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There has been a huge divide in the drone world between high performance first person view (FPV) drones capable of acrobatics and the "tripod in the sky" type d

There has been a huge divide in the drone world between high performance first person view (FPV) drones capable of acrobatics and the "tripod in the sky" type drones that companies like DJI have popularized. The former has been very DIY and the latter have attracted companies to build integrated solutions. This new drone from DJI brings an truly staggering amount of innovation and integration to the FPV space: - Low res analog video -> high res digital video - Modest transmission range -> long range - Integrated simulation to learn to fly - "Bail out" button that almost instantly nulls drone movement and puts it in a stationary hover - ~5 minutes fly time -> ~20 minutes fly time - Adjustable camera tilt on the fly to maintain level horizon at a variety of drone speeds (drone tilts more with speed) Extremely impressive first offering in this category.

LukaD 6y ago
> - Low res analog video -> high res digital video > - Modest transmission range -> long range Those are not really new. DJI has been selling their standalone digital FPV system for a while now. And there are lot's of different long range radio systems available. But I agree that this is impressive. I wonder if Betaflight, etc. will also implement some kind of bail out feature.
- bri3d 6y ago
  Betaflight already has very rudimentary RTH / "GPS Rescue" functionality, obviously without ground/forward sensors it's not as good, but it does work pretty well for "oh no something has gone wrong" in the form of video or control link loss.
Naomarik 6y ago
DJI digital video has been out for quite awhile now for hobbyists to include in their custom builds. Transmission range is not a valid point because a clean analog video signal and Crossfire outpaces DJI enormously. The 20 min flight time is a lie, Joshua Bardwell measured 10 minutes hovering. That's extremely easy to surpass on typical light weight 5 inch freestyle drone with a 1300mah battery that cost a fifth of the price of the DJI ones. It is an impressive drone, but for experienced FPV pilots it's very limiting.
- hactually 6y ago
  You seem in the know, any recommended sources or communities I should look into, or even if you're happy to share more I'm keen to hear it
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    There are various FPV groups on Facebook, and Joshua Bardwell shares a lot of knowledge on YouTube. Also, prepare to lose a lot of your life soldering things.
  - meheleventyone 6y ago
    I got into it a few months ago Joshua Bardwell as the sibling mentioned is a great source of info: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX3eufnI7A2I7IkKHZn8KSQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX3eufnI7A2I7IkKHZn8KSQ The main thing anyone starting needs to realize is that it takes quite a bit of time to get used to how Quads fly in Acro/Rate mode. I started on a simulator (Liftoff) with an XBox pad and that was super punishing as gentle and precise control is needed. Switching to a proper radio was a night and day difference. I'd guess it took 5-10 hours of flying time to get to the point where I could comfortably go where I wanted 99% of the time. I'm up to 50 hours of sim time now and flinging the things around with wild abandon. Looking forward to summer and getting out to try the real thing. My recommendation for starting out would be to grab a cheap radio that is easy to connect to a PC and a copy of a simulator.
    - faeyanpiraat 6y ago
      This is super important! Clock in 20-30 hrs of flight time in a sim using a real radio, before even thinking about building a quad. You might realize it is not for you, and save the hassle, but more importantly it is really dangerous, even when you are an experienced driver. Without sim experience you are guaranteed to crash quickly and do some damage in stuff and/or people!
    - throwaway6734 6y ago
      Recs for a cheap radio that is easy to connect to a pc? I also had the same result when trying to use a gamepad
magnat 6y ago
> Low res analog video -> high res digital video Major benefit of analog video is a progressive degradation of quality as a signal gets weaker and almost instant reacquisition after a complete dropout. I'm curious to see how DJI competes with that on a digital video. > ~5 minutes fly time -> ~20 minutes fly time For FPV racing that's rather a downgrade. Ideally you'd like to land with almost empty battery right after finishing the course. Any leftover charge is a dead weight that only slows you down. But then again - I don't think this drone will be used in competitive FPV racing.
- Udik 6y ago
  > Any leftover charge is a dead weight that only slows you down. Uh? Can you explain this?
  - dagw 6y ago
    If you have leftover charge after you land it means you could have used a smaller (and thus lighter) battery, which would have let you fly faster.
  - robbiep 6y ago
    Presumably not literally like in the case of a rocket or formula 1, but also literally as in, I could have used a lighter battery with less charge that goes faster
- HPsquared 6y ago
  On progressive degradation, perhaps the digital video output could be adapted with an indication of the error rate (which usually get corrected in the background until it reaches a threshold where the errors are too great) Or perhaps the signal strength or SNR. These parameters are available but not usually displayed.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > Major benefit of analog video is a progressive degradation of quality as a signal gets weaker and almost instant reacquisition after a complete dropout. I'm curious to see how DJI competes with that on a digital video. Waiting for a degradation tolerant codec. Old MPEGs were, as they had broadcast use in mind, but even 264 blow them out of the water on compression nowadays. Loss tolerant codec + modern channel coding will likelly outrange analog for quality picture
wereHamster 6y ago
High-res digital video has been available to the multicopter community for a long time now through https://www.dji.com/fpv https://www.dji.com/fpv. First released by DJI, later the technology was licensed to others (at least the camera / VTX side of the electronics), se for example caddex vista / nebula (https://caddxfpv.com/collections/dji-1 https://caddxfpv.com/collections/dji-1).
- latchkey 6y ago
  Interesting that it is all sold out too...
  - bri3d 6y ago
    DJI seem to have diverted their supply chain from hobbyist FPV to this new drone. Supply for all DJI FPV gear has been very limited ever since they filed the "V2" goggles (for the Drone) with the FCC. I'm hoping they keep their hobbyist/DIY FPV system going though, as it blows everything else out of the water. Analog video is well, bad, open source alternatives are either abandoned or mediocre, and the Divimath/Fat Shark system is not even comparable in terms of quality.
    - latchkey 6y ago
      I guess all the things you mention is why they continue to get my money. Bought the drone yesterday to compliment the Air2, which I absolutely love, and can't wait to try it out.
    - ben7799 6y ago
      That makes sense though.. they're probably putting initial production of the V2 goggles into the FPV kits, and running out their supply of independent V1 Goggles. My guess is at some point soon they'll be selling the V2 goggles on their own for the hobby use case.
moooo99 6y ago
> - Low res analog video -> high res digital video For Hobbyists, the high res digital video is definitely a great development and makes for a better flying experience overall. Real racers still complain about the latency, but they are not the target of the digital FPV system and the new DJI FPV drone always. But the high res is nothing unique to the DJI FPV drone. DJI started offering the Digital FPV system a few years ago for integration into diy drones. > - Modest transmission range -> long range There are plenty of long range transmission standards in the DIY space such as TBS Crossfire etc. For video transmission, it heavily depends on the transmission power which quickly becomes the listing factor. In Germany (and most EU states iirc) the transmission power for 5GHz signals limited to 25mW, which heavily reduces the range . 2.4GHz is not supported with the DJI AirUnit or Caddx Vista iirc. For lots of countries long range isn't even that much of an important feature since its legally only allowed to fly line of sight anyways. However, for countries with less strict drone laws this seems like an awesome addition. > ~5 minutes fly time -> ~20 minutes fly time That is the most misleading part imho. The 20 minutes flight time are only realistic when flying in the fully sensor supported "Mavic like" mode. If you're actually going for the powerful freestyle FPV experience, the flight time is still around 3-5 minutes with the major difference that a replacement battery for the DJI FPV is about 150€ while a LiPo for a DIY racing quad costs around 30-40€ a piece. That the flight time is heavily decreased when flying in the actual FPV freestyle (acro) mode is not surprising (its only a 2000mAh battery in a heavy drone), but I find the claim highly misleading. > - Integrated simulation to learn to fly In the FPV space, simulators have been a thing for quite a while now. There are multiple simulators such as Freerider, Velocidrone or Liftoff, all with different focuses and a broad support for controllers. You can even use a Xbox controller for the beginning. So integrating a simulation to learn to fly is no unique to DJI and nothing new in the FPV space at all. > - "Bail out" button that almost instantly nulls drone movement and puts it in a stationary hover The bail out button, even though I see a lot of risks with it, seems like a great feature for beginners. I really hope that beta flight will add a similar feature to upcoming firmware versions. The DJI FPV drone seems like a relatively fragile drone. The most annoying part is, that there is apparently no real way to fix anything yourself besides the props. The current FPV drones really can take a beating and you probably won't break that much. If you do, you can simply order a new arm for your frame or a new motor. You need some technical knowledge and skills such as soldering, but you do not depend on the manufacturer with an Apple like repair policy. The DJI FPV seems like a great entry option for cinematographers who just want to get some FPV style footage (which might be possible, but seems limited since the props often show up in the frame) with as little technical confrontation as possible. For people who just fly for fun and want some high speed stunts, diy drones still seem like the better option. For anyone wanting to enter the hobby, there are a lot of bind and fly drones out there where little technical knowledge is required. For the technical knowledge that is required, there are lots of really supportive communities.
darig 6y ago
Is it really innovative to go from 0 latency analog video to >0 latency digital video? Especially when you're controlling something in real time, moving extremely fast, that could hurt people if you crash into them?
sneak 6y ago
The product is amazing, but I'm sad that the first amazing integrated fpv product out is coming from DJI. It makes perfect sense, but I hate giving them money as each DJI purchase is a positive reinforcement for their abhorrent approach to consumer privacy. I'll probably get one, but continue to complain loudly online that every DJI product, including the offline ones, requires an account and email address and registration and the transmission of your serial number for it to work - including their little handheld, no-internet, record-to-sd-card cameras. :/
- jessaustin 6y ago
  Is there a drawback to lying on this registration? One-time email, fake PID, etc.? Assume one doesn't live in PRC...
  - novok 6y ago
    An excuse to eventually brick your device.
  - sneak 6y ago
    I use the one-time email, on a VPN, but there’s no way around it transmitting your serial number. To keep it private in the future you need a dedicated offline mobile device to run the app, which after installing the app never goes back online. I don't want to have an offline DJI-only phone. Most people who fly drones are sending their IP, gps data, and serial number to DJI on every flight.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      Yikes! I had forgotten all of that... maybe an old phone without a SIM might be a good idea.

LukaD 6y ago

> - Low res analog video -> high res digital video > - Modest transmission range -> long range Those are not really new. DJI has been selling their standalone digital FPV system for a while now. And there are lot's of different long range radio systems available. But I agree that this is impressive. I wonder if Betaflight, etc. will also implement some kind of bail out feature.

bri3d 6y ago
Betaflight already has very rudimentary RTH / "GPS Rescue" functionality, obviously without ground/forward sensors it's not as good, but it does work pretty well for "oh no something has gone wrong" in the form of video or control link loss.

Naomarik 6y ago

DJI digital video has been out for quite awhile now for hobbyists to include in their custom builds. Transmission range is not a valid point because a clean analog video signal and Crossfire outpaces DJI enormously. The 20 min flight time is a lie, Joshua Bardwell measured 10 minutes hovering. That's extremely easy to surpass on typical light weight 5 inch freestyle drone with a 1300mah battery that cost a fifth of the price of the DJI ones. It is an impressive drone, but for experienced FPV pilots it's very limiting.

hactually 6y ago
You seem in the know, any recommended sources or communities I should look into, or even if you're happy to share more I'm keen to hear it
- StavrosK 6y ago
  There are various FPV groups on Facebook, and Joshua Bardwell shares a lot of knowledge on YouTube. Also, prepare to lose a lot of your life soldering things.
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  I got into it a few months ago Joshua Bardwell as the sibling mentioned is a great source of info: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX3eufnI7A2I7IkKHZn8KSQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX3eufnI7A2I7IkKHZn8KSQ The main thing anyone starting needs to realize is that it takes quite a bit of time to get used to how Quads fly in Acro/Rate mode. I started on a simulator (Liftoff) with an XBox pad and that was super punishing as gentle and precise control is needed. Switching to a proper radio was a night and day difference. I'd guess it took 5-10 hours of flying time to get to the point where I could comfortably go where I wanted 99% of the time. I'm up to 50 hours of sim time now and flinging the things around with wild abandon. Looking forward to summer and getting out to try the real thing. My recommendation for starting out would be to grab a cheap radio that is easy to connect to a PC and a copy of a simulator.
  - faeyanpiraat 6y ago
    This is super important! Clock in 20-30 hrs of flight time in a sim using a real radio, before even thinking about building a quad. You might realize it is not for you, and save the hassle, but more importantly it is really dangerous, even when you are an experienced driver. Without sim experience you are guaranteed to crash quickly and do some damage in stuff and/or people!
  - throwaway6734 6y ago
    Recs for a cheap radio that is easy to connect to a pc? I also had the same result when trying to use a gamepad

magnat 6y ago

> Low res analog video -> high res digital video Major benefit of analog video is a progressive degradation of quality as a signal gets weaker and almost instant reacquisition after a complete dropout. I'm curious to see how DJI competes with that on a digital video. > ~5 minutes fly time -> ~20 minutes fly time For FPV racing that's rather a downgrade. Ideally you'd like to land with almost empty battery right after finishing the course. Any leftover charge is a dead weight that only slows you down. But then again - I don't think this drone will be used in competitive FPV racing.

Udik 6y ago
> Any leftover charge is a dead weight that only slows you down. Uh? Can you explain this?
- dagw 6y ago
  If you have leftover charge after you land it means you could have used a smaller (and thus lighter) battery, which would have let you fly faster.
- robbiep 6y ago
  Presumably not literally like in the case of a rocket or formula 1, but also literally as in, I could have used a lighter battery with less charge that goes faster
HPsquared 6y ago
On progressive degradation, perhaps the digital video output could be adapted with an indication of the error rate (which usually get corrected in the background until it reaches a threshold where the errors are too great) Or perhaps the signal strength or SNR. These parameters are available but not usually displayed.
baybal2 6y ago
> Major benefit of analog video is a progressive degradation of quality as a signal gets weaker and almost instant reacquisition after a complete dropout. I'm curious to see how DJI competes with that on a digital video. Waiting for a degradation tolerant codec. Old MPEGs were, as they had broadcast use in mind, but even 264 blow them out of the water on compression nowadays. Loss tolerant codec + modern channel coding will likelly outrange analog for quality picture

wereHamster 6y ago

High-res digital video has been available to the multicopter community for a long time now through https://www.dji.com/fpv https://www.dji.com/fpv. First released by DJI, later the technology was licensed to others (at least the camera / VTX side of the electronics), se for example caddex vista / nebula (https://caddxfpv.com/collections/dji-1 https://caddxfpv.com/collections/dji-1).

latchkey 6y ago
Interesting that it is all sold out too...
- bri3d 6y ago
  DJI seem to have diverted their supply chain from hobbyist FPV to this new drone. Supply for all DJI FPV gear has been very limited ever since they filed the "V2" goggles (for the Drone) with the FCC. I'm hoping they keep their hobbyist/DIY FPV system going though, as it blows everything else out of the water. Analog video is well, bad, open source alternatives are either abandoned or mediocre, and the Divimath/Fat Shark system is not even comparable in terms of quality.
  - latchkey 6y ago
    I guess all the things you mention is why they continue to get my money. Bought the drone yesterday to compliment the Air2, which I absolutely love, and can't wait to try it out.
  - ben7799 6y ago
    That makes sense though.. they're probably putting initial production of the V2 goggles into the FPV kits, and running out their supply of independent V1 Goggles. My guess is at some point soon they'll be selling the V2 goggles on their own for the hobby use case.

moooo99 6y ago

> - Low res analog video -> high res digital video For Hobbyists, the high res digital video is definitely a great development and makes for a better flying experience overall. Real racers still complain about the latency, but they are not the target of the digital FPV system and the new DJI FPV drone always. But the high res is nothing unique to the DJI FPV drone. DJI started offering the Digital FPV system a few years ago for integration into diy drones. > - Modest transmission range -> long range There are plenty of long range transmission standards in the DIY space such as TBS Crossfire etc. For video transmission, it heavily depends on the transmission power which quickly becomes the listing factor. In Germany (and most EU states iirc) the transmission power for 5GHz signals limited to 25mW, which heavily reduces the range . 2.4GHz is not supported with the DJI AirUnit or Caddx Vista iirc. For lots of countries long range isn't even that much of an important feature since its legally only allowed to fly line of sight anyways. However, for countries with less strict drone laws this seems like an awesome addition. > ~5 minutes fly time -> ~20 minutes fly time That is the most misleading part imho. The 20 minutes flight time are only realistic when flying in the fully sensor supported "Mavic like" mode. If you're actually going for the powerful freestyle FPV experience, the flight time is still around 3-5 minutes with the major difference that a replacement battery for the DJI FPV is about 150€ while a LiPo for a DIY racing quad costs around 30-40€ a piece. That the flight time is heavily decreased when flying in the actual FPV freestyle (acro) mode is not surprising (its only a 2000mAh battery in a heavy drone), but I find the claim highly misleading. > - Integrated simulation to learn to fly In the FPV space, simulators have been a thing for quite a while now. There are multiple simulators such as Freerider, Velocidrone or Liftoff, all with different focuses and a broad support for controllers. You can even use a Xbox controller for the beginning. So integrating a simulation to learn to fly is no unique to DJI and nothing new in the FPV space at all. > - "Bail out" button that almost instantly nulls drone movement and puts it in a stationary hover The bail out button, even though I see a lot of risks with it, seems like a great feature for beginners. I really hope that beta flight will add a similar feature to upcoming firmware versions. The DJI FPV drone seems like a relatively fragile drone. The most annoying part is, that there is apparently no real way to fix anything yourself besides the props. The current FPV drones really can take a beating and you probably won't break that much. If you do, you can simply order a new arm for your frame or a new motor. You need some technical knowledge and skills such as soldering, but you do not depend on the manufacturer with an Apple like repair policy. The DJI FPV seems like a great entry option for cinematographers who just want to get some FPV style footage (which might be possible, but seems limited since the props often show up in the frame) with as little technical confrontation as possible. For people who just fly for fun and want some high speed stunts, diy drones still seem like the better option. For anyone wanting to enter the hobby, there are a lot of bind and fly drones out there where little technical knowledge is required. For the technical knowledge that is required, there are lots of really supportive communities.

darig 6y ago

Is it really innovative to go from 0 latency analog video to >0 latency digital video? Especially when you're controlling something in real time, moving extremely fast, that could hurt people if you crash into them?

sneak 6y ago

The product is amazing, but I'm sad that the first amazing integrated fpv product out is coming from DJI. It makes perfect sense, but I hate giving them money as each DJI purchase is a positive reinforcement for their abhorrent approach to consumer privacy. I'll probably get one, but continue to complain loudly online that every DJI product, including the offline ones, requires an account and email address and registration and the transmission of your serial number for it to work - including their little handheld, no-internet, record-to-sd-card cameras. :/

jessaustin 6y ago
Is there a drawback to lying on this registration? One-time email, fake PID, etc.? Assume one doesn't live in PRC...
- novok 6y ago
  An excuse to eventually brick your device.
- sneak 6y ago
  I use the one-time email, on a VPN, but there’s no way around it transmitting your serial number. To keep it private in the future you need a dedicated offline mobile device to run the app, which after installing the app never goes back online. I don't want to have an offline DJI-only phone. Most people who fly drones are sending their IP, gps data, and serial number to DJI on every flight.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Yikes! I had forgotten all of that... maybe an old phone without a SIM might be a good idea.