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Anyone has insights on how data in such volumes can be transferred from Mars to Earth in the absence of a direct link? Do the intermediate nodes have gigabytes

Anyone has insights on how data in such volumes can be transferred from Mars to Earth in the absence of a direct link? Do the intermediate nodes have gigabytes of available storage to emit data to the next available node once it becomes visible ?

electriclove 6y ago
Perseverance sends the data to various orbiters (satellites already in orbit around Mars) during overflights (time windows when the orbiter is in range of the rover) and those orbiters then send (relay) the data to Earth via the Deep Space Network (satellite dishes on Earth).
raynr 6y ago
From my layman's understanding, it's relayed via the orbiters. There are a few orbiters around Mars. NASA appears to have an arrangement with the ESA to upload data from the rovers to the ESA's orbiters, depending on whose orbiters are within line of sight at any given time. Then the orbiter sends the information back to Earth, which are received by NASA's Deep Space Network During the time when line of sight between Earth and Mars is blocked by Sol, there isn't any communication. May interest you: https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/spacecraft/rover/communications/ https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/spacecraft/rover/communicatio...
- SturgeonsLaw 6y ago
  It never ceases to impress me that we have the ability to do this sort of stuff. A couple thousand years ago, the height of technology was shooting something from a few hundred metres away with a bow and arrow, now we are landing machines on another planet and transmitting data back and forth through the solar system. Incredible.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
    Incredible for me, too. The power of building the civilization, one generation after another, and of working together, sharing the knowledge.
    - DrBazza 6y ago
      But according to Ancient Aliens, the large stone Pyramids were built by aliens, but the TV cameras recording the show's hosts, with CCDs, and likely 10nm chips inside, were built by humans. In all seriousness, it's impressive what knowledge sharing and cooperation achieves.
      - zimpenfish 6y ago
        [Ancient Aliens] Ah but the cameras and chips are only possible -because- the aliens built the pyramids and inspired humans technologically and a mere 4450 years later, voila! CCDs and computer chips!
        dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
        Well, given the fact that we still know relatively little about most of the observable universe (dark matter & energy), I don't think you can completely rule out the several unlikely hypotheses. For example, that earlier civilizations instead of electricity used a completely different form of energy - and that basically directed their development into a completely different direction, not leaving many material artefacts. I don't believe this actually happened, but a part of me knows that I can't be 100% sure it didn't.
      - dylan604 6y ago
        It is highly unlikely that the cameras being used to produce Ancient Aliens are CCDs unless they are also using ancient camera tech. Most likely, the camera's image sensors are CMOS. 3 chip CCDs reached their pinnacle as 90s/early 00s tech. CCDs can only sense one color, so they put three of them behind an RGB splitter.
  - mattmanser 6y ago
    A couple of thousand years ago is the peak of the Romans, so you're way off on your 'height' of technology at that time. Using bows and arrows as an example when you've got wonders of pretty advanced engineering like the Parthenon, plus they also had ballistae, chariots and catapults, so not the peak at all. Not only that, but even the bows were more advanced, composite bows much more powerful than simple ones made of wood.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - bloak 6y ago
      The most complex machine of the Roman era was perhaps a water organ. (I would guess that for long historical periods the most complex machines were keyboard-controlled musical instruments.)
      - WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
        Oh see you did it now - opened up a vacuum about ancient tech. I'll start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile
        mstade 6y ago
        Great link, thanks for sharing! This has the makings of an excellent thread – please do continue sharing cool stuff!! :o)
        Bluestein 6y ago
        (The question as to how - and why or why not - we could go from the Aeolipile to full blown steam engines, I've always found fascinating ... ... what other things / proceses / materials / frame of mind made the steam engine possible vs. this. What made for an industrial revolution in the 1800's vs. the 1st century AD).-
        rmu09 6y ago
  - vkou 6y ago
    A couple of thousand years ago, humans built massive engineering projects, including the Pyramids, massive irrigation and earthwork systems, and tunnels, and bridges, domesticated wild animals, produced metals - including steel - out nothing but wood, water, and low grade ore, etc, etc. They did not have internal combustion engines, or electricity, or the ability to machine parts to high tolerances, but ancient engineers cared deeply about efficiently transforming mechanical energy from one form to another.
akg_67 6y ago
Reddit had AMA with engineers from this mission, IIRC last week. They provided good info on different aspects including how they were able to get video over low bandwith connection, including various mission site link for more info. You might want to check out AMA for your question. Edit: added following links This Q&A about storage https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godr2t7/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist... These Q&A about data rate https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godtjvo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist... https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godvlad/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist... This Q&A about RTG (operational life) https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godsh0y/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist...
- asaddhamani 6y ago
  Do you have a link to this AMA?
  - kgrimes2 6y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist...
- eCa 6y ago
  https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist...
- jdmichal 6y ago
  Others have posted links to the Reddit thread overall, but I think this is the specific question being referred to: https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godr2t7/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist... EDIT: Apparently the rover has an antenna that can directly communicate with Earth at 10 bits per second! That's obviously not useful for pictures or anything, but it's an amazing capability for emergency comms.
pkaye 6y ago
They added dedicated storage in the rover itself to store phots and videos. So for example they can compress the video files before transmitting. I've hear they use ffmpeg for this purpose. There are 4 orbiting satellites that can relay any data sent to it.
mmcconnell1618 6y ago
Vint Cerf has been working with NASA for over a decade on a design for interplanetary internet. I work at Google and he shared a story about how the earlier rovers had radios that were overheating at higher bandwidth transmissions. A smart engineer noted that they had an X band radio on the rover and still had one in an orbiter around Mars. The rover could transmit at 128mbps over xband to the orbitter, which in turn had large antennas to transmit back to earth at 128mbps. I assume Perseverance supports more bandwidth but it may be limited by whatever equipment we have in orbit around Mars. https://www.quantamagazine.org/vint-cerfs-plan-for-building-an-internet-in-space-20201021/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/vint-cerfs-plan-for-building-...
dekhn 6y ago
See https://www.quantamagazine.org/vint-cerfs-plan-for- https://www.quantamagazine.org/vint-cerfs-plan-for- building-an-internet-in-space-20201021/ for some details on projects related to this. IIRC it's store and forward.

electriclove 6y ago

Perseverance sends the data to various orbiters (satellites already in orbit around Mars) during overflights (time windows when the orbiter is in range of the rover) and those orbiters then send (relay) the data to Earth via the Deep Space Network (satellite dishes on Earth).

raynr 6y ago

From my layman's understanding, it's relayed via the orbiters. There are a few orbiters around Mars. NASA appears to have an arrangement with the ESA to upload data from the rovers to the ESA's orbiters, depending on whose orbiters are within line of sight at any given time. Then the orbiter sends the information back to Earth, which are received by NASA's Deep Space Network During the time when line of sight between Earth and Mars is blocked by Sol, there isn't any communication. May interest you: https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/spacecraft/rover/communications/ https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/spacecraft/rover/communicatio...

SturgeonsLaw 6y ago
It never ceases to impress me that we have the ability to do this sort of stuff. A couple thousand years ago, the height of technology was shooting something from a few hundred metres away with a bow and arrow, now we are landing machines on another planet and transmitting data back and forth through the solar system. Incredible.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  Incredible for me, too. The power of building the civilization, one generation after another, and of working together, sharing the knowledge.
  - DrBazza 6y ago
    But according to Ancient Aliens, the large stone Pyramids were built by aliens, but the TV cameras recording the show's hosts, with CCDs, and likely 10nm chips inside, were built by humans. In all seriousness, it's impressive what knowledge sharing and cooperation achieves.
    - zimpenfish 6y ago
      [Ancient Aliens] Ah but the cameras and chips are only possible -because- the aliens built the pyramids and inspired humans technologically and a mere 4450 years later, voila! CCDs and computer chips!
      - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
        Well, given the fact that we still know relatively little about most of the observable universe (dark matter & energy), I don't think you can completely rule out the several unlikely hypotheses. For example, that earlier civilizations instead of electricity used a completely different form of energy - and that basically directed their development into a completely different direction, not leaving many material artefacts. I don't believe this actually happened, but a part of me knows that I can't be 100% sure it didn't.
    - dylan604 6y ago
      It is highly unlikely that the cameras being used to produce Ancient Aliens are CCDs unless they are also using ancient camera tech. Most likely, the camera's image sensors are CMOS. 3 chip CCDs reached their pinnacle as 90s/early 00s tech. CCDs can only sense one color, so they put three of them behind an RGB splitter.
- mattmanser 6y ago
  A couple of thousand years ago is the peak of the Romans, so you're way off on your 'height' of technology at that time. Using bows and arrows as an example when you've got wonders of pretty advanced engineering like the Parthenon, plus they also had ballistae, chariots and catapults, so not the peak at all. Not only that, but even the bows were more advanced, composite bows much more powerful than simple ones made of wood.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - bloak 6y ago
    The most complex machine of the Roman era was perhaps a water organ. (I would guess that for long historical periods the most complex machines were keyboard-controlled musical instruments.)
    - WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
      Oh see you did it now - opened up a vacuum about ancient tech. I'll start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile
      - mstade 6y ago
        Great link, thanks for sharing! This has the makings of an excellent thread – please do continue sharing cool stuff!! :o)
      - Bluestein 6y ago
        (The question as to how - and why or why not - we could go from the Aeolipile to full blown steam engines, I've always found fascinating ... ... what other things / proceses / materials / frame of mind made the steam engine possible vs. this. What made for an industrial revolution in the 1800's vs. the 1st century AD).-
        rmu09 6y ago
- vkou 6y ago
  A couple of thousand years ago, humans built massive engineering projects, including the Pyramids, massive irrigation and earthwork systems, and tunnels, and bridges, domesticated wild animals, produced metals - including steel - out nothing but wood, water, and low grade ore, etc, etc. They did not have internal combustion engines, or electricity, or the ability to machine parts to high tolerances, but ancient engineers cared deeply about efficiently transforming mechanical energy from one form to another.

akg_67 6y ago

Reddit had AMA with engineers from this mission, IIRC last week. They provided good info on different aspects including how they were able to get video over low bandwith connection, including various mission site link for more info. You might want to check out AMA for your question. Edit: added following links This Q&A about storage https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godr2t7/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist... These Q&A about data rate https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godtjvo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist... https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godvlad/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist... This Q&A about RTG (operational life) https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godsh0y/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist...

asaddhamani 6y ago
Do you have a link to this AMA?
- kgrimes2 6y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist...
eCa 6y ago
https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist...
jdmichal 6y ago
Others have posted links to the Reddit thread overall, but I think this is the specific question being referred to: https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientists_and_engineers_working_on_nasas/godr2t7/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/lpzbzo/were_scientist... EDIT: Apparently the rover has an antenna that can directly communicate with Earth at 10 bits per second! That's obviously not useful for pictures or anything, but it's an amazing capability for emergency comms.

pkaye 6y ago

They added dedicated storage in the rover itself to store phots and videos. So for example they can compress the video files before transmitting. I've hear they use ffmpeg for this purpose. There are 4 orbiting satellites that can relay any data sent to it.

mmcconnell1618 6y ago

Vint Cerf has been working with NASA for over a decade on a design for interplanetary internet. I work at Google and he shared a story about how the earlier rovers had radios that were overheating at higher bandwidth transmissions. A smart engineer noted that they had an X band radio on the rover and still had one in an orbiter around Mars. The rover could transmit at 128mbps over xband to the orbitter, which in turn had large antennas to transmit back to earth at 128mbps. I assume Perseverance supports more bandwidth but it may be limited by whatever equipment we have in orbit around Mars. https://www.quantamagazine.org/vint-cerfs-plan-for-building-an-internet-in-space-20201021/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/vint-cerfs-plan-for-building-...

dekhn 6y ago

See https://www.quantamagazine.org/vint-cerfs-plan-for- https://www.quantamagazine.org/vint-cerfs-plan-for- building-an-internet-in-space-20201021/ for some details on projects related to this. IIRC it's store and forward.