12 ms·

I built a 5K iMac Display

260 points by dsr12 6y ago

hyko 6y ago
So disappointing that modern iMacs don’t have target display mode.
- _ph_ 6y ago
  This is something I just can't comprehend. For work, I am using a 16" MB Pro and I had to get a separate screen for it as I cannot connect it to my iMac for display. One would think it isn't too uncommon for iMac owners also to have a laptop. And if I could use my iMac as a screen, I might have grabbed a M1 Mac already. Instead I am waiting on a refreshed iMac.
  - aequitas 6y ago
    I use Screen Sharing to have my Macbook screen show on my iMac. Works flawless over Gigabit, except that cmd-tab sometimes lags. There are tools available[0] that allow you to set a higher resolution for a screen than what would be sensibly supported by the LCD panel. Although it doesn't do retina this way. [0] https://github.com/Eun/DisableMonitor https://github.com/Eun/DisableMonitor
    - veidr 6y ago
      That's interesting to hear, because my experience is that I really really _want_ to use Remote Desktop / Screen Sharing but the performance has gotten worse and worse over macOS releases, and it currently abysmal over gigabit, and even 10-gigabit, wired Ethernet. (I could not see any difference between 1Gbps and 10Gbps which made me think bandwidth is not the problem). I'd love for this to be some flaw in my own setup, though. I used to use this setup circa Mac OS X 10.6 and it worked very well (1Gbps wired connection). I could leave my home office and screen share in from the living room via my MacBook Pro from the living room, when I had to watch my kids or whatever. Today, I don't even try that. Command-Tab lags, yes, but almost everything lags to the point of being super-annoying to use. Even typing lags. I also have a Windows box in my office, and this setup basically works (even from my MBP). So I've been assuming this is one of those features that Apple has let degrade to the point of unusability. But am I wrong? I'd like to be. Are others using Screen Sharing or Remote Desktop on macOS with success beyond like click... wait... click... whew I got a system update installed? I mean, for like typing emails or coding? (One thing I'd been thinking of debugging was whether my office Mac having 3 5K screens is an issue — I am only trying to screenshare one of them, but maybe they have a bug or something where total pixels of the host kill perf even if those pixels aren't being shared.)
      - neurostimulant 6y ago
        Maybe try using a 3rd party remote desktop system with focus on performance instead of the standard vnc server included in mac? Parsec might work for your use case. The disadvantage is these kind of remote desktop system achieve the performance by utilizing lossy codecs instead of lossless compression used by vnc, so you might notice some banding/artefacts depending on your network condition / compression level. The advantage is the hardware encoding/decoding is very fast, even fast enough for gaming. https://parsec.app/ https://parsec.app/
      - aequitas 6y ago
        One issue I had is that it was constantly using the WiFi connection instead of the wired one. So I created a shortcut where I replaced the hostname with the wired IP address, this solved a lot of problems for me. For my usecase of development, it works fine. No noticable lag, even as I type this comment, also video calls and web browsing/scolling/youtube are fluid on 2560x1440 using around 7MB/s. With 3 5K screen I could image video memory or some GPU bandwidth being an issue, limiting the screensharing although sharing only 1 screen. But the problem must be either one of lag or one of bandwidth. Maybe try measuring network throughput and ping?
    - _ph_ 6y ago
      I have used it, but over wifi it is a bit laggy. Works for emergencies, but isn't really a replacement for a proper monitor connection.
  - sgt 6y ago
    It's about respect. How would you feel if you were an iMac and people just wanted to plug into you to use you as a screen?
    - neurostimulant 6y ago
      Apple already has Sidecar that turns your iPad into a monitor. It's not a stretch to enable that feature on Mac so you can turn your Mac into a monitor too whenever you need it for some reason.
      - _ph_ 6y ago
        That is another sad story. As far as I know, Sidecar works in both directions, you can use it to make your iMac a monitor for another mac. However, there is a huge catch: those two devices need to run on the same Apple ID. Which of course makes it impossible when trying to connect your work with your private computer. Of all companies, Apple should have an understanding of keeping your work files in a separate environment :p.
  - madeofpalk 6y ago
    I think it was just at the time when 5k iMacs were introduced there was no (good?) way to support that resolution over a thunderbolt or what, so support was dropped. Then it was just never added back...
    - bzzzt 6y ago
      The 5k iMac was really ahead of it's time in late 2014. I remember reading some technical blog talking about the custom designed driver board for that panel. The 2015 MacBook pro could drive a 5k panel using two displayport cables (some 5k monitors from that period supported that solution for full resolution at 60Hz), and with modern displayport there should be no problems, but maybe Apple does not really want their computers used as 'dumb' displays anymore...
- mrweasel 6y ago
  While it a useful feature, it was always an expensive and wasteful way of buying a secondary display. Arguable it was the only way of making a dual-display iMac setup look good.
  - fabioborellini 6y ago
    I wouldn't deem it wasteful. Monitors have evolved a lot slower than computer parts generally and using a monitor for a relatively long period is quite common with desktop PC users. A midrange 1920x1200 display bought 10 or 12 years ago is quite similar in specs compared to today's low end displays. A few years old 4K and 5K iMacs have high end integrated displays even from today's point of view, but their CPUs and especially GPUs are outdated for quite a few serious use cases. I think it would make a lot of sense to use one as a display for a new workstation setup. But obviously my described use case is a "second chance" for an iMac having served as a standalone computer until its EOL.
  - Lio 6y ago
    At one point people were speculating about monitors with eGPUs built in. What would be super cool is if Apple could take this further and you could use an iMac as both a second screen and off load work to the CPU and GPU. I'd like that from an eWaste perspective if nothing else. i.e. just add a new iMac to your existing set up. For myself I've been using the same external 27" Dell 1440 monitor for about 7 years. It's not like it's worn out in anyway.
  - yreg 6y ago
    Quite the contrary, I'd love to be able to continue using the 5K iMac as a screen once I get a new computer.
- sudhirj 6y ago
  It seems like this was a technical limitation more than a business one. Apple had to do some very non-standard stuff for 5K and that's when they stopped supporting the target display mode. See the article as well - the only was the author could get it work was with two display port connections, so if Apple were to support target display, they'd likely have to put in two display ports in the back just for that.
- jackpeterfletch 6y ago
  It would be nice if all all-in-ones / laptops had target display mode. The versatility would be great. The number of times I've wanted to use, say a console when the TVs taken, or use my mini-itx desktop away from home. Being able to plug into a laptop that im carrying anyway would be great.
- Terretta 6y ago
  At the same time, the latest iPad Pros connected to a Macbook via USB-C provide a remarkably convenient and performant second screen experience when doing dev or other creative (multi-screen) work on the road. The magnetic mount of the iPad Pro magic keyboard means you can just grab the iPad and pop it back, making it super convenient to use either way.
- awiesenhofer 6y ago
  Absolutley, I have 3 old iMacs with perfectly good displays that I could only use by running the computers attached to them (via VNC or similar). I would definitely pay 150 bucks like in TFA for a driverboard that would allow me to rip out the Mac-parts and only keep the display...
- frankus 6y ago
  Fingers crossed that they bring it back with the M-whatever iMacs when they come out. 100% speculating but I could see it being something that Intel's TB3 chips weren't set up to handle and that's why they dropped.
dangwu 6y ago
Very cool, but how exactly does that look less “hideous” than an LG UltraFine 5K? https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k-display https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k...
- ipsum2 6y ago
  Doesn't have the Apple logo? :) But it looks like it was ~$500 less than the LG version all in all, so a decent project.
  - amelius 6y ago
    It really baffles me that Apple fanboyism goes as far as putting non-Apple hardware into Apple cases. It's like voting with your wallet but still promoting the brand you didn't vote for.
- rangibaby 6y ago
  It looks like an iMac. That’s why people used to shell out big bucks for Apple-branded displays back when they were a thing
  - miles 6y ago
    > people used to shell out big bucks for Apple-branded displays back when they were a thing They still are: Pro Display XDR https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/ https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/
    - tpetry 6y ago
      The pricing of the Pro Display XR makes it kind of „vaporware“. The difference is it does exist, you can buy it but with this insance pricing almost no one will buy it. The old displays were a thing because they had really been affordable.
      - lloeki 6y ago
walrus01 6y ago
Question, why would it require two displayport cables and two outputs from a video card? A displayport 1.4 cable and connection are supposed to support 5K at 60Hz. Is that a limitation of the driver board? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort
- StillBored 6y ago
  if its the dell control board (I've got the dell) it predates the faster DP standards. It only supports 5k via dual link. Which is why a couple years ago when the newer 5k displays came out, I snapped up mine from some guy on ebay upgrading and selling it at fire sale prices (nothing like new hardware to lower the value of perfectly good old stuff).
  - phillipcaudell 6y ago
    This is correct! Though there is a newer driver board which supports USB-C (and thus one cable), but it's a lot more expensive. And since I was connecting to an 2015 iMac, wasn't needed in my case.
- andor 6y ago
  Because the Dell UP2715K has 10 bits per color channel, even DisplayPort 1.4 HBR3 would not be enough. It would work with Display Stream Compression, but that appears to be an optional feature of DP 1.4 that is not universally supported. Also, the compression is lossy. Additional speculation: all 5k displays on the market so far (LG, Dell, Iiyama, ...?) were made as Apple accessories, probably with Thunderbolt ports in mind. Because the market is not that large they might share some components. TB3 only requires DP 1.2, but can carry multiple streams. The expensive LG display includes a TB3 hub that demultiplexes the DisplayPort streams and sends them off to a dual-link DP controller. Less expensive displays leave out the Thunderbolt part and require dual DisplayPort inputs for full resolution.
  - andor 6y ago
    With HBR3, net bandwidth for uncompressed image data is 25.92 Gbit/s. 8bit 4k at 120Hz: >>> (3840 * 2160 * 24 * 120) / (1000*1000*1000) 23.887872 10bit 5k at 60Hz: >>> (5120 * 2880 * 30 * 60) / (1000*1000*1000) 26.54208
stevencorona 6y ago
It’s been slim picking for 5K monitors- especially if you’re not on OSX where thunderbolt dispay output is much more complicated. Besides the (now discontinued) Planar IX2790, which had severe quality control issues (went through 4- all with major dead pixels and burn-in), I don’t think there are any readily available DisplayPort-based 5K monitors out there :( Feels like hidpi displays have pretty much stagnated outside of apple ecosystem
- StillBored 6y ago
  Well 8k is the new hotness. There is the dell UP3218K for example. That said, 4k @ 27" vs 5k @ 27" is a bit of diminishing returns, and its hard to justify the price, when instead of a single 5k, one can get two 4k.
  - monadic6 6y ago
    Why is it 8k and not 16k? I thought it was proportional to the logarithm of the number of pixels.
    - tverbeure 6y ago
      We went from 1920 wide to 3840 to 7680. A step of 4x give or take in number of total pixels each time. It’s a logical progression? But either way, 8K is already pushing the limits of what today’s video transports can carry. 16K is currently impossible. Uncompressed 8K/60Hz requires >64% of the max BW of DisplayPort 2.0 (which is not even on the market yet.) That’s why he needed 2 DP cables. You can check out video timing requirements here: https://tomverbeure.github.io/video_timings_calculator https://tomverbeure.github.io/video_timings_calculator
    - AnthonBerg 6y ago
      I believe it's the result of the semi-random crystallization of the effective consensus about what word to use. Partly also what feels like "the next one after".
  - hyko 6y ago
auggierose 6y ago
Cool stuff, but doesn't look like a setup I would enjoy. I hate it when in front of me there is a gap between monitors. Instead, I am using a Dell 32inch directly in front of me, iMac 27inch to the right of me, and Dell 27inch portrait to the left of me.
- 3327 6y ago
  Nice tanning bed.
  - auggierose 6y ago
    I am using dark mode, mate. Also, I really don't have any need for artificial tanning :-)
- speleding 6y ago
  That's _exactly_ my setup. But I cannot understand why there are no reasonably priced 5K or 6K monitors of around 30-35 inch. I would buy one in a heartbeat.
  - auggierose 6y ago
    It will happen eventually. Until then, 4K is good enough for me.
  - eertami 6y ago
    >I cannot understand why there are no reasonably priced 5K or 6K monitors of around 30-35 inch Because it's a niche market and unless they become more popular they won't be produced at enough scale to bring the retail price down.
  - terminalcommand 6y ago
    I've got a modest 32 inch 4K monitor and I can't work on it comfortably without scaling it to 150%. With 5k or 6k I imagine I'd have to scale it more. 4K is sharp but it takes some work getting used to it. You don't gain that much screen real estate if you don't have eyes like a hawk.
baybal2 6y ago
Calling this "building an own display" is a bit of a stretch. He just wired a panel, off-the shelf driver board, ac-dc brick, and put it into body.
- andy_ppp 6y ago
  What were you expecting? Screen printing an OLED? Gluing together 14.7 million (=== 5k) LEDs for each channel? (-:
  - baybal2 6y ago
    Well, at least to not to use "tape, and glue" as an assembly method. Even if DP panels all have their real drivers, and tcons internally, there is still a lot left for a designer to do.
    - phillipcaudell 6y ago
      Tape and glue is literally how iMac panels are held on https://www.replacebase.co.uk/for-apple-imac-a1419-27-lcd-glass-panel-bonding-adhesive-kit https://www.replacebase.co.uk/for-apple-imac-a1419-27-lcd-gl...
    - Yaggo 6y ago
      Nothing wrong with tape or glue. Even car chassis parts are glued together!
      - baybal2 6y ago
        Tape, and glue are bad! Falling off glued door hinges on GM cars were an apex of engineering stupidity. Glue cannot provide stiffness as such. Hard adhesives, soft adhesives, filler, no filler, all inferior to any mechanical connection. Adhesive is usually the worst of possible compromises. Hard adhesive is stiff, but dies from most minuscule repeated stresses. Soft adhesive does not die to repeated stresses, but isn't stiff. High fill adhesive layers absorb loads, but can't stiffen anything. Low fill adhesive layers are stiff, but put all stress into the surface-adhesive interface. Even if you have it in a recessed niche, and use high fill soft adhesive over primed metal surface, you already made enough operations to warrant a proper joining method.
vishnugupta 6y ago
Tangential. Using my monitor in portrait mode has been a game changer for me. Now when I look back I wonder how is it that I wasted so much display space.
- aequitas 6y ago
  I got a 27" monitor which is essentially 2 portrait mode monitors fused together. When I could get hold of a 30" monitor years ago at work it was a real eye opener for me. I always had double screens but I tended to used only 2/3 of those screens and one was always to far off to the side to be more usefull than occasionally glance at. Now with a 27/30" screen I can have 2 windows side by side within my field of view, of 1 large windows and 2 smallers ones like terminal.
- colechristensen 6y ago
  I like a 4:5 display, but they don't really make them any more (or if they do, there's one or two choices)
  - fanf2 6y ago
    I currently have two 1200x1920 panels in portrait mode next to each other, and 2400x1920 is 5:4 It’s the aspect ratio I grew up with, but 14x the number of pixels and 4x the screen size, but probably half the weight and power consumption!
  - WildParser 6y ago
    1:1 is also nice. https://www.eizo.com/products/flexscan/ev2730q/ https://www.eizo.com/products/flexscan/ev2730q/
    - mchan 6y ago
      I'm using this monitor, and it has replaced a dual-screen FHD setup. The amount of vertical resolution is fantastic.
    - vxNsr 6y ago
      That... thing is disturbing to look at, that being said the first thing I started looking for was the price, and it’s predictably expensive considering that it’s just a great aspect ratio for a 1920p 26” screen. I’d pay about $500 for a square 2160p 30” screen. But then I’m a cheapskate and I have no way to justify even the $500 cost when I could get a couple 27” 2160p’s on sale for that.
sgt 6y ago
Very cool. I wouldn't mind having this. Right now my setup is my MBP and a 27 4K screen that I use as the primary. I thought about using two 4K or 5K screens and rather change to a Mac Mini, but in which direction would I be looking? If I'd look ahead with two screens, I would look at the space between the two screens. In other words, I actually prefer to have a "primary" screen and I keep wondering whether one actually needs another screen at all. What do you guys think?
- konha 6y ago
  I use a similar setup for the same reason. 32“ 4K Dell and a MBP. When I was still using a dual screen setup I had one in the center as primary and one at the side in portrait mode. Having dual screens next to each other with the space between the screens in front of you sounds like an ergonomic disaster. Some people seem not to mind though.
  - sgt 6y ago
    An option might be one primary large screen, then another screen next to it in portrait mode. Perfect for reading documents or displaying a dashboard.
adav 6y ago
Great project! I did a similar project 3 years ago to save the use of the great screen in a 2009(?) 24” iMac with a broken logic board. Learnt about LVDS and went the Chinese control board direction. First iteration was an HDMI cable poking out. Second interaction was integrating a Raspberry Pi for a new-old all-in-one PC - plus, it felt much snappier than the original Core 2 Duo workings from the Mac.
phillipcaudell 6y ago
Heya, I’m the guy who put this together. Let me know if you have any questions about it! I’ve had the setup for about a month now and absolutely love it.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  Great work! Can you link to the supplier of the driver board? How did you go about determining the board was ok to plug into a shinny new panel? My previous experiences with Aliexpress where a bit hit and miss. Either with issues of using obvious counterfeit parts or batch quality issues (order 100 and 70 are OK, etc.).
  - phillipcaudell 6y ago
    The supplier was great! I think I received it within a week of ordering (which considering I'm in the UK and it was coming from mainland China is pretty impressive). Here's a link to the exact part and supplier I used: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001192011831.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7cf34c4dqyIg1w https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001192011831.html?spm=a2g0s...
    - iams 6y ago
      would you be able to link to the panel you bought off ebay?
- vldx 6y ago
  Great work! How is the panel? Do you have any uniformity issues? In total, I've tried 7 units of LG 5K UltraFine (27MD5KA-B and 27MD5KL-B). All had [1] uneven brightness (visible on white background) and backlight bleed. Some of the units also exhibited tinting and/or faint vertical lines. I couldn't swallow these issues for the price that I've paid. Now I'm with Dell U2720Q, but I miss the high PPI of the 5K. [1] https://imgur.com/a/oVN3kTc#FGOzspK https://imgur.com/a/oVN3kTc#FGOzspK
  - pier25 6y ago
wilsonfiifi 6y ago
On a side note, for anyone planning to buy a monitor please spend the extra bucks to get one with adjustable height, tilt and rotation if possible. And if you've missed that boat then grab yourself a monitor stand and a Vesa mount/adapter from Humancentric [0]. [0] https://www.humancentric.com/collections/vesa-adapters https://www.humancentric.com/collections/vesa-adapters
- noir_lord 6y ago
  I use 2x27" 4K LG's (good panels for the money, ~£350 each) on a cheap (but honestly awesome for the money) dual vesa arm that is incredibly comfortable, having them up off the desk gives me more space on what isn't a huge desk (WFH) I couldn't go back to use regular stands, having the monitors essentially float in mid-air is ideal for me.
  - feteru 6y ago
    Any recommendations for the Vesa arm specifically? Looking to get one
    - milesvp 6y ago
      I’ve used amazon basics single arm wall mounts for the last 3 years, and dual arm deskmount for the last 2 years. They are pretty good quality, I’ve had no reason to look to replace them with another brand. edit: apparently I have the premium version. Not sure they used to be called premium. The spring mechanism counterweight makes adjustments to my 27 and 24 inch monitors seemless.
    - noir_lord 6y ago
      I have this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLEXIMOUNTS-F6D-Dual-monitor-mount-lcd-arm-for-17-30-Computer-Monitor-Gas-or-/224291798623 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLEXIMOUNTS-F6D-Dual-monitor-moun... It’s great and handles the two screens fine, can lock it off by tightening up the Allen headed bolts once you have it just so.
    - adanto6840 6y ago
konart 6y ago
Always wanted to do the same ever since I saw this project in german back in 2019. https://youtu.be/hzTVe6aVgww https://youtu.be/hzTVe6aVgww
happynacho 6y ago
I've seen similar builds like this on /r/hackintosh and other DIY. Have you found a driver board that uses a single DP1.4? Two 1.2 would limit me to a single one and wanna run 2.
- phillipcaudell 6y ago
  There's a newer board that uses a single USB-C cable, but it's a bit more expensive: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001084086628.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1e6b5dd2l6QZHi&algo_pvid=5a52e46a-07f4-4531-86b6-b021e250e977&algo_expid=5a52e46a-07f4-4531-86b6-b021e250e977-2&btsid=2100bdcf16145987691174501e0ebb&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001084086628.html?spm=a2g0o...
vsskanth 6y ago
I wish they made more 5k monitors. Integer scaling looks so much better even on windows which supports fractional scaling
awiesenhofer 6y ago
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1352692104707919872.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1352692104707919872.html
pkamb 6y ago
Someone should release a "kit"... the new boards and power supply could even sit inside a nicely designed backpack enclosure on the stand. Is there any possibility of accessing the needed display connectors via the RAM door or via a surgical cut in the back case? Removing the screen is what I don't want to do.
- spitfire 6y ago
  I'd pay a bit for a kit to upgrade a Cinema Display to 5K. I"m writing on a Cinema Display right now. It's a fantastic display with great design, but needs a resolution bump.
foxfired 6y ago
I love these. I had stopped tinkering with devices many years ago. These days you can't even replace the ram of a machine without spending a week making sure it is compatible. Nevertheless it is still possible. I got my inspiration back after watching [DIY Perks](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUQo7nzH1sXVpzL92VesANw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUQo7nzH1sXVpzL92VesANw) on youtube. If you want a much more detailed instruction on how to build these screens, I highly recommend him. As intimidating as all our devices are today, all you need is to unglue the plastic housing to reveal their secrets. PS: people love to throw away perfectly fine electronics. There is no shortage of practice devices by the dumpster. Edit: typo
- godman_8 6y ago
  What? Mobo/RAM compatibility has never been better.
  - meibo 6y ago
    Only if you buy real PC hardware, and not a smartphone stuck into a fancy laptop shell.
vgchh 6y ago
Nice work! I recently got an LG Ultrafine 5K for my MBP M1. Definitely not as sleek as the iMac. Though the all black/rugged look is growing on me.
musicale 6y ago
I wish Apple would bring back Target Display Mode for iMacs. There is perhaps some hope since we do have SideCar on the iPad.

260 points by dsr12 6y ago

hyko 6y ago

So disappointing that modern iMacs don’t have target display mode.

_ph_ 6y ago
This is something I just can't comprehend. For work, I am using a 16" MB Pro and I had to get a separate screen for it as I cannot connect it to my iMac for display. One would think it isn't too uncommon for iMac owners also to have a laptop. And if I could use my iMac as a screen, I might have grabbed a M1 Mac already. Instead I am waiting on a refreshed iMac.
- aequitas 6y ago
  I use Screen Sharing to have my Macbook screen show on my iMac. Works flawless over Gigabit, except that cmd-tab sometimes lags. There are tools available[0] that allow you to set a higher resolution for a screen than what would be sensibly supported by the LCD panel. Although it doesn't do retina this way. [0] https://github.com/Eun/DisableMonitor https://github.com/Eun/DisableMonitor
  - veidr 6y ago
    That's interesting to hear, because my experience is that I really really _want_ to use Remote Desktop / Screen Sharing but the performance has gotten worse and worse over macOS releases, and it currently abysmal over gigabit, and even 10-gigabit, wired Ethernet. (I could not see any difference between 1Gbps and 10Gbps which made me think bandwidth is not the problem). I'd love for this to be some flaw in my own setup, though. I used to use this setup circa Mac OS X 10.6 and it worked very well (1Gbps wired connection). I could leave my home office and screen share in from the living room via my MacBook Pro from the living room, when I had to watch my kids or whatever. Today, I don't even try that. Command-Tab lags, yes, but almost everything lags to the point of being super-annoying to use. Even typing lags. I also have a Windows box in my office, and this setup basically works (even from my MBP). So I've been assuming this is one of those features that Apple has let degrade to the point of unusability. But am I wrong? I'd like to be. Are others using Screen Sharing or Remote Desktop on macOS with success beyond like click... wait... click... whew I got a system update installed? I mean, for like typing emails or coding? (One thing I'd been thinking of debugging was whether my office Mac having 3 5K screens is an issue — I am only trying to screenshare one of them, but maybe they have a bug or something where total pixels of the host kill perf even if those pixels aren't being shared.)
    - neurostimulant 6y ago
      Maybe try using a 3rd party remote desktop system with focus on performance instead of the standard vnc server included in mac? Parsec might work for your use case. The disadvantage is these kind of remote desktop system achieve the performance by utilizing lossy codecs instead of lossless compression used by vnc, so you might notice some banding/artefacts depending on your network condition / compression level. The advantage is the hardware encoding/decoding is very fast, even fast enough for gaming. https://parsec.app/ https://parsec.app/
    - aequitas 6y ago
      One issue I had is that it was constantly using the WiFi connection instead of the wired one. So I created a shortcut where I replaced the hostname with the wired IP address, this solved a lot of problems for me. For my usecase of development, it works fine. No noticable lag, even as I type this comment, also video calls and web browsing/scolling/youtube are fluid on 2560x1440 using around 7MB/s. With 3 5K screen I could image video memory or some GPU bandwidth being an issue, limiting the screensharing although sharing only 1 screen. But the problem must be either one of lag or one of bandwidth. Maybe try measuring network throughput and ping?
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    I have used it, but over wifi it is a bit laggy. Works for emergencies, but isn't really a replacement for a proper monitor connection.
- sgt 6y ago
  It's about respect. How would you feel if you were an iMac and people just wanted to plug into you to use you as a screen?
  - neurostimulant 6y ago
    Apple already has Sidecar that turns your iPad into a monitor. It's not a stretch to enable that feature on Mac so you can turn your Mac into a monitor too whenever you need it for some reason.
    - _ph_ 6y ago
      That is another sad story. As far as I know, Sidecar works in both directions, you can use it to make your iMac a monitor for another mac. However, there is a huge catch: those two devices need to run on the same Apple ID. Which of course makes it impossible when trying to connect your work with your private computer. Of all companies, Apple should have an understanding of keeping your work files in a separate environment :p.
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  I think it was just at the time when 5k iMacs were introduced there was no (good?) way to support that resolution over a thunderbolt or what, so support was dropped. Then it was just never added back...
  - bzzzt 6y ago
    The 5k iMac was really ahead of it's time in late 2014. I remember reading some technical blog talking about the custom designed driver board for that panel. The 2015 MacBook pro could drive a 5k panel using two displayport cables (some 5k monitors from that period supported that solution for full resolution at 60Hz), and with modern displayport there should be no problems, but maybe Apple does not really want their computers used as 'dumb' displays anymore...
mrweasel 6y ago
While it a useful feature, it was always an expensive and wasteful way of buying a secondary display. Arguable it was the only way of making a dual-display iMac setup look good.
- fabioborellini 6y ago
  I wouldn't deem it wasteful. Monitors have evolved a lot slower than computer parts generally and using a monitor for a relatively long period is quite common with desktop PC users. A midrange 1920x1200 display bought 10 or 12 years ago is quite similar in specs compared to today's low end displays. A few years old 4K and 5K iMacs have high end integrated displays even from today's point of view, but their CPUs and especially GPUs are outdated for quite a few serious use cases. I think it would make a lot of sense to use one as a display for a new workstation setup. But obviously my described use case is a "second chance" for an iMac having served as a standalone computer until its EOL.
- Lio 6y ago
  At one point people were speculating about monitors with eGPUs built in. What would be super cool is if Apple could take this further and you could use an iMac as both a second screen and off load work to the CPU and GPU. I'd like that from an eWaste perspective if nothing else. i.e. just add a new iMac to your existing set up. For myself I've been using the same external 27" Dell 1440 monitor for about 7 years. It's not like it's worn out in anyway.
- yreg 6y ago
  Quite the contrary, I'd love to be able to continue using the 5K iMac as a screen once I get a new computer.
sudhirj 6y ago
It seems like this was a technical limitation more than a business one. Apple had to do some very non-standard stuff for 5K and that's when they stopped supporting the target display mode. See the article as well - the only was the author could get it work was with two display port connections, so if Apple were to support target display, they'd likely have to put in two display ports in the back just for that.
jackpeterfletch 6y ago
It would be nice if all all-in-ones / laptops had target display mode. The versatility would be great. The number of times I've wanted to use, say a console when the TVs taken, or use my mini-itx desktop away from home. Being able to plug into a laptop that im carrying anyway would be great.
Terretta 6y ago
At the same time, the latest iPad Pros connected to a Macbook via USB-C provide a remarkably convenient and performant second screen experience when doing dev or other creative (multi-screen) work on the road. The magnetic mount of the iPad Pro magic keyboard means you can just grab the iPad and pop it back, making it super convenient to use either way.
awiesenhofer 6y ago
Absolutley, I have 3 old iMacs with perfectly good displays that I could only use by running the computers attached to them (via VNC or similar). I would definitely pay 150 bucks like in TFA for a driverboard that would allow me to rip out the Mac-parts and only keep the display...
frankus 6y ago
Fingers crossed that they bring it back with the M-whatever iMacs when they come out. 100% speculating but I could see it being something that Intel's TB3 chips weren't set up to handle and that's why they dropped.

dangwu 6y ago

Very cool, but how exactly does that look less “hideous” than an LG UltraFine 5K? https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k-display https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k...

ipsum2 6y ago
Doesn't have the Apple logo? :) But it looks like it was ~$500 less than the LG version all in all, so a decent project.
- amelius 6y ago
  It really baffles me that Apple fanboyism goes as far as putting non-Apple hardware into Apple cases. It's like voting with your wallet but still promoting the brand you didn't vote for.
rangibaby 6y ago
It looks like an iMac. That’s why people used to shell out big bucks for Apple-branded displays back when they were a thing
- miles 6y ago
  > people used to shell out big bucks for Apple-branded displays back when they were a thing They still are: Pro Display XDR https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/ https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/
  - tpetry 6y ago
    The pricing of the Pro Display XR makes it kind of „vaporware“. The difference is it does exist, you can buy it but with this insance pricing almost no one will buy it. The old displays were a thing because they had really been affordable.
    - lloeki 6y ago

walrus01 6y ago

Question, why would it require two displayport cables and two outputs from a video card? A displayport 1.4 cable and connection are supposed to support 5K at 60Hz. Is that a limitation of the driver board? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort

StillBored 6y ago
if its the dell control board (I've got the dell) it predates the faster DP standards. It only supports 5k via dual link. Which is why a couple years ago when the newer 5k displays came out, I snapped up mine from some guy on ebay upgrading and selling it at fire sale prices (nothing like new hardware to lower the value of perfectly good old stuff).
- phillipcaudell 6y ago
  This is correct! Though there is a newer driver board which supports USB-C (and thus one cable), but it's a lot more expensive. And since I was connecting to an 2015 iMac, wasn't needed in my case.
andor 6y ago
Because the Dell UP2715K has 10 bits per color channel, even DisplayPort 1.4 HBR3 would not be enough. It would work with Display Stream Compression, but that appears to be an optional feature of DP 1.4 that is not universally supported. Also, the compression is lossy. Additional speculation: all 5k displays on the market so far (LG, Dell, Iiyama, ...?) were made as Apple accessories, probably with Thunderbolt ports in mind. Because the market is not that large they might share some components. TB3 only requires DP 1.2, but can carry multiple streams. The expensive LG display includes a TB3 hub that demultiplexes the DisplayPort streams and sends them off to a dual-link DP controller. Less expensive displays leave out the Thunderbolt part and require dual DisplayPort inputs for full resolution.
- andor 6y ago
  With HBR3, net bandwidth for uncompressed image data is 25.92 Gbit/s. 8bit 4k at 120Hz: >>> (3840 * 2160 * 24 * 120) / (1000*1000*1000) 23.887872 10bit 5k at 60Hz: >>> (5120 * 2880 * 30 * 60) / (1000*1000*1000) 26.54208

stevencorona 6y ago

It’s been slim picking for 5K monitors- especially if you’re not on OSX where thunderbolt dispay output is much more complicated. Besides the (now discontinued) Planar IX2790, which had severe quality control issues (went through 4- all with major dead pixels and burn-in), I don’t think there are any readily available DisplayPort-based 5K monitors out there :( Feels like hidpi displays have pretty much stagnated outside of apple ecosystem

StillBored 6y ago
Well 8k is the new hotness. There is the dell UP3218K for example. That said, 4k @ 27" vs 5k @ 27" is a bit of diminishing returns, and its hard to justify the price, when instead of a single 5k, one can get two 4k.
- monadic6 6y ago
  Why is it 8k and not 16k? I thought it was proportional to the logarithm of the number of pixels.
  - tverbeure 6y ago
    We went from 1920 wide to 3840 to 7680. A step of 4x give or take in number of total pixels each time. It’s a logical progression? But either way, 8K is already pushing the limits of what today’s video transports can carry. 16K is currently impossible. Uncompressed 8K/60Hz requires >64% of the max BW of DisplayPort 2.0 (which is not even on the market yet.) That’s why he needed 2 DP cables. You can check out video timing requirements here: https://tomverbeure.github.io/video_timings_calculator https://tomverbeure.github.io/video_timings_calculator
  - AnthonBerg 6y ago
    I believe it's the result of the semi-random crystallization of the effective consensus about what word to use. Partly also what feels like "the next one after".
- hyko 6y ago

auggierose 6y ago

Cool stuff, but doesn't look like a setup I would enjoy. I hate it when in front of me there is a gap between monitors. Instead, I am using a Dell 32inch directly in front of me, iMac 27inch to the right of me, and Dell 27inch portrait to the left of me.

3327 6y ago
Nice tanning bed.
- auggierose 6y ago
  I am using dark mode, mate. Also, I really don't have any need for artificial tanning :-)
speleding 6y ago
That's _exactly_ my setup. But I cannot understand why there are no reasonably priced 5K or 6K monitors of around 30-35 inch. I would buy one in a heartbeat.
- auggierose 6y ago
  It will happen eventually. Until then, 4K is good enough for me.
- eertami 6y ago
  >I cannot understand why there are no reasonably priced 5K or 6K monitors of around 30-35 inch Because it's a niche market and unless they become more popular they won't be produced at enough scale to bring the retail price down.
- terminalcommand 6y ago
  I've got a modest 32 inch 4K monitor and I can't work on it comfortably without scaling it to 150%. With 5k or 6k I imagine I'd have to scale it more. 4K is sharp but it takes some work getting used to it. You don't gain that much screen real estate if you don't have eyes like a hawk.

baybal2 6y ago

Calling this "building an own display" is a bit of a stretch. He just wired a panel, off-the shelf driver board, ac-dc brick, and put it into body.

andy_ppp 6y ago
What were you expecting? Screen printing an OLED? Gluing together 14.7 million (=== 5k) LEDs for each channel? (-:
- baybal2 6y ago
  Well, at least to not to use "tape, and glue" as an assembly method. Even if DP panels all have their real drivers, and tcons internally, there is still a lot left for a designer to do.
  - phillipcaudell 6y ago
    Tape and glue is literally how iMac panels are held on https://www.replacebase.co.uk/for-apple-imac-a1419-27-lcd-glass-panel-bonding-adhesive-kit https://www.replacebase.co.uk/for-apple-imac-a1419-27-lcd-gl...
  - Yaggo 6y ago
    Nothing wrong with tape or glue. Even car chassis parts are glued together!
    - baybal2 6y ago
      Tape, and glue are bad! Falling off glued door hinges on GM cars were an apex of engineering stupidity. Glue cannot provide stiffness as such. Hard adhesives, soft adhesives, filler, no filler, all inferior to any mechanical connection. Adhesive is usually the worst of possible compromises. Hard adhesive is stiff, but dies from most minuscule repeated stresses. Soft adhesive does not die to repeated stresses, but isn't stiff. High fill adhesive layers absorb loads, but can't stiffen anything. Low fill adhesive layers are stiff, but put all stress into the surface-adhesive interface. Even if you have it in a recessed niche, and use high fill soft adhesive over primed metal surface, you already made enough operations to warrant a proper joining method.

vishnugupta 6y ago

Tangential. Using my monitor in portrait mode has been a game changer for me. Now when I look back I wonder how is it that I wasted so much display space.

aequitas 6y ago
I got a 27" monitor which is essentially 2 portrait mode monitors fused together. When I could get hold of a 30" monitor years ago at work it was a real eye opener for me. I always had double screens but I tended to used only 2/3 of those screens and one was always to far off to the side to be more usefull than occasionally glance at. Now with a 27/30" screen I can have 2 windows side by side within my field of view, of 1 large windows and 2 smallers ones like terminal.
colechristensen 6y ago
I like a 4:5 display, but they don't really make them any more (or if they do, there's one or two choices)
- fanf2 6y ago
  I currently have two 1200x1920 panels in portrait mode next to each other, and 2400x1920 is 5:4 It’s the aspect ratio I grew up with, but 14x the number of pixels and 4x the screen size, but probably half the weight and power consumption!
- WildParser 6y ago
  1:1 is also nice. https://www.eizo.com/products/flexscan/ev2730q/ https://www.eizo.com/products/flexscan/ev2730q/
  - mchan 6y ago
    I'm using this monitor, and it has replaced a dual-screen FHD setup. The amount of vertical resolution is fantastic.
  - vxNsr 6y ago
    That... thing is disturbing to look at, that being said the first thing I started looking for was the price, and it’s predictably expensive considering that it’s just a great aspect ratio for a 1920p 26” screen. I’d pay about $500 for a square 2160p 30” screen. But then I’m a cheapskate and I have no way to justify even the $500 cost when I could get a couple 27” 2160p’s on sale for that.

sgt 6y ago

Very cool. I wouldn't mind having this. Right now my setup is my MBP and a 27 4K screen that I use as the primary. I thought about using two 4K or 5K screens and rather change to a Mac Mini, but in which direction would I be looking? If I'd look ahead with two screens, I would look at the space between the two screens. In other words, I actually prefer to have a "primary" screen and I keep wondering whether one actually needs another screen at all. What do you guys think?

konha 6y ago
I use a similar setup for the same reason. 32“ 4K Dell and a MBP. When I was still using a dual screen setup I had one in the center as primary and one at the side in portrait mode. Having dual screens next to each other with the space between the screens in front of you sounds like an ergonomic disaster. Some people seem not to mind though.
- sgt 6y ago
  An option might be one primary large screen, then another screen next to it in portrait mode. Perfect for reading documents or displaying a dashboard.

adav 6y ago

Great project! I did a similar project 3 years ago to save the use of the great screen in a 2009(?) 24” iMac with a broken logic board. Learnt about LVDS and went the Chinese control board direction. First iteration was an HDMI cable poking out. Second interaction was integrating a Raspberry Pi for a new-old all-in-one PC - plus, it felt much snappier than the original Core 2 Duo workings from the Mac.

phillipcaudell 6y ago

Heya, I’m the guy who put this together. Let me know if you have any questions about it! I’ve had the setup for about a month now and absolutely love it.

DoingIsLearning 6y ago
Great work! Can you link to the supplier of the driver board? How did you go about determining the board was ok to plug into a shinny new panel? My previous experiences with Aliexpress where a bit hit and miss. Either with issues of using obvious counterfeit parts or batch quality issues (order 100 and 70 are OK, etc.).
- phillipcaudell 6y ago
  The supplier was great! I think I received it within a week of ordering (which considering I'm in the UK and it was coming from mainland China is pretty impressive). Here's a link to the exact part and supplier I used: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001192011831.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7cf34c4dqyIg1w https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001192011831.html?spm=a2g0s...
  - iams 6y ago
    would you be able to link to the panel you bought off ebay?
vldx 6y ago
Great work! How is the panel? Do you have any uniformity issues? In total, I've tried 7 units of LG 5K UltraFine (27MD5KA-B and 27MD5KL-B). All had [1] uneven brightness (visible on white background) and backlight bleed. Some of the units also exhibited tinting and/or faint vertical lines. I couldn't swallow these issues for the price that I've paid. Now I'm with Dell U2720Q, but I miss the high PPI of the 5K. [1] https://imgur.com/a/oVN3kTc#FGOzspK https://imgur.com/a/oVN3kTc#FGOzspK
- pier25 6y ago

wilsonfiifi 6y ago

On a side note, for anyone planning to buy a monitor please spend the extra bucks to get one with adjustable height, tilt and rotation if possible. And if you've missed that boat then grab yourself a monitor stand and a Vesa mount/adapter from Humancentric [0]. [0] https://www.humancentric.com/collections/vesa-adapters https://www.humancentric.com/collections/vesa-adapters

noir_lord 6y ago
I use 2x27" 4K LG's (good panels for the money, ~£350 each) on a cheap (but honestly awesome for the money) dual vesa arm that is incredibly comfortable, having them up off the desk gives me more space on what isn't a huge desk (WFH) I couldn't go back to use regular stands, having the monitors essentially float in mid-air is ideal for me.
- feteru 6y ago
  Any recommendations for the Vesa arm specifically? Looking to get one
  - milesvp 6y ago
    I’ve used amazon basics single arm wall mounts for the last 3 years, and dual arm deskmount for the last 2 years. They are pretty good quality, I’ve had no reason to look to replace them with another brand. edit: apparently I have the premium version. Not sure they used to be called premium. The spring mechanism counterweight makes adjustments to my 27 and 24 inch monitors seemless.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    I have this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLEXIMOUNTS-F6D-Dual-monitor-mount-lcd-arm-for-17-30-Computer-Monitor-Gas-or-/224291798623 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLEXIMOUNTS-F6D-Dual-monitor-moun... It’s great and handles the two screens fine, can lock it off by tightening up the Allen headed bolts once you have it just so.
  - adanto6840 6y ago

konart 6y ago

Always wanted to do the same ever since I saw this project in german back in 2019. https://youtu.be/hzTVe6aVgww https://youtu.be/hzTVe6aVgww

happynacho 6y ago

I've seen similar builds like this on /r/hackintosh and other DIY. Have you found a driver board that uses a single DP1.4? Two 1.2 would limit me to a single one and wanna run 2.

phillipcaudell 6y ago
There's a newer board that uses a single USB-C cable, but it's a bit more expensive: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001084086628.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1e6b5dd2l6QZHi&algo_pvid=5a52e46a-07f4-4531-86b6-b021e250e977&algo_expid=5a52e46a-07f4-4531-86b6-b021e250e977-2&btsid=2100bdcf16145987691174501e0ebb&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001084086628.html?spm=a2g0o...

vsskanth 6y ago

I wish they made more 5k monitors. Integer scaling looks so much better even on windows which supports fractional scaling

awiesenhofer 6y ago

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1352692104707919872.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1352692104707919872.html

pkamb 6y ago

Someone should release a "kit"... the new boards and power supply could even sit inside a nicely designed backpack enclosure on the stand. Is there any possibility of accessing the needed display connectors via the RAM door or via a surgical cut in the back case? Removing the screen is what I don't want to do.

spitfire 6y ago
I'd pay a bit for a kit to upgrade a Cinema Display to 5K. I"m writing on a Cinema Display right now. It's a fantastic display with great design, but needs a resolution bump.

foxfired 6y ago

I love these. I had stopped tinkering with devices many years ago. These days you can't even replace the ram of a machine without spending a week making sure it is compatible. Nevertheless it is still possible. I got my inspiration back after watching [DIY Perks](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUQo7nzH1sXVpzL92VesANw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUQo7nzH1sXVpzL92VesANw) on youtube. If you want a much more detailed instruction on how to build these screens, I highly recommend him. As intimidating as all our devices are today, all you need is to unglue the plastic housing to reveal their secrets. PS: people love to throw away perfectly fine electronics. There is no shortage of practice devices by the dumpster. Edit: typo

godman_8 6y ago
What? Mobo/RAM compatibility has never been better.
- meibo 6y ago
  Only if you buy real PC hardware, and not a smartphone stuck into a fancy laptop shell.

vgchh 6y ago

Nice work! I recently got an LG Ultrafine 5K for my MBP M1. Definitely not as sleek as the iMac. Though the all black/rugged look is growing on me.

musicale 6y ago

I wish Apple would bring back Target Display Mode for iMacs. There is perhaps some hope since we do have SideCar on the iPad.