4 ms·

Exactly. I grew up in the Midwest and outside of the city. When I visit home, I pretend to believe in God, lie-by-omission about my bisexuality, stay silent ab

Exactly. I grew up in the Midwest and outside of the city. When I visit home, I pretend to believe in God, lie-by-omission about my bisexuality, stay silent about politics, pretend to say grace at dinner, and go to Church on Sunday mornings. If I didn't, then in many ways I'd not longer be welcome in that social group. Finding a iving-wage job in the local community would certainly be impossible. There are only a few tech firms and all the owners are members of the same bible study. Want to see real cancel culture? Live in any of America's many culturally homogeneous rural communities for a month. Put up a Biden sign in panhandle. None of this is a defense of cancel culture, but it's worth keeping in perspective that way more "cancelling" goes on in deeply conservative communities than in extremely liberal communities. We just call it "keeping American a Christian nation" instead of "cancel culture".

Covzire 6y ago
The opposite has been true for many decades now. There are many Christians who are extremely capable scientists, ready to perform experiments, document cause and effect and all manners of empirical scientific study but can't find work (or tenure) because they're not willing to bet all their beliefs on the theory that everything came from literally nothing, which is by itself non-scientific anyway.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  > but can't find work (or tenure) because they're not willing to bet all their beliefs on the theory that everything came from literally nothing, which is by itself non-scientific anyway. Can you point to a single example of a hiring or T&P policy that overtly discriminates on the basis of religion? I certainly can. Wheaton College, Cedarville University, and Liberty University come to mind. None of those places will hire non-Christians, and a Statement of Faith is a required component of every faculty application.
- cbryan 6y ago
  This is complete hogwash. I know and work with plenty of Christian scientists. They do just as well as everyone else in the job market.
  - Covzire 6y ago
    Name one prominent scientist who is on record (and has tenure) who holds the position that the origin of the big bang as taught today is un-scientific. Of course there are Christian scientists, but Academia only promotes and gives tenure to atheists for a growing number of fields.
    - lostcolony 6y ago
      Name any scientist that has a position other than the big bang theory, that has any evidence backing it? The standard isn't "can't include God", but "must fit the facts". God is unprovable and untestable; making a theory depend on a God makes the theory unprovable and untestable. Most scientists who also have religious beliefs don't see the two conflicting; their religion gives the why, their profession the how. Or more succinctly, no one is blackballing scientists for saying "I believe God caused the Big Bang". But claims of, for instance, "I believe the world was created 6000 years ago over a period of 7 literal days" requires some evidence beyond "My understanding of the Bible tells me so", and doesn't jibe with your initial statement of empirical scientific study.
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      A Christian is defined by belief in salvation through Christ's death and resurrection. Not disbelief in the Big Bang.
    - threatofrain 6y ago
      Isn't it kind of arrogant to think that one knows the mechanisms of God so surely as to settle the question on the origins of the universe? The bible, esp. genesis, is taken metaphorically, or else a lot of problematic interpretations will arise. Also, even scholars of the Abrahamic faiths do not readily disclose their intimate religious faith, lest their work be discredited — such as a professor who studies Christianity, but holds Islamic faith. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQhMllQ-ODw&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQhMllQ-ODw&feature=emb_logo
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
c06n 6y ago
I used to feel to belong to "The Left" (whatever that is) precisely because it did not do these things. Now it does, and sees it even as a moral imperative to do so. I'm on the autism spectrum, as are many others around here. Social rules are hard in the best of times. Now they are impossible to follow, and breaking them is outright dangerous. But I can keep to myself, I guess I'll be fine.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  I also find this trend on the left morally unfortunate, historically out-of-character, and strategically flawed. My point here is not to defend cancel culture, but rather to point out that something like it has always existed and still exists on the right. IMO the only solution is everyone realizing this fact and explicitly agreeing to some form of detente. I'm not holding my breath, but step zero is both sides realizing that the their side also does the thing they're complaining about.
  - edbob 6y ago
    I completely agree that there are problems on both sides, but I don't see how your reasoning encourages "everyone realizing this fact and explicitly agreeing to some form of detente". On the contrary, progressives seem to see "the right has oppressed people" as a mandate to do everything they can to make war on the right and even moderate positions (because moderate positions are characterized as dog whistles that conservatives hide behind, and the "fascist" "Nazi" right must not be given any potential cover no matter the cost). I really thought your posts were intentionally stoking this attitude, and I would never have guessed that you wanted detente if you hadn't explicitly said so.
    - throwawaygh 6y ago
      GP comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306326
      - edbob 6y ago
xenophonB 6y ago
those people have zero cultural or institutional power.
- jimbokun 6y ago
  They do in those communities. And Donald Trump and Fox News have a heck of a lot of cultural and institutional power.
jimbokun 6y ago
We really need a right left coalition of Anti-Cancelling advocates, calling out both close minded rural conservative communities, and close minded liberal communities living on Twitter. Ideally, with those on the right calling out the conservatives and those on the left calling out the liberals.

Covzire 6y ago

The opposite has been true for many decades now. There are many Christians who are extremely capable scientists, ready to perform experiments, document cause and effect and all manners of empirical scientific study but can't find work (or tenure) because they're not willing to bet all their beliefs on the theory that everything came from literally nothing, which is by itself non-scientific anyway.

throwawaygh 6y ago
> but can't find work (or tenure) because they're not willing to bet all their beliefs on the theory that everything came from literally nothing, which is by itself non-scientific anyway. Can you point to a single example of a hiring or T&P policy that overtly discriminates on the basis of religion? I certainly can. Wheaton College, Cedarville University, and Liberty University come to mind. None of those places will hire non-Christians, and a Statement of Faith is a required component of every faculty application.
cbryan 6y ago
This is complete hogwash. I know and work with plenty of Christian scientists. They do just as well as everyone else in the job market.
- Covzire 6y ago
  Name one prominent scientist who is on record (and has tenure) who holds the position that the origin of the big bang as taught today is un-scientific. Of course there are Christian scientists, but Academia only promotes and gives tenure to atheists for a growing number of fields.
  - lostcolony 6y ago
    Name any scientist that has a position other than the big bang theory, that has any evidence backing it? The standard isn't "can't include God", but "must fit the facts". God is unprovable and untestable; making a theory depend on a God makes the theory unprovable and untestable. Most scientists who also have religious beliefs don't see the two conflicting; their religion gives the why, their profession the how. Or more succinctly, no one is blackballing scientists for saying "I believe God caused the Big Bang". But claims of, for instance, "I believe the world was created 6000 years ago over a period of 7 literal days" requires some evidence beyond "My understanding of the Bible tells me so", and doesn't jibe with your initial statement of empirical scientific study.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    A Christian is defined by belief in salvation through Christ's death and resurrection. Not disbelief in the Big Bang.
  - threatofrain 6y ago
    Isn't it kind of arrogant to think that one knows the mechanisms of God so surely as to settle the question on the origins of the universe? The bible, esp. genesis, is taken metaphorically, or else a lot of problematic interpretations will arise. Also, even scholars of the Abrahamic faiths do not readily disclose their intimate religious faith, lest their work be discredited — such as a professor who studies Christianity, but holds Islamic faith. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQhMllQ-ODw&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQhMllQ-ODw&feature=emb_logo
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

c06n 6y ago

I used to feel to belong to "The Left" (whatever that is) precisely because it did not do these things. Now it does, and sees it even as a moral imperative to do so. I'm on the autism spectrum, as are many others around here. Social rules are hard in the best of times. Now they are impossible to follow, and breaking them is outright dangerous. But I can keep to myself, I guess I'll be fine.

throwawaygh 6y ago
I also find this trend on the left morally unfortunate, historically out-of-character, and strategically flawed. My point here is not to defend cancel culture, but rather to point out that something like it has always existed and still exists on the right. IMO the only solution is everyone realizing this fact and explicitly agreeing to some form of detente. I'm not holding my breath, but step zero is both sides realizing that the their side also does the thing they're complaining about.
- edbob 6y ago
  I completely agree that there are problems on both sides, but I don't see how your reasoning encourages "everyone realizing this fact and explicitly agreeing to some form of detente". On the contrary, progressives seem to see "the right has oppressed people" as a mandate to do everything they can to make war on the right and even moderate positions (because moderate positions are characterized as dog whistles that conservatives hide behind, and the "fascist" "Nazi" right must not be given any potential cover no matter the cost). I really thought your posts were intentionally stoking this attitude, and I would never have guessed that you wanted detente if you hadn't explicitly said so.
  - throwawaygh 6y ago
    GP comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306326
    - edbob 6y ago

xenophonB 6y ago

those people have zero cultural or institutional power.

jimbokun 6y ago
They do in those communities. And Donald Trump and Fox News have a heck of a lot of cultural and institutional power.

jimbokun 6y ago

We really need a right left coalition of Anti-Cancelling advocates, calling out both close minded rural conservative communities, and close minded liberal communities living on Twitter. Ideally, with those on the right calling out the conservatives and those on the left calling out the liberals.