6 ms·

I was poor for some time after deciding to quit my computer science phd for a career in art. I guess I still am compared to others, but it does not feel that wa

by mudita 6y ago

I was poor for some time after deciding to quit my computer science phd for a career in art. I guess I still am compared to others, but it does not feel that way any more. When I was really poor, worrying about money and how to pay the next rent was a regular source of stress for me, which took quite a lot of emotional energy. Now I still have much lower income than people, who have regular well-paying jobs, but I do not feel poor. I have no savings and there are some things, which feel totally out of reach like owning a car or house, but I do not have to worry about money and I can afford a lot of luxuries like visiting theatres very often and eating out. Regarding housing: I remember living in a tiny room in a shared flat in the worst part of town, above a brothel, a shady car dealer and a Hookah lounge (which was often very loud, very late into the night). Sometimes I had problems paying rent, but there just was no cheaper less-quality alternative. Regarding transportation: I am so glad, that I live in a place, where you can live very comfortably without a car. Similarly with health care. I think the US is just an especially bad place to be poor in compared to Europe. Financially switching from computer science to art has been a very bad decision, but overall it was the best decision in my life. It really helped me deal with my tendencies for depressions, because it allows me to feel more meaning in my life and suits me better. I do not think that I would have dared this switch in the US. I don’t know what would have happened if I had lived in the states, if I would have found other ways to cope with depression or if I would have slipped into deeper and deeper depressive episodes without a way out, but I am glad that I did not have to find out.

sql_monkey 6y ago
Thank you for sharing. Your comment highlights something important I believe when talking about poverty. One common argument against any type of government help is that poor people should just work harder and pull themselves by the bootstrap. However the situation you describe above shows the many side-effects of being poor which impede life in general: lack of proper sleep (because you live in a noisy area with no other choice), constant stress (paying rent, maybe dangerous neighborhood, etc.), probably not affording good quality food, etc. etc. Add these side-effects up and one quickly understand that getting out of poverty is an herculean task and I personally couldn't blame someone for not making it.
- bradleyjg 6y ago
  I’d go further—-why do all narratives around poverty have to revolve around the middle class? Either someone used to be middle class and is now poor, grew up poor and is now middle class or at very least is moving towards that end. Where are the stories about people born into poverty, still in poverty, and not likely to be anything but poor for the rest of their lives? There are lots of people like this and cutting out their stories distorts our perceptions.
  - collyw 6y ago
    > Where are the stories about people born into poverty, still in poverty, and not likely to be anything but poor for the rest of their lives? Thomas Sowell says that it's actually a pretty small percentage of people like that. Most poor people are young and most rich people are old. Young people become older and the vast majority work their way up the pay scale to some extent.
    - musingsole 6y ago
      Seems like the thing to put some numbers on. If that perpetually poor narrative is only true for 1% of Americans, that's a population bigger than my hometown being forever mischaracterized and unrepresented. Ignoring the realities of others' lives is how we got rising fascism. I doubt many are comforted in knowing they're a statistical minority.
      - collyw 6y ago
        He does. I tried to find it on youtube, but there are a lot of Sowell clips. >Ignoring the realities of others' lives is how we got rising fascism. Not sure where that comes from.
  - throw1234651234 6y ago
    I imagine no one cares about those stories for the most part, other than Jack London and Anton Chekhov.
- 6y ago
airhead969 6y ago
Ever slept in a bus station? I have, in the US. I went for 3 years without any healthcare, and then it took another 7 years and a lawyer (who took $16k USD) to get more permanent help. One thing is for certain: with 99.99% of people, their friendliness (or meanness) is proportional to the size of your bank account. If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature.
- austincheney 6y ago
  > If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. You don’t need to be homeless to discover that some people lack sympathy. I lack sympathy. It doesn’t mean I’m an asshole. Sympathy isn’t empathy (huge distinction). Some people can’t tell the difference and everyone is just bad (cue the big tears). This is especially true if you’re a freeloader. I imagine most people are just as honest about freeloaders regardless if they are homeless or supremely wealthy. This problem isn’t mean people, but rather poor self-analysis and playing a victim. Most people don’t want anything to do with that nonsense, which is extremely unsympathetic.
  - ausbah 6y ago
    you know "free loaders" aren't why most people are homeless right?
    - austincheney 6y ago
      I didn't say that.
      - cjaybo 6y ago
        No, but if there is no relation between the two then I'm not sure why the second paragraph is relevant here.
        6y ago
thaumasiotes 6y ago
> Financially switching from computer science to art has been a very bad decision, but overall it was the best decision in my life. This reminded me of a friend who graduated with a BA in "design" (I'm not sure), got a high-paying job as a web designer, and quit that to become a teacher at some type of extracurricular enrichment place for very young children. The new place didn't pay well -- or even reliably -- but she liked it more.

by mudita 6y ago

sql_monkey 6y ago

Thank you for sharing. Your comment highlights something important I believe when talking about poverty. One common argument against any type of government help is that poor people should just work harder and pull themselves by the bootstrap. However the situation you describe above shows the many side-effects of being poor which impede life in general: lack of proper sleep (because you live in a noisy area with no other choice), constant stress (paying rent, maybe dangerous neighborhood, etc.), probably not affording good quality food, etc. etc. Add these side-effects up and one quickly understand that getting out of poverty is an herculean task and I personally couldn't blame someone for not making it.

bradleyjg 6y ago
I’d go further—-why do all narratives around poverty have to revolve around the middle class? Either someone used to be middle class and is now poor, grew up poor and is now middle class or at very least is moving towards that end. Where are the stories about people born into poverty, still in poverty, and not likely to be anything but poor for the rest of their lives? There are lots of people like this and cutting out their stories distorts our perceptions.
- collyw 6y ago
  > Where are the stories about people born into poverty, still in poverty, and not likely to be anything but poor for the rest of their lives? Thomas Sowell says that it's actually a pretty small percentage of people like that. Most poor people are young and most rich people are old. Young people become older and the vast majority work their way up the pay scale to some extent.
  - musingsole 6y ago
    Seems like the thing to put some numbers on. If that perpetually poor narrative is only true for 1% of Americans, that's a population bigger than my hometown being forever mischaracterized and unrepresented. Ignoring the realities of others' lives is how we got rising fascism. I doubt many are comforted in knowing they're a statistical minority.
    - collyw 6y ago
      He does. I tried to find it on youtube, but there are a lot of Sowell clips. >Ignoring the realities of others' lives is how we got rising fascism. Not sure where that comes from.
- throw1234651234 6y ago
  I imagine no one cares about those stories for the most part, other than Jack London and Anton Chekhov.
6y ago

airhead969 6y ago

Ever slept in a bus station? I have, in the US. I went for 3 years without any healthcare, and then it took another 7 years and a lawyer (who took $16k USD) to get more permanent help. One thing is for certain: with 99.99% of people, their friendliness (or meanness) is proportional to the size of your bank account. If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature.

austincheney 6y ago
> If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. You don’t need to be homeless to discover that some people lack sympathy. I lack sympathy. It doesn’t mean I’m an asshole. Sympathy isn’t empathy (huge distinction). Some people can’t tell the difference and everyone is just bad (cue the big tears). This is especially true if you’re a freeloader. I imagine most people are just as honest about freeloaders regardless if they are homeless or supremely wealthy. This problem isn’t mean people, but rather poor self-analysis and playing a victim. Most people don’t want anything to do with that nonsense, which is extremely unsympathetic.
- ausbah 6y ago
  you know "free loaders" aren't why most people are homeless right?
  - austincheney 6y ago
    I didn't say that.
    - cjaybo 6y ago
      No, but if there is no relation between the two then I'm not sure why the second paragraph is relevant here.
      - 6y ago

thaumasiotes 6y ago

> Financially switching from computer science to art has been a very bad decision, but overall it was the best decision in my life. This reminded me of a friend who graduated with a BA in "design" (I'm not sure), got a high-paying job as a web designer, and quit that to become a teacher at some type of extracurricular enrichment place for very young children. The new place didn't pay well -- or even reliably -- but she liked it more.