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This whole thing is especially painful/annoying since they neither support backing up the database nor syncing/importing old messages from the phone. So if this

This whole thing is especially painful/annoying since they neither support backing up the database nor syncing/importing old messages from the phone. So if this happens there's no known/reliable way to recover (even though the data is still on the phone). (In theory it should be possible to recover from this and I can still access my sqlcipher database manually but Electron and the stateful Signal protocol make it extremely difficult so I gave up. Multiple backups of the whole ~/.config/Signal directory didn't help either.) (See: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/4513#issuecomment-756830788 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/4513#issu... )

ancarda 6y ago
>they neither support backing up the database nor syncing/importing old messages from the phone Why Signal doesn't support this is beyond me. I can basically only use it for scenarios where I don't want any chat history, which just isn't that common.
satysin 6y ago
Yes and this has been my biggest complaint for literally years but whenever I say "Signal needs a top tier backup system asap" I get moaned at with responses like "Signal is a messaging app not email, if you want to backup a message just do that one message." or "Why would you want a whole conversation backup?!" as if I am some weirdo for wanting to have a backup. Does my fucking head in. Yes Signal is about security but that doesn't mean it can't have a functional backup feature! Honestly it needs to be priority number one imho. This bug shows just how important backups and importing conversations are. Whenever I setup Signal on a new system I hate when I see the message "For your security, conversation history isn't transferred to new linked devices." Signal doesn't (or at least shouldn't) get to decide what happens here. If I am having to re-register because of a Signal failure my security is not effected by importing the conversation history as it was there two minutes ago before they corrupted the database. At the very least they should make it an option even if it is disabled by default. Apologies for the ranty nature of this comment but I am fed up with this absolutely pathetic denial that backups are important because it is "just a messaging app". AHHH! Edit: See this reply from when I complained about the lack of backup a month ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25687851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25687851
- capableweb 6y ago
  Is it maybe possible that different people have different attack vectors they need to consider and backups are usually a weak-point for some of those people? I understand it's frustrating when a (open source, forkable) application doesn't work the way you want it to, but you have to be able to see it from the other side as well. Signal is signalling that chats are ephemeral and treating them as something else introduces security and privacy issues _in the way they are thinking about it_. It's very possible that's not an issue for you, but that doesn't make Signal wrong, is just make the two of you misaligned on why Signal exists. Signal is not for everyone and I think the team themselves make that pretty clear. Signal is for private and secure communications, and make no compromises that would lower either the privacy or the security, they rather compromise on other ends. These kind of comments show the entitled parts of the internet, where open source software HAS to work a particular way otherwise ITS BROKEN AND HORRIBLE. There are tradeoffs to everything. In this case, Signal made tradeoffs that you feel are wrong. You have a couple of choices, none of them include screaming that Signal should change their priorities based on your opionion: 1) continue using it anyways, start treating chats as ephemeral, 2) try to fork Signal and show us you can do it better or 3) dump Signal for a messenger that works the way you want it to. In the end, there are multiple chat apps, use the right app for the right use case. Signal is definitely not a app for one-size-fits-them-all and it's pretty clear they are not trying to either.
  - ximeng 6y ago
    Realistically none of these are very good options. Starting a competitive messenger application is likely to be impossible - Signal got to where it is thanks in large part to 50mn USD from Whatsapp's founder. The fact that it's very difficult means that there aren't a huge number of competitive choices, and none that are "Signal but you can access your data". So even though complaining is not a great option, it might be the most likely way to get what is wanted, whether by someone from Signal seeing the request and agreeing, or someone else seeing there is a market for this. If you have a choice between Whatsapp (metadata not private, but has backup) versus Signal (metadata private but no backup), if you need backup (or anyone you communicate with does), you lose privacy because you're forced to use Whatsapp. Arguably because of Signal's refusal to "compromise" on privacy by allowing backups you have lost privacy anyway.
orblivion 6y ago
When you say you can't import/sync data from your phone - Couldn't you just decommission Signal Desktop from your phone, nuke the desktop installation, and reinstall from scratch? Not to dismiss the annoyance involved. I'm just trying to understand what this bug is really about.
- xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
  No, history is not transferred to "new" devices.
  - orblivion 6y ago
    Oh that's right, it never was. But anyway, the phone still always has everything right?
cfstras 6y ago
You could probably use something like https://github.com/benbjohnson/litestream https://github.com/benbjohnson/litestream to backup your signal db.
- e40 6y ago
  Anyone successfully done this?
abandonliberty 6y ago
Why do backups of the directory not work? You're saying we couldn't roll back to a backed up version?

ancarda 6y ago

>they neither support backing up the database nor syncing/importing old messages from the phone Why Signal doesn't support this is beyond me. I can basically only use it for scenarios where I don't want any chat history, which just isn't that common.

satysin 6y ago

Yes and this has been my biggest complaint for literally years but whenever I say "Signal needs a top tier backup system asap" I get moaned at with responses like "Signal is a messaging app not email, if you want to backup a message just do that one message." or "Why would you want a whole conversation backup?!" as if I am some weirdo for wanting to have a backup. Does my fucking head in. Yes Signal is about security but that doesn't mean it can't have a functional backup feature! Honestly it needs to be priority number one imho. This bug shows just how important backups and importing conversations are. Whenever I setup Signal on a new system I hate when I see the message "For your security, conversation history isn't transferred to new linked devices." Signal doesn't (or at least shouldn't) get to decide what happens here. If I am having to re-register because of a Signal failure my security is not effected by importing the conversation history as it was there two minutes ago before they corrupted the database. At the very least they should make it an option even if it is disabled by default. Apologies for the ranty nature of this comment but I am fed up with this absolutely pathetic denial that backups are important because it is "just a messaging app". AHHH! Edit: See this reply from when I complained about the lack of backup a month ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25687851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25687851

capableweb 6y ago
Is it maybe possible that different people have different attack vectors they need to consider and backups are usually a weak-point for some of those people? I understand it's frustrating when a (open source, forkable) application doesn't work the way you want it to, but you have to be able to see it from the other side as well. Signal is signalling that chats are ephemeral and treating them as something else introduces security and privacy issues _in the way they are thinking about it_. It's very possible that's not an issue for you, but that doesn't make Signal wrong, is just make the two of you misaligned on why Signal exists. Signal is not for everyone and I think the team themselves make that pretty clear. Signal is for private and secure communications, and make no compromises that would lower either the privacy or the security, they rather compromise on other ends. These kind of comments show the entitled parts of the internet, where open source software HAS to work a particular way otherwise ITS BROKEN AND HORRIBLE. There are tradeoffs to everything. In this case, Signal made tradeoffs that you feel are wrong. You have a couple of choices, none of them include screaming that Signal should change their priorities based on your opionion: 1) continue using it anyways, start treating chats as ephemeral, 2) try to fork Signal and show us you can do it better or 3) dump Signal for a messenger that works the way you want it to. In the end, there are multiple chat apps, use the right app for the right use case. Signal is definitely not a app for one-size-fits-them-all and it's pretty clear they are not trying to either.
- ximeng 6y ago
  Realistically none of these are very good options. Starting a competitive messenger application is likely to be impossible - Signal got to where it is thanks in large part to 50mn USD from Whatsapp's founder. The fact that it's very difficult means that there aren't a huge number of competitive choices, and none that are "Signal but you can access your data". So even though complaining is not a great option, it might be the most likely way to get what is wanted, whether by someone from Signal seeing the request and agreeing, or someone else seeing there is a market for this. If you have a choice between Whatsapp (metadata not private, but has backup) versus Signal (metadata private but no backup), if you need backup (or anyone you communicate with does), you lose privacy because you're forced to use Whatsapp. Arguably because of Signal's refusal to "compromise" on privacy by allowing backups you have lost privacy anyway.

orblivion 6y ago

When you say you can't import/sync data from your phone - Couldn't you just decommission Signal Desktop from your phone, nuke the desktop installation, and reinstall from scratch? Not to dismiss the annoyance involved. I'm just trying to understand what this bug is really about.

xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
No, history is not transferred to "new" devices.
- orblivion 6y ago
  Oh that's right, it never was. But anyway, the phone still always has everything right?

cfstras 6y ago

You could probably use something like https://github.com/benbjohnson/litestream https://github.com/benbjohnson/litestream to backup your signal db.

e40 6y ago
Anyone successfully done this?

abandonliberty 6y ago

Why do backups of the directory not work? You're saying we couldn't roll back to a backed up version?