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Third richest man in China lives on $20 a day, eats same meals as workers
- wildmXranat 15y agoWhen I was a 16 year old, my uncle hired me part-time to help him out with his stone and tile installation contracting business. As a regular grunt, I was happy to get that $10/hour and couldn't wait to spend it every couple of weeks just after getting the cheque. Eventually, I met the owner of the shop that gave the contracts out to businesses like my uncle's and found out that he rakes in millions of $s annually. Now, this elderly gentleman walked around in very worn-out gardener overalls, talked to everyone on site, got to know each one of us personally, offered help, ate with us and drove a beat-up 1980s Benz. He was the first millionaire I met and quite honestly a model for a humble businessman. My saving habits changed soon after that.
- sudont 15y agoBoth of the janitors in my high school (small town) were two of the most prominent businessmen in town. One was worth half a million from an HVAC business, the other had owned three stores, a bar and a bowling alley before retiring to the janitorial position. The speech at our graduation was given by our janitor!
- username3 15y ago...in China?
- edge17 15y agoso why be a janitor, of all things? certainly it wasn't for the job?
- sudont 15y agoIt was to give back to the community.
- thisisblurry 15y agoPerhaps to keep themselves busy?
- daniel-cussen 15y agoRockefeller also was a janitor at his Baptist church. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller#Beliefs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller#Beliefs
- DanI-S 15y agoI've been a janitor, and it's not such a bad job at all.
- lotharbot 15y agoAfter grad school, my wife took a short-term minimum wage job in a thrift store. One of her coworkers, who had been there for years, was an older lady from India who (along with her husband) owned several houses and factories, after a life of thrift and savings and careful investment. She sorted thrift store donations because she liked it.
- itgoon 15y agoThe first millionaire I met drove a beat up white Ford Pinto, and used it to pick up two bales of hay a week - for his prize-winning Arabian show horse. From him I learned to be extravagant about my passions, and parsimonious with everything else.
- rdtsc 15y agoJust curious, how did he end up spening all that money? Did he go on extended vacations? Did he eventually buy a large house? Was he just working mainly so his family, children, extended family could have a better life? I guess I understand that saving and living frugaly is in generally something that is desirable, but what is the point of keep saving, if one is not really planning on using it. It then might as well be a number on a bank statement, or a wad of green paper under the mattrass. One can accumulate all that, then die from over-exhaustion from accumulating it, then it might as well never existed as far as that particular person is concerned, if they never really got to enjoy it (Now perhaps some derive a large enjoyment just from the process of accumulation and knowing they have access to large sums of money, it is just what makes them happy, but that sounds a little to strange to me).
- HeyLaughingBoy 15y agoThink of it this way. Imagine you have more money that you will ever spend in your entire life. You've bought everything you want, go anywhere you want, etc. and still have billions left over. Is this really any different from having a $1M in the bank, being perfectly happy, and not spending any of it? In both cases you have more than you need and you're happy. For many people saving and living frugally isn't a means to an end, it is the end. It's how they like to live their life, and being able to do so while keeping the bills paid makes them blissfully happy. That there may be millions of unused $$$ in the bank is irrelevant to them.
- wildmXranat 15y agoI don't know how he spent his money, but he did have a great home and could afford to have his family live there comfortably. He hired quite a lot of his family members, and I remember some of them along with other workers made good salary. What I gathered and what I heard from others that have been associated with this company, is that workers were happy and quality of work was above average for this type of industry. As a young lad, it showed me that the employee/employer dependance is a two way street, which is not always the case in many companies. Thing that tied it all together seemed to be a good work ethic and not necessarily working harder to exhaustion.
- 15y ago
- trungonnews 15y agoI don't think this is something to be admired. Does he really believe that he can bring his money to the grave or something?
- roel_v 15y agoI guess the point is that he doesn't care about the money. I don't think he's purposely denying himself things he could afford but doesn't buy so that he can add another 1000$ to his bank account.
- poutine 15y agoIf he didn't care about money then why wouldn't he distribute it to his employees in some sort of profit sharing? Noted he's a philanthropist, but he's also the 3rd richest so he's keeping a hell of a lot of the money. There's nothing noble here, just greed in a different form.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- kbutler 15y ago> Noted he's a philanthropist ... > There's nothing noble here shrug
- sliverstorm 15y agoYou're the one who sounds greedy, expecting him to give his money to his employees for no particular reason.
- rglullis 15y agoYou are measuring others by your own standards. Perhaps he doesn't care about how much he consumes, but rather at how much he produces. It's not about what one is taking to the grave; it's about what one is leaving.
- scarmig 15y agoWell, there are a couple different possibilities here. One would be for him to buy things for himself--this would shift consumption to luxury goods. Another would be to give them to his workers, which shifts consumption to everyday essentials (and, increasingly, middle class goods). What he's done is shift money toward capital investment, which shifts consumption C from the present to (1+x)C consumption sometime in the future. I'm not sure that's a bad thing--it's all about the time discount rate you're using in evaluating the value of economic decisions. Whose consumption is also relevant here, but a century from now the benefits of his forsaking consumption will be fairly diffused.
- suprgeek 15y ago"My only exercise is doing market research... my only hobbies are smoking and drinking tea" -Extremely Unhealthy to boot. If you are a billionaire and still cannot afford the time to take care of your health, what is the point of working so hard? Let us NOT hold this guy up as some sort of paragon of hard work to be emulated.
- thebooktocome 15y agoSmoking in China isn't a consequence of "not being able to afford the time to take care of your health." Admittedly that's no reason not to exercise. There are plenty of honorable things about this guy. Why pick out the one negative thing?
- Hisoka 15y agoI agree, noone is perfect, but there's clearly something admirable we can learn from this guy.
- oscardelben 15y agoYou may want to investigate what the halo effect is about. It's not very rational to judge a man as a whole from just one trait. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect
- suprgeek 15y agoSure, but is that not what this story is doing anyway? Holding the frugality of a rich man as a great virtue and writing an article is indeed judging him on one trait
- oscardelben 15y agoI think that you can be interesting enough to be worth an article even though you may have some other weak trait. All of us have some. In this specific case I can assure you that smoking is seen differently in various countries. For example when I visited the US I was astonished to see that smoking was prohibited near most buildings, etc, which is totally a good thing, it's just not like that everywhere else.
- pnathan 15y agoI always admire rich men who do not live lavishly. There are more important things than shiny things, and it is heartening to see people who know that, regardless of which culture they come from.
- c2 15y agoAnd the sad truth is the majority of "shiny things" are sold to people living vastly beyond their means trying to pretend to live like these wealthy people.
- hugh3 15y agoI'd be extremely interested to see actual statistics on these things, if only they were available. Even more interesting would be to see how it breaks down brand by brand. Frinstance I'm guessing that the majority of the watches made by certain well-marketed and expensive watch manufacturers (I shan't name any names lest someone glance at their own wrist and feel the need to make an impassioned defence) are bought by people who really can't afford to spend that much on a watch. On the other hand, there are watches in the same price range which are probably only getting bought by people who can afford them, and most of 'em are probably brands that most people have never even heard of.
- Glide 15y agoI would definitely take a look at "The Millionaire Next Door". It contains some of the statistics that you're looking for. That book really made me evaluate what I am spending money on.
- hugh3 15y agoI actually did read that book (I bought it on sale, natch). But the whole thing is seriously flawed, because all his statistics are based only on the small fraction of millionaires whom he actually interviewed, who are surely not a random sampling of all millionaires.
- 15y ago
- asciilifeform 15y agoA Marie Antoinette.
- mikecane 15y agoI'm just curious and not out to cast aspersions on him because I liked that profile very much, but is $20/day more than most Chinese workers make? I have no idea, so am just asking.
- nowarninglabel 15y agoThe figure has varied fairly wildly over the last decade, so I think it would be hard to pin down an accurate number. The average seems to be about $100-200/month. I don't think that makes his actions any less humble though. You should take note though that the focus here is on factory workers, whereas the average Chinese wage for all Chinese workers would be lower.
- mikecane 15y ago>>>I don't think that makes his actions any less humble though. Nor do I. Just wondering.
- riams 15y agoActually, Hangzhou is a very rich city by Chinese standards due to their entrepreneurial culture. Despite "only" having 2 million inhabitants, LV sells the most items in Hangzhou compared to all other Chinese cities. Also, their more central streets are lined with luxury car shops. $20/day does not seem too unreasonable for local Hangzhounese.
- byw 15y agoAccording to wikipedia, the city of Hangzhou, where his company is based, has per capita GDP of $14,972 USD. 14,972 / 12 / 20 = 62.83. A very rough figure, but gives some general idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangzhou http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangzhou [edit] 2009 figure, probably higher now.
- code_duck 15y agoThis is what normal people do. The real question is why certain wealthy people think they need to throw away the money that they extract from consumers and employees on things like cocaine, vacation houses and prostitutes.
- jherdman 15y agoTheir motivations, quite simply, are different than yours.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- code_duck 15y agoIt's not about my motivations - I'm commenting about the question the article asks. This guy should not be held up as abnormal in some way - people like Larry Ellison should. While quite common, obsession with material wealth and the drive to acquire it beyond reason is a perverse state, not healthy or natural.
- danneu 15y agoI'd actually consider obsession with acquisition and consumption part of the human state.
- 15y ago
- Shenglong 15y agoIt's not really unusual for the older generation to spend more conservatively, even when they're extraordinarily rich. USD/CNY is at 6.44 (or so), and $20 ~= 130 RMB. When I was in China, I easily survived on about 30-40 RMB/day... not because I couldn't afford it, but good tasting food is usually from the cheap street shops. I've had my share of golden-utensil $20,000 RMB meals, and they're nothing special in terms of taste. I'm wondering if this is cultural traditionalism or personal dedication. On the other end of the spectrum, a lot of the Chinese have been trying to copy western capitalism in spending. The tea comment is silly. Great Chinese teas are difficult to steep. My favorite kind of Oolong (category) tea for example, will taste disgusting if the steeping temperature of the water is off by even 10 degrees, or the steeping time is extended for even 3 seconds. Maybe he hasn't treated himself to good teas!
- Dove 15y agoI do agree that the tea comment is silly. Saying you like to drink Lipton tea is like saying your favorite place to eat is Panda Express. To each his own, I suppose, but it sounds awfully silly to praise the imitation when you live in China. You did catch my curiosity with this, though: Great Chinese teas are difficult to steep. My favorite kind of Oolong (category) tea for example, will taste disgusting if the steeping temperature of the water is off by even 10 degrees, or the steeping time is extended for even 3 seconds. Really! I've had that experience with Japanese greens. My favorite (Kagoshima Sencha Yutaka Midori from o-cha.com) goes from sweet to bitter with about those tolerences -- three seconds and ten degrees. The Chinese teas in general, and even oolongs in particular, though, I've found to be awfully forgiving. They seem pretty happy with approximately boiling water and 30 - 60 seconds on a first steep. I've actually found that to be sort of the charm of them; you can fly by the seat of your pants on the brewing, and wind up with a fair bit of variety in the product. My favorites (with these characteristics) are Bai Hao ("Oriental Beauty") and teaspring.com's Wu Yi Yan Cha Bing. What are you drinking that's so touchy?
- epochwolf 15y agoI've found Chinese Oolongs to be insanely easy to brew if you use a temperature controlled kettle and set a timer. English black teas are even easier. I had an Earl Grey last night that survived being forgotten for 10 minutes while I was chatting. Side note: I've managed to duplicate the flavor of regular lipton by brewing Bai Hao for about an hour and then reheating it in a microwave. (I didn't brew it that long on purpose.)
- thisisblurry 15y agoOn a very basic level, he isn't all that different from Warren Buffet, who is widely known to live quite frugally given his worth.
- phaedon 15y ago"He said hard work was the key to the poor lifting themselves out of poverty. If you give money to the poor "they just spend it," he told me." This is a key observation from a man who clearly practices what he preaches.
- BadassFractal 15y agoYou could say that this is not necessarily true, even though we all wish it was. There's an endless supply of people out there who work really really hard and yet they never become billionaires, in fact they might be living at poverty levels. It's kind of a cool myth, but social mobility doesn't quite work that way.
- code_duck 15y agoI see two separate assertions : one, that hard work lifts you out of poverty. Two, handouts don't result in lasting changes in someone's economic status. I agree with you on the first. As for the second, that seems true enough: few welfare recipients have their lives transformed by the payments.
- archgoon 15y ago"The two companies merged in 1991 after a fierce media campaign led by the employees of the canning company, who accused him of being a capitalist." Well... it seems to have been a valid 'criticism'. Does anyone know if this sort of attack still happens in China? I'd be amused if it did at the very least.
- felipe 15y ago"being a capitalist" is a catch-all accusation used when employers are trying to remove benefits from employees. It's the same as calling someone "greedy" in the west. There is still tons of protests and criticisms led by employees in China for better working conditions. Also, keep in mind that since the 50s the system took care of factory workers, from food and housing and even authorizing marriages! And then, out of a sudden the capitalist reforms came and they were all threw in this competitive market economy without any benefits. The term "being a capitalist" includes all these nuances and grievances. Also, note that China today is NOT this extreme-capitalistic country that people think. The big enterprises (telecom, oil, etc...) are open and competitive, but most of the shares are actually owned by the government. In fact, when they describe "Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics" I believe it is not a buzzword (like many believe) but really a meaningful description. It seems that they actually created something different.
- yaix 15y agoThe last sentense caught my attention: "While Walmart and Carrefours are pulling out of Chinese operations, [...]" Walmart and Carrefour "pulling out"??! Both are openening new stores at an amazing speed, undless that changed in the past year. Does anybody know more about this or have a link?
- yardie 15y agoI read an article in the Economist, according to them Walmart is opening stores throughout Asia in accordance to Asian lifestyles. Carrefour, who was in the region first, is scaling back and selling off stores because they aren't as profitable as they thought. Part of this is corporate culture, Carrefour (big French company) wanted to run its business in the Carrefour way, all decisions are done in Europe. Walmart chose the franchise model, the store is designed and decorated like a giant chinese market, carries more local products (fruits, veg, meats, etc.) and buying decisions are made per store.
- yaix 15y agoThanks. I ll try to find it on the Economist site. Living in China, I don't see much difference between Walmart and Carrefour supermarkets, both in decoration and in products, even compared with Chinese chains like Wu-Mei or Lianhua. They all have fresh meats (life frogs and turtles) and fish (a wall of water tanks with life fish), etc.