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This is interesting. My wife is a case worker for the county welfare office. She deals with "those" people for a living and sees first-hand every day all the r
by bregma 6y ago
This is interesting.
My wife is a case worker for the county welfare office. She deals with "those" people for a living and sees first-hand every day all the real and imagined shit spouted by righteous ideologues. She tells me that amongst those living in poverty, wealth is measured in terms of friends and family. Any money you come into is spent immediately, often on gifts to build status within your social network.
It's only when you move into the middle classes that wealth starts to be measured in terms of money. Budgeting, saving, trying to get more and planning for a future when you have none is not something someone in poverty does: it's something someone not in poverty does when they have no money. Trying to climb the social ladder by accumulating more money marks you as middle class.
The third layer has enough money (but of course always try to get more because that's the game). Their concept of wealth tends to be oriented towards legacy: collecting artworks, donating to cultural or research endeavours, political involvement. Wealth is measured by what you leave behind, and money is wasted if it just goes to trust funds or taxes.
When I was a student, and for many years after, I had no money. I had enough to keep a squalid roof over my head and three square meals a week. I had no money and no savings but I did not live in poverty because I had a plan to earn and save and move up in the world. I had no money but I did not live in poverty.
I think it's important for people who are trying to leave their legacy by getting politically involved in eliminating poverty to understand that their world is not the world. They need to understand how the definition of wealth for those in poverty is not the same as their definition of wealth, and without understanding that difference they are bound for failure from the start.
- pessimizer 6y agoThe reason you spend money as soon as you get it when you're poor is 1) because when you're poor you accumulate debts, both formal and informal, and 2) when you're poor you know other people who are poor and who need things. Thinking poor people like being poor because they value what's really important - friends and family - is like poverty version of the "magical negro" trope. Poor people value friends and family because they need each other to survive. People with no money problems don't need anyone. edit: I honestly believe in a harsher version of this, in that for me the difference between friend and acquaintance is that a friend has sacrificed their comfort or safety for yours when they didn't have to. A friend is an acquaintance that has been tested by your bad circumstances and passed. If you're wealthy, you are rarely in truly bad circumstances, so when they happen, you might find yourself surrounded by acquaintances. Poor people know who to trust because they've had to trust them before.
- fossuser 6y agoI think you’re arguing a bit of a strawman and you and the person you replied to probably agree with each other. The accumulated debts, and helping out each other makes sense given the needs of the community and dependence on each other for survival. It’s interesting that could translate into a gift culture for social status hierarchy, and it kind of makes sense. Even if in the perverse case it can make it harder for any individual to get out of poverty - it makes it easier for them to survive while they’re in it.
- pnutjam 6y agoMathew Desmond talks about this some in his book, Evicted. https://www.evictedbook.com/ https://www.evictedbook.com/ Basically poor people have to have room mates and they have to interact with the people around them, so they tend to form quicker bonds of friendship. Middle class people can afford to go it alone.
- sethammons 6y ago> Thinking poor people like being poor because they value what's really important - friends and family - is ... I didn’t read that poor people like being poor - I read they have a different value system (and reading into it, the different value system being rooted in being poor). You are injecting something else into the narrative.
- musingsole 6y ago> People with no money problems don't need anyone. > Poor people know who to trust because they've had to trust them before. I feel like this is what's been contributing to collapsing communities in the US more than political tensions or whatever other specter one could point to. The lack of real, repeated need of others. A relative abundance on wealth leads to using money-based services to fix issues instead of relationships (which have cumbersome overheads). That leads to the creation of more services and until we've generally forgotten how to have a community, only services and consumers.
- bregma 6y ago
- ajfjrbfbf 6y ago> I had enough to keep a squalid roof over my head and three square meals a week. Three meals a week sound pretty miserable. I assume that's a typo :)
- mschuster91 6y ago> Any money you come into is spent immediately, often on gifts to build status within your social network. Rather, for immediate survival and whatever bill is the most urgent to make even a tiny partial payment to avoid cut-off and the occasional comfort food as a treat if you can afford it somehow. Source: had a rough patch in my life a couple years ago (thankfully over now).