4 ms·

>They do that because it’s cheaper that way for them, and majority of users don’t complain. How is it in any way cheaper for them? You can't buy a network swi

by tw04 6y ago

>They do that because it’s cheaper that way for them, and majority of users don’t complain. How is it in any way cheaper for them? You can't buy a network switch or router that's anything but symmetrical up/down. Comcast itself doesn't pay transit bandwidth, they strangled all the backbone providers out of existence and acquired them, they're all straight peering agreements, with some smaller players paying them. This is 100% a scheme to prevent consumers from hosting servers and video feeds.

jcrawfordor 6y ago
The entirety of the equipment used by Comcast for cable internet delivery (modems and CMTS) are built for non-symmetric service because it is designed into the standard. Further, most cable carriers face technical constraints that prevent them rolling out service much faster than DOCSIS2.0 to customers (20mbps up) while downstream upgrades are much easier. The design of the cable system is fundamentally asymmetric, cable having formerly been a broadcast medium, and so upstream improvements generally require complete replacement of equipment in the field.
- tw04 6y ago
  None of that is applicable to OP. He has gig down, that's DOCSIS 3.1 with a 200Mbit upload limit. Comcast is artificially limited upload speeds, it would cost them absolutely nothing to raise his upload to 200Mbit - the Modem and CMTS HAVE to support it in order to be DOCSIS 3.1 compliant. Ignoring the fact I don't think ANY of comcast's network is DOCSIS 2.0 and hasn't been for nearly a decade.
  - jcrawfordor 6y ago
    As I have discussed elsewhere, Comcast faces significant constraints on improving upstream speed, not the least of which is the distribution amplifiers in many markets which only permit 2 or 3 channels upstream and without sufficient link quality for OFDM. The technical system is complex and the constraints are typically distribution amplifiers and other outside plant, not modem or CMTS, which are indeed typically capable of 1gbps upstream. Doing so requires up to eight OFDM channels, however.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      It's shocking to me how many people come up with elaborate theories about regulatory capture that don't even know the basics of how cable systems work.
      - lemonberry 6y ago
        Are you really shocked? I feel like many people regularly come up with elaborate theories about things they don't really understand. I'm sure I do it. Though it's something I'd like to minimize. It's definitely not always clear to me which of my opinions are really based on as complete a set of facts as I'd like them to be.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Comcast also does things to prevent their customers from being able to get fiber: https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/1/8530403/chattanooga-comcast-fcc-high-speed-internet-gigabit https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/1/8530403/chattanooga-comcas...
      - stefan_ 6y ago
        It's a post-hoc rationalization. You can't exactly point at a standard you yourself designed to explain why you are unable to do something. It's the old "it was a software problem", 30 years running now. What's shocking to me is how many tech people acquiesce to this "sorry, it's just the software/hardware" of what was very obviously a deliberate design choice.
        rayiner 6y ago
        The standard, and what set of options you can use from the standard, reflects physical equipment that was put in the ground and incrementally upgraded over decades. Sure in a sense the asymmetry is a “deliberate design choice.” But it’s a design choice that was made when cable broadband was first developed starting with cable TV networks that had little and sometimes no uplink capability. Hackers of all people should be able to understand the challenges posed by the old design decisions in big complex systems.
- the_only_law 6y ago
  From what I've read the design of asymmetric broadband speeds has been a design feature since DSL technologies (does that count as broadband?)
Hikikomori 6y ago
GPON that is widely used for ftth in the us is not symmetrical, its a lot like cable in how it works.

by tw04 6y ago

jcrawfordor 6y ago

The entirety of the equipment used by Comcast for cable internet delivery (modems and CMTS) are built for non-symmetric service because it is designed into the standard. Further, most cable carriers face technical constraints that prevent them rolling out service much faster than DOCSIS2.0 to customers (20mbps up) while downstream upgrades are much easier. The design of the cable system is fundamentally asymmetric, cable having formerly been a broadcast medium, and so upstream improvements generally require complete replacement of equipment in the field.

tw04 6y ago
None of that is applicable to OP. He has gig down, that's DOCSIS 3.1 with a 200Mbit upload limit. Comcast is artificially limited upload speeds, it would cost them absolutely nothing to raise his upload to 200Mbit - the Modem and CMTS HAVE to support it in order to be DOCSIS 3.1 compliant. Ignoring the fact I don't think ANY of comcast's network is DOCSIS 2.0 and hasn't been for nearly a decade.
- jcrawfordor 6y ago
  As I have discussed elsewhere, Comcast faces significant constraints on improving upstream speed, not the least of which is the distribution amplifiers in many markets which only permit 2 or 3 channels upstream and without sufficient link quality for OFDM. The technical system is complex and the constraints are typically distribution amplifiers and other outside plant, not modem or CMTS, which are indeed typically capable of 1gbps upstream. Doing so requires up to eight OFDM channels, however.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    It's shocking to me how many people come up with elaborate theories about regulatory capture that don't even know the basics of how cable systems work.
    - lemonberry 6y ago
      Are you really shocked? I feel like many people regularly come up with elaborate theories about things they don't really understand. I'm sure I do it. Though it's something I'd like to minimize. It's definitely not always clear to me which of my opinions are really based on as complete a set of facts as I'd like them to be.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Comcast also does things to prevent their customers from being able to get fiber: https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/1/8530403/chattanooga-comcast-fcc-high-speed-internet-gigabit https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/1/8530403/chattanooga-comcas...
    - stefan_ 6y ago
      It's a post-hoc rationalization. You can't exactly point at a standard you yourself designed to explain why you are unable to do something. It's the old "it was a software problem", 30 years running now. What's shocking to me is how many tech people acquiesce to this "sorry, it's just the software/hardware" of what was very obviously a deliberate design choice.
      - rayiner 6y ago
        The standard, and what set of options you can use from the standard, reflects physical equipment that was put in the ground and incrementally upgraded over decades. Sure in a sense the asymmetry is a “deliberate design choice.” But it’s a design choice that was made when cable broadband was first developed starting with cable TV networks that had little and sometimes no uplink capability. Hackers of all people should be able to understand the challenges posed by the old design decisions in big complex systems.
the_only_law 6y ago
From what I've read the design of asymmetric broadband speeds has been a design feature since DSL technologies (does that count as broadband?)

Hikikomori 6y ago

GPON that is widely used for ftth in the us is not symmetrical, its a lot like cable in how it works.