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Fun fact: This is not the first time a space program has flown on another planet. The Soviets launched weather balloons on Venus during the Venera missions [1]
by julienchastang 6y ago
Fun fact: This is not the first time a space program has flown on another planet. The Soviets launched weather balloons on Venus during the Venera missions [1]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega_program#Balloon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega_program#Balloon
- endymi0n 6y agoThis is so cool, I didn‘t know about these yet and I‘d call myself a space buff... Speaking of flight and picking the nits here — looks like Wikipedia also isn‘t completely correct here: > It is planned to make the first powered flight on any planet beyond Earth ...arguably the first _powered_ flights were done by the sky cranes of Opportunity and Perseverance
- svachalek 6y agoIt seems that rocket propulsion does not count as “powered flight”
- alpaca128 6y ago> ...arguably the first _powered_ flights were done by the sky cranes of Opportunity and Perseverance Not the Apollo 11 lunar module? In contrast to the sky cranes it actually lifted off again.
- m4rtink 6y agoOn Mars the Viking probes used rockets for controlled landing, so that likely also counts. Pathfinder just had one shot braking rockets.
- dal 6y agoThe moon is not a planet.
- rriepe 6y agoI'd argue Mars is still the most impressive. Rockets in no atmosphere is easy. Floating on Venus is easy because it has more atmo than any other rocky planet. Figuring out something that works well in Mars' thin (but still there) atmosphere, especially a helicopter, is really impressive. The celestial body classification is just a cherry on top.
- dotancohen 6y agoBy many definitions the Earth-Moon system is a dual planetary system. The moon has more that 1% the mass of the Earth, which is by far the largest primary-secondary "not a planet" system in the solar system. Only not-a-planet Pluto and Charon exceed it. Also, Isaac Asimov considered the system a dual-planet system as the Moon's path around the sun is at no point convex nor retrograde.
- jojobas 6y agoEarth-Moon centre of mass is inside Earth, so, it's obvious that the Moon is orbiting the Earth, not both orbiting something else. 1% is an arbitrary threshold and solar orbit is dependent on external circumstances rather than the Earth-Moon system itself.
- m4rtink 6y agoOn the Moon the first controlled powered flights were likely the Surveyor and Luna probes - they had braking and landing thrusters controlled by onboard avionics.
- SideburnsOfDoom 6y agoPowered? definitely. But Flight? A rocket has no fixed or rotating wing providing lift, so maybe not.
- tus89 6y agoIf we understand "flight" as being the use of a wing to generate lift in an atmosphere, then I think we can safely say this is the first time we have flown on another planet. I assume this little helicopter actually has rotary wings rather than fans.
- contravariant 6y agoIf we're splitting hairs then the lack of control seems like a better criterion to distinguish the two. If you ask me there's no reason a zeppelin would be inherently less 'flighty' than a helicopter.
- tus89 6y agoI think they are more "floaty" that "flighty" :P
- johnwalkr 6y agoIn the space industry, “flight” is used for all types of vehicles so I’d also argue to use that very broad definition rather than terrestrial terminology.
- contravariant 6y agoAnd even on Earth the term "flight" doesn't really care about the method, you've got 'balloon flights' for instance.
- rhino369 6y agoThe common understanding of flight definitely doesn't include lighter than air (well atmosphere in this case) vehicles. The first flight was in 1903, not 300 BC China when they used sky lanterns.
- monkeydreams 6y ago> The first flight was in 1903 The first powered flight was in 1903, with the criteria that it was not gravity assisted, that it was sustained and that it was controlled. No one is claiming that it was the first flight ever.
- taf2 6y agoFor sure the soviets did some neat science work but I think a motorized helicopters flying on Mars is pretty darn cool too compared to a ballon floating in a dense atmosphere it even feels like an advancement
- tachyonbeam 6y agoThey're both cool because they're both technological firsts. The weather balloon on Venus was in 1985, a whole 35 years ago! https://www.nytimes.com/1985/06/12/us/soviet-drops-weather-balloon-into-air-of-venus.html https://www.nytimes.com/1985/06/12/us/soviet-drops-weather-b...
- macintux 6y agoAbsolutely. The Soviets did some incredibly impressive work with Venus.
- TedShiller 6y agoA balloon is barely an aircraft
- tachyonbeam 6y agoA solar drone that takes hours to charge and flies only a minute at a time is barely an aircraft too. Don't get me wrong, it's a very cool tech demo and I can't wait to see the video, but IMO if your goal is to take pressure/composition measurements in the atmosphere at a variety of altitudes, a weather balloon is the right tool for the job.
- buzzerbetrayed 6y agoNobody is arguing that it isn't the "right tool for the job". Just that a balloon isn't an aircraft. While a drone that flies for a minute at a time clearly is.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ChuckMcM 6y agoAnd given the density of Venus' atmosphere, here is a fun thought experiment. It may be possible to make 'titanium' balloons for longer term operation. The would work by creating the balloon envelope on earth, have a sealing mechanism that you activated in orbit so they had vacuum inside. And then drop them into the atmosphere. Same idea a glass floats on fishing nets[1] except with titanium (so they can withstand the compression forces given they have a vacuum inside). It might be useful/necessary to put some additional structure inside the envelope for strength but like eggs, the sphere is a pretty good shape for distributing compressive force. Anyway, put a number of them on tethers attached to the instrument payload and drop it off into the atmosphere once you've gone trans-sonic with parachutes or retro rockets. The platform will then fall to the point where the lifting force of the floats is equal to the weight of the platform. Ideally the titanium would be impervious to the atmospherics's corrosive effects. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_float https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_float
- xadhominemx 6y agoVenus’s atmosphere is 100x denser than earth’s, so you could just seal the metal balloons at sea level pressure and it wouldn’t really make a difference. Or you could seal them in a vacuum on earth. Not sure why you would need to feel them in space.
- simcop2387 6y agoWeight and volume. The air has weight so it'll cost more to launch. The volume would also make them more difficult to launch. Assembling or unfolding in space near earth would allow you to make them larger and inspect them before they leave for venus.
- minitoar 6y agoI could see reusing an empty fuel tank or something as a cute way of doing this.
- 6y ago
- causality0 6y agoIt's actually not even the first time a powered aircraft has flown on Mars. Both Curiosity's and Perseverance's descent stages were powered aircraft that, after releasing the rovers, flew up and away from them in a controlled manner through the air.