4 ms·

Aren't most large organizations bound by contracts that are set at the start of the deal? I don't think most large institutions (districts for eg) are affected

by 0goel0 6y ago

Aren't most large organizations bound by contracts that are set at the start of the deal? I don't think most large institutions (districts for eg) are affected by these changes in the short term.

falcolas 6y ago
The contracts (terms of service) with such large service providers are rarely up for negotiation, and often include terms like "we can change anything so long as we give X days of notice". Even for a major school district, they're millions (or more) times smaller than Google, and don't have the support of their constituents (tax payers) to push back.
- bpodgursky 6y ago
  This is just not true, when enterprises or large organizations sign SaaS contracts. They absolutely have several years of lock-in on features and pricing. There's a huge difference between B2C products (where terms can change at any time) and B2B products.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    Feel free to view Google's Workspace (their B2B offering) terms of service. In particular, section 2 part 1. https://workspace.google.com/terms/2013/1/premier_terms.html https://workspace.google.com/terms/2013/1/premier_terms.html And for the education offering, it's there too. > Google may make commercially reasonable changes to the Services from time to time. > Google may change the terms of this Agreement from time to time ... These changes will only take effect at the beginning of Customer’s next Order Term, at which time Customer’s continued use of the Services will constitute its acceptance of the changes. https://workspace.google.com/terms/education_terms.html https://workspace.google.com/terms/education_terms.html
    - bpodgursky 6y ago
      IANAL but I would expect "commercially reasonable changes" to mean like, rearranging buttons in Gmail, or adding features to Google Calendar. Not core product changes.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Very, very few school districts are on the scale they can successfully negotiate with Google. Chicago Public Schools can probably negotiate a bespoke deal. Most everyone else has to take what's offered.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    I doubt any school district has an such contract though. In fact I doubt any school district is large enough for enterprise style contracts. I know my company has warnings about using free services - including google - for work purposes. We instead have contracts with alternate suppliers. (I can search the web with google, but that implies I'm looking for something public - I'm not allowed to upload anything company private to Drive) Sometimes the alternate is better, often worse - but always our lawyers have verified legal things that I prefer not to care about. Even as a large company we do sometimes buy the same contract as you would as a consumer (well, assuming you actually pay to use a web site, which seems unlikely). However even then we ensure that there are strong legal language about how the terms of service can change.
    - gowld 6y ago
      It's OK to not know, but not to be confidently incorrect. Big customers, including schools, sign multi year contracts and they pay (this is called "consideration" in a contract). Eng teams throw parties when the last old contract expires and they can turn off legacy monster system. Obviously, free stuff isn't free forever.
      - bluGill 6y ago
        The subject here is Google. If (as looking back is likely) you saw this as a general statement, I apologize for the confusion. School districts don't have enough month to be worth it to google to work out a specific contract. For a school district those specific contracts are with much smaller companies. When larger companies work with schools it is more likely a standard contract - or the company works with the state on behalf of all schools.

by 0goel0 6y ago

Aren't most large organizations bound by contracts that are set at the start of the deal? I don't think most large institutions (districts for eg) are affected by these changes in the short term.

falcolas 6y ago

The contracts (terms of service) with such large service providers are rarely up for negotiation, and often include terms like "we can change anything so long as we give X days of notice". Even for a major school district, they're millions (or more) times smaller than Google, and don't have the support of their constituents (tax payers) to push back.

bpodgursky 6y ago
This is just not true, when enterprises or large organizations sign SaaS contracts. They absolutely have several years of lock-in on features and pricing. There's a huge difference between B2C products (where terms can change at any time) and B2B products.
- falcolas 6y ago
  Feel free to view Google's Workspace (their B2B offering) terms of service. In particular, section 2 part 1. https://workspace.google.com/terms/2013/1/premier_terms.html https://workspace.google.com/terms/2013/1/premier_terms.html And for the education offering, it's there too. > Google may make commercially reasonable changes to the Services from time to time. > Google may change the terms of this Agreement from time to time ... These changes will only take effect at the beginning of Customer’s next Order Term, at which time Customer’s continued use of the Services will constitute its acceptance of the changes. https://workspace.google.com/terms/education_terms.html https://workspace.google.com/terms/education_terms.html
  - bpodgursky 6y ago
    IANAL but I would expect "commercially reasonable changes" to mean like, rearranging buttons in Gmail, or adding features to Google Calendar. Not core product changes.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  Very, very few school districts are on the scale they can successfully negotiate with Google. Chicago Public Schools can probably negotiate a bespoke deal. Most everyone else has to take what's offered.
- bluGill 6y ago
  I doubt any school district has an such contract though. In fact I doubt any school district is large enough for enterprise style contracts. I know my company has warnings about using free services - including google - for work purposes. We instead have contracts with alternate suppliers. (I can search the web with google, but that implies I'm looking for something public - I'm not allowed to upload anything company private to Drive) Sometimes the alternate is better, often worse - but always our lawyers have verified legal things that I prefer not to care about. Even as a large company we do sometimes buy the same contract as you would as a consumer (well, assuming you actually pay to use a web site, which seems unlikely). However even then we ensure that there are strong legal language about how the terms of service can change.
  - gowld 6y ago
    It's OK to not know, but not to be confidently incorrect. Big customers, including schools, sign multi year contracts and they pay (this is called "consideration" in a contract). Eng teams throw parties when the last old contract expires and they can turn off legacy monster system. Obviously, free stuff isn't free forever.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      The subject here is Google. If (as looking back is likely) you saw this as a general statement, I apologize for the confusion. School districts don't have enough month to be worth it to google to work out a specific contract. For a school district those specific contracts are with much smaller companies. When larger companies work with schools it is more likely a standard contract - or the company works with the state on behalf of all schools.