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Just replying to your last point: sugar and carbohydrates make you fat more than anything else. To fix that, most successful diets rely on increasing the ratio

Just replying to your last point: sugar and carbohydrates make you fat more than anything else. To fix that, most successful diets rely on increasing the ratio of protein you eat (wether it's fish, meat or poultry). It gets you to the same satiety but eating less carbs, and you lose weight. Now enter plant based / animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat / fish / chicken? If you're some amazing diet expert, I have no doubt you can figure out a way to get to satiety without relying on carbs. But most people, what are they gonna do? Just get two more slices of bread, or 50% more pasta. If you strictly oppose a meat only diet VS a plant only diet, people will be leaner on the first one.

onebot 6y ago
Eating more calories than you burn make you overweight. Not the type of calorie. This has been proven (wish I could find the research paper) and was funded by Gary Taubes' research group. Refined sugar and carbs are high in calories and low in nutrients. If you eat 2000 (or appropriate for you expenditure) calories of brocoli, you ain't getting overweight. Additionally, most people are addicted to sugar and refined carbs. Half the problem with diets is getting over that. It is likely the problem defined as satiety--but really just cravings. We are just starting to get more Randomized Controlled Clinical Trials on diets and such. Will never be perfect, but there is just not enough highly controlled research as it is very hard to implement. But I think with keto, carnivore, vegan, paleo, all fighting to claim to be most healthiest diet, there are folks starting to put money into researching them on equal footing. So we will see. I think to summarize Michael Pollan, eat whole food, not too much and mostly plants is probably a good bet on healthy diet.
- wincy 6y ago
  I’ve had terrible gastrointestinal issues for years that had been getting worse and worse, and after so many doctors telling me to just take PPI at 34 (which increase risk of dementia!), I’ve finally dropped 40 pounds by eating whole foods, no grains, mostly meat, as much as I want. I am completely off all antacid medications and blood pressure medicines. It turns out a huge amount of the depression and anxiety I’ve experienced over the years was food related. I’ll eat a salad every few days, but try to make most of my fat intake saturated. I was CONSTANTLY inflamed before, wheat was a major problem. Some people can’t wait for the data to come in, they’re suffering now, especially when special interest groups that want people to be vegetarian muddy the waters with agenda studies. All I can trust is how I feel personally eating different ways, and eating whole cuts of meat is keeping me from vomiting up my stomach acid in the middle of the night as my “completely normal stomach” (according to my doctor) tries to digest my trachea.
  - cageface 6y ago
    You might have a disrupted gut microbiome. People that report the kind of results you describe often have gut flora that are way out of whack. You might want to look into a SIBO test because in the long run a diet very high in meat is also inflammatory and not ideal.
- 542354234235 6y ago
  >Eating more calories than you burn make you overweight. Not the type of calorie. This has been proven (wish I could find the research paper) and was funded by Gary Taubes' research group. This article [1] is a good writeup of the study (with the original study linked) and does a very good job at contextualizing the results and limitations, alternative viewpoints, and criticisms. My takeaway is, while a very interesting pilot study, the small sample size, lack of a control group, lack of an alternative group that ate the two diets in opposite order, possible confounding factors including exercise while outside the metabolic chamber, etc. don’t make this study any kind of smoking gun. [1] https://www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/dietnutrition/59012 https://www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/dietnutrition/59012
jimbokun 6y ago
> Now enter plant based / animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat / fish / chicken? Big salads? Fiber tends to make you feel full.
- marlowe221 6y ago
  Legumes too. Lots of traditional diets around the world have at least one kind of bean at their foundation.
dqv 6y ago
>Now enter plant based / animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat / fish / chicken? There was a time when animal products were a lot more expensive and scarce. When you add more foods with water in them (provided you're not overloading those foods with fat and oils) you end up feeling more satiated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRrD58Ah3Q&t=967s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRrD58Ah3Q&t=967s
brigandish 6y ago
> Now enter plant based / animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat / fish / chicken? I thought vegetarians were famous for eating lots of beans and tofu. Is this no longer part of the stereotype?
- dqv 6y ago
  The problem is that the most extreme plant-based dieters are the ones who get popular. So a vegan in popular culture's eyes is someone who eats 50 bananas a day.
gwd 6y ago
> To fix that, most successful diets rely on increasing the ratio of protein you eat (wether it's fish, meat or poultry). It gets you to the same satiety but eating less carbs, and you lose weight. Beans like chickpeas and lentils, or grains like quinoa, have some carbs, but a lot more fiber. Cook them with a solid dose of olive oil and they're both healthy and filling. Or use coconut oil, which has more saturated fat (making it taste a bit better but be potentially a bit less healthy). A few years ago my wife wanted to try the "plant-based" diet. I told her I don't care what I eat as long as it tastes OK, fills me up, and has enough protein. We did it for a month, and I never had any problems feeling full, and I definitely didn't load up on pasta. In the end she decided full plant-based wasn't for her, but we still end up cooking some of the plant-based recipes we picked up from that time few times a week. It's the recipe / workflow thing that's really the issue. You can't just eat what you were eating before but without meat, and making imitation meat things is generally a recipe for disappointment. Making a good-tasting meal with beans or grains takes a shift in mindset and a shift in equipment if you're used to making food with meat. But once you get it figured out, it's fine.
cageface 6y ago
Fat has 9 calories per gram. Carbohydrates and protein have 4. The problem is that we strip all the fiber away from the carbs we eat and this causes all kind of problems including making them less satiating. Getting fat eating whole carbs is quite difficult. Refined carbs and sugar are bad but the idea that all carbs are bad is simplistic and wrong. Legumes in particular are extremely filling: https://www.azumio.com/blog/nutrition/beans-skinny-food https://www.azumio.com/blog/nutrition/beans-skinny-food

onebot 6y ago

Eating more calories than you burn make you overweight. Not the type of calorie. This has been proven (wish I could find the research paper) and was funded by Gary Taubes' research group. Refined sugar and carbs are high in calories and low in nutrients. If you eat 2000 (or appropriate for you expenditure) calories of brocoli, you ain't getting overweight. Additionally, most people are addicted to sugar and refined carbs. Half the problem with diets is getting over that. It is likely the problem defined as satiety--but really just cravings. We are just starting to get more Randomized Controlled Clinical Trials on diets and such. Will never be perfect, but there is just not enough highly controlled research as it is very hard to implement. But I think with keto, carnivore, vegan, paleo, all fighting to claim to be most healthiest diet, there are folks starting to put money into researching them on equal footing. So we will see. I think to summarize Michael Pollan, eat whole food, not too much and mostly plants is probably a good bet on healthy diet.

wincy 6y ago
I’ve had terrible gastrointestinal issues for years that had been getting worse and worse, and after so many doctors telling me to just take PPI at 34 (which increase risk of dementia!), I’ve finally dropped 40 pounds by eating whole foods, no grains, mostly meat, as much as I want. I am completely off all antacid medications and blood pressure medicines. It turns out a huge amount of the depression and anxiety I’ve experienced over the years was food related. I’ll eat a salad every few days, but try to make most of my fat intake saturated. I was CONSTANTLY inflamed before, wheat was a major problem. Some people can’t wait for the data to come in, they’re suffering now, especially when special interest groups that want people to be vegetarian muddy the waters with agenda studies. All I can trust is how I feel personally eating different ways, and eating whole cuts of meat is keeping me from vomiting up my stomach acid in the middle of the night as my “completely normal stomach” (according to my doctor) tries to digest my trachea.
- cageface 6y ago
  You might have a disrupted gut microbiome. People that report the kind of results you describe often have gut flora that are way out of whack. You might want to look into a SIBO test because in the long run a diet very high in meat is also inflammatory and not ideal.
542354234235 6y ago
>Eating more calories than you burn make you overweight. Not the type of calorie. This has been proven (wish I could find the research paper) and was funded by Gary Taubes' research group. This article [1] is a good writeup of the study (with the original study linked) and does a very good job at contextualizing the results and limitations, alternative viewpoints, and criticisms. My takeaway is, while a very interesting pilot study, the small sample size, lack of a control group, lack of an alternative group that ate the two diets in opposite order, possible confounding factors including exercise while outside the metabolic chamber, etc. don’t make this study any kind of smoking gun. [1] https://www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/dietnutrition/59012 https://www.medpagetoday.com/primarycare/dietnutrition/59012

jimbokun 6y ago

> Now enter plant based / animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat / fish / chicken? Big salads? Fiber tends to make you feel full.

marlowe221 6y ago
Legumes too. Lots of traditional diets around the world have at least one kind of bean at their foundation.

dqv 6y ago

>Now enter plant based / animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat / fish / chicken? There was a time when animal products were a lot more expensive and scarce. When you add more foods with water in them (provided you're not overloading those foods with fat and oils) you end up feeling more satiated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRrD58Ah3Q&t=967s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpRrD58Ah3Q&t=967s

brigandish 6y ago

> Now enter plant based / animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat / fish / chicken? I thought vegetarians were famous for eating lots of beans and tofu. Is this no longer part of the stereotype?

dqv 6y ago
The problem is that the most extreme plant-based dieters are the ones who get popular. So a vegan in popular culture's eyes is someone who eats 50 bananas a day.

gwd 6y ago

> To fix that, most successful diets rely on increasing the ratio of protein you eat (wether it's fish, meat or poultry). It gets you to the same satiety but eating less carbs, and you lose weight. Beans like chickpeas and lentils, or grains like quinoa, have some carbs, but a lot more fiber. Cook them with a solid dose of olive oil and they're both healthy and filling. Or use coconut oil, which has more saturated fat (making it taste a bit better but be potentially a bit less healthy). A few years ago my wife wanted to try the "plant-based" diet. I told her I don't care what I eat as long as it tastes OK, fills me up, and has enough protein. We did it for a month, and I never had any problems feeling full, and I definitely didn't load up on pasta. In the end she decided full plant-based wasn't for her, but we still end up cooking some of the plant-based recipes we picked up from that time few times a week. It's the recipe / workflow thing that's really the issue. You can't just eat what you were eating before but without meat, and making imitation meat things is generally a recipe for disappointment. Making a good-tasting meal with beans or grains takes a shift in mindset and a shift in equipment if you're used to making food with meat. But once you get it figured out, it's fine.

cageface 6y ago

Fat has 9 calories per gram. Carbohydrates and protein have 4. The problem is that we strip all the fiber away from the carbs we eat and this causes all kind of problems including making them less satiating. Getting fat eating whole carbs is quite difficult. Refined carbs and sugar are bad but the idea that all carbs are bad is simplistic and wrong. Legumes in particular are extremely filling: https://www.azumio.com/blog/nutrition/beans-skinny-food https://www.azumio.com/blog/nutrition/beans-skinny-food