4 ms·

I gotta say I have a love-hate thing with Turbotax. I hate the company and its influence peddling, lobbying, and near monopoly status, but Turbotax itself is a

by api 6y ago

I gotta say I have a love-hate thing with Turbotax. I hate the company and its influence peddling, lobbying, and near monopoly status, but Turbotax itself is a very well designed product with a great intuitive experience that has done a great job filing taxes. So it's a rare case of a sleazy state-sanctioned (via refusal to simplify the tax code) monopoly with a decent product. Usually such monopolies have complete shit products because they don't need to care.

breck 6y ago
TurboTax works great, until things get a little too complicated, and it quickly becomes terrible. What is needed is a strongly typed DSL where you can copy and paste your entire tax return as a single text document/spreadsheet.
- isaacimagine 6y ago
  If all you have is a hammer...
  - breck 6y ago
    If all you have is binary notation...
- numbsafari 6y ago
  TurboTax is so full of dark patterns to get you upsold into needless add-ons, I don't think you can say it really "works great". It's intentionally obtuse and confusing for something that should be simple and straightforward for 80% of the population.
  - lancesells 6y ago
    I pay for a stand-alone and the only upsell I can recall seeing over and over again is "audit protection" for ~$59 or so. Is the free version filled with add-ons?
    - d1zzy 6y ago
      And the state efile (but since there's the "free" alternative to print out forms and mail in that's not a big deal, and it's relatively cheap anyway). I've also always used the desktop/standalone version, great time saving compared to doing it on my own.
ortusdux 6y ago
The issue is that they are so slick that you don't even notice the dark patterns that funnel you into needlessly spending money.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  I buy the standalone version every year. I am not sure what dark patterns are in that version that you are talking about.
  - cratermoon 6y ago
    You don't notice the dark patterns because they are dark. Are you sure you haven't paid TurboTax for an upsell when they have a free or cheaper alternative they never mention?
  - ortusdux 6y ago
    Reply All ep 144: Dark Pattern https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/6nhgol https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/6nhgol
JKCalhoun 6y ago
Before Turbo Tax I sheepishly headed down to H&R Block and got reamed. Besides understanding my taxes (and taxes in general) better, I almost enjoy the process using Turbo Tax. If there is a better Turbo Tax product out there, it would have to be very compelling to get me to switch. Besides familiarity with Turbo Tax, it pulls in last years data and saves me the more tedious steps. Like you though I feel like I am locked in at this point.
- sumtechguy 6y ago
  H&R has a similar desktop product. The prices are in the same range and the lockin feels the same. Not sure what I am locked into though both products never find my W2s correctly anyway and import my stock divs wrong.
mattwad 6y ago
Try freetaxusa.com. Its interface is just as easy but it's free.
bradstewart 6y ago
That's odd, I consistently have problems with it. It's fine if you add some W2s and work straight through to filing. But navigating back and forth through different sections never behaves the way I'd expect. Things like brokerage transaction imports were simply broken while I was trying to file last year (which, incidentally, is the only reason I pay for it). And their "UIs" for dealing with forms like K1s are often more confusing (to me at least) than the underlying IRS form.
siliconc0w 6y ago
Hard disagree, I've had numerous problems with their app and they constantly try to upsell you even after extracting their egregious yearly fees. There has been no innovation or even noticeable change to their product in years.
- twox2 6y ago
  Turbotax sucks ass unless you have a simple situation with a w2 and maybe a couple of 1099s, beyond that it's a nightmare to use (for me).
- d1zzy 6y ago
  I've been using TurboTax desktop version (the Premium edition) for 10+ years and never ran into any issues (and I have relatively complex income situation) except for one bug they have always had about incorrectly summing up the mortgage loan amounts of the same loan that you refinance or transfer in the same year (so it ends up looking as if you had 2 loans that year and consequently can miss out on large deductions). But this is relatively easy to observe and workaround. Compared to spending weeks doing my own taxes (I did them for 3 years) it's a total bliss. I feel that a lot of people complaining about TurboTax upselling or anything like that are attempting to use the online version. I am very much opposed to giving some online site all my tax information so I will always keep using the desktop version for as long as I can. It includes 5 free federal e-filins and have to pay extra (about $30) for state filing (but can always just print out the filled forms and mail them in if you don't want to). And when I did the taxes on my own I had to print and mail them anyways.
- api 6y ago
  Maybe I am comparing it to typical accounting software, which usually has shockingly bad UI/UX.
tallanvor 6y ago
Unfortunately TurboTax falls flat if you have a complex return. They "support" forms 1116 and 2555, but it's clear that they didn't put any real time into making sure they do the calculations correctly. Long story short, I got a check from the IRS for almost $1000 because TurboTax computed what I owed incorrectly.
PascLeRasc 6y ago
Turbotax’s website commits all the web sins we condemn regularly on here. They hijack the back button, change your scrolling, don’t allow tab-spacebar-enter navigation, don’t allow pasting in some fields, and load buttons on a fixed resolution so you can’t see everything if you aren’t on a hires monitor. It’s really not a good product.

by api 6y ago

breck 6y ago

TurboTax works great, until things get a little too complicated, and it quickly becomes terrible. What is needed is a strongly typed DSL where you can copy and paste your entire tax return as a single text document/spreadsheet.

isaacimagine 6y ago
If all you have is a hammer...
- breck 6y ago
  If all you have is binary notation...
numbsafari 6y ago
TurboTax is so full of dark patterns to get you upsold into needless add-ons, I don't think you can say it really "works great". It's intentionally obtuse and confusing for something that should be simple and straightforward for 80% of the population.
- lancesells 6y ago
  I pay for a stand-alone and the only upsell I can recall seeing over and over again is "audit protection" for ~$59 or so. Is the free version filled with add-ons?
  - d1zzy 6y ago
    And the state efile (but since there's the "free" alternative to print out forms and mail in that's not a big deal, and it's relatively cheap anyway). I've also always used the desktop/standalone version, great time saving compared to doing it on my own.

ortusdux 6y ago

The issue is that they are so slick that you don't even notice the dark patterns that funnel you into needlessly spending money.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
I buy the standalone version every year. I am not sure what dark patterns are in that version that you are talking about.
- cratermoon 6y ago
  You don't notice the dark patterns because they are dark. Are you sure you haven't paid TurboTax for an upsell when they have a free or cheaper alternative they never mention?
- ortusdux 6y ago
  Reply All ep 144: Dark Pattern https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/6nhgol https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/6nhgol

JKCalhoun 6y ago

Before Turbo Tax I sheepishly headed down to H&R Block and got reamed. Besides understanding my taxes (and taxes in general) better, I almost enjoy the process using Turbo Tax. If there is a better Turbo Tax product out there, it would have to be very compelling to get me to switch. Besides familiarity with Turbo Tax, it pulls in last years data and saves me the more tedious steps. Like you though I feel like I am locked in at this point.

sumtechguy 6y ago
H&R has a similar desktop product. The prices are in the same range and the lockin feels the same. Not sure what I am locked into though both products never find my W2s correctly anyway and import my stock divs wrong.

mattwad 6y ago

Try freetaxusa.com. Its interface is just as easy but it's free.

bradstewart 6y ago

That's odd, I consistently have problems with it. It's fine if you add some W2s and work straight through to filing. But navigating back and forth through different sections never behaves the way I'd expect. Things like brokerage transaction imports were simply broken while I was trying to file last year (which, incidentally, is the only reason I pay for it). And their "UIs" for dealing with forms like K1s are often more confusing (to me at least) than the underlying IRS form.

siliconc0w 6y ago

Hard disagree, I've had numerous problems with their app and they constantly try to upsell you even after extracting their egregious yearly fees. There has been no innovation or even noticeable change to their product in years.

twox2 6y ago
Turbotax sucks ass unless you have a simple situation with a w2 and maybe a couple of 1099s, beyond that it's a nightmare to use (for me).
d1zzy 6y ago
I've been using TurboTax desktop version (the Premium edition) for 10+ years and never ran into any issues (and I have relatively complex income situation) except for one bug they have always had about incorrectly summing up the mortgage loan amounts of the same loan that you refinance or transfer in the same year (so it ends up looking as if you had 2 loans that year and consequently can miss out on large deductions). But this is relatively easy to observe and workaround. Compared to spending weeks doing my own taxes (I did them for 3 years) it's a total bliss. I feel that a lot of people complaining about TurboTax upselling or anything like that are attempting to use the online version. I am very much opposed to giving some online site all my tax information so I will always keep using the desktop version for as long as I can. It includes 5 free federal e-filins and have to pay extra (about $30) for state filing (but can always just print out the filled forms and mail them in if you don't want to). And when I did the taxes on my own I had to print and mail them anyways.
api 6y ago
Maybe I am comparing it to typical accounting software, which usually has shockingly bad UI/UX.

tallanvor 6y ago

Unfortunately TurboTax falls flat if you have a complex return. They "support" forms 1116 and 2555, but it's clear that they didn't put any real time into making sure they do the calculations correctly. Long story short, I got a check from the IRS for almost $1000 because TurboTax computed what I owed incorrectly.

PascLeRasc 6y ago

Turbotax’s website commits all the web sins we condemn regularly on here. They hijack the back button, change your scrolling, don’t allow tab-spacebar-enter navigation, don’t allow pasting in some fields, and load buttons on a fixed resolution so you can’t see everything if you aren’t on a hires monitor. It’s really not a good product.