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"Signal is social software. We don’t believe that privacy is about austerity, or that a culture of sharing and communication should mean that privacy is a thing

by mikece 6y ago

"Signal is social software. We don’t believe that privacy is about austerity, or that a culture of sharing and communication should mean that privacy is a thing of the past." I don't agree. All I want from Signal is an e2ee, cross-platform replacement for SMS. I don't think of SMS as "social software" and to the degree Signal keeps acting like it wants to be a social network the more uneasy it makes me. I do appreciate that, unlike Telegram, I can use Signal without giving it access to my contacts but I wish it didn't try to leverage my contacts list at all.

swiley 6y ago
Just use email with autocrypt or jabber with OMEMO. Signal will always have its way because it isn't federated.
user-the-name 6y ago
I am pretty sure that SMS leverages your contact list, though. If you want Signal to replace it, then, why should it not do the same?
Sunspark 6y ago
Signal is not a social network, and it's the cross-platform replacement for SMS that you want it to be. Essentially RCS in that it requires a data network, but is better designed. I don't think it's an issue that it uses your contact list. Why should that be a concern? It doesn't upload them into a database like other services. Signal is a privacy app, not an anonymity app. I see people expressing their concern about seeing their boss using the app, etc. and I just cannot relate. Is their argument that they prefer to use insecure SMS with their boss instead? What's the point? Both parties _already have_ each other's phone number as a unique identifier. I only have a limited # of people I can use Signal with because I don't post my phone number everywhere, though I am old enough that I remember telephone books back when people used to give out their phone number and address and nobody thought anything of it.
- electriclove 6y ago
  Why is it a concern that an app wants to use my contact list? Really??
  - Sunspark 6y ago
    Given that it isn't uploaded into a database, it shouldn't be a concern for you, and if it is, you better stop using your smartphone because you're already sharing it with Google.
    - electriclove 6y ago
      I use Signal and don't like that it wants access to my contact list. I want a better way and if my little voice adds to a call for a better way, great. Don't tell me I shouldn't care.
      - Sunspark 6y ago
        You got the better way already. It's not being uploaded into a database.
        hunter2_ 6y ago
        If a delivery pipeline is compromised such that the APK received through automatic updates in the Play Store no longer matches the published source code, the Contacts permission we already granted allows the app to start exfiltrating our contact lists. People who build from source (or regularly compare Play Store APKs to vetted builds before installing/updating) are the only ones who really have the assurance you're describing. (Substitute other OSes as able.)
        XorNot 6y ago
        And if the same thing happened to your banking app, or a root level CA... At some point it's a problem I'd like someone to be working on, but taking on a huge amount of individual burden for a low probability scenario isn't anyway to live life. Heck, switching to Signal wasn't high on my agenda list until the Whatsapp TC change suddenly made my entire Facebook Messenger contact list worry about these things - and now I'm completely off Messenger, but it took collective engagement.
1123581321 6y ago
Signal simply is not going to be the app for you as you want austerity, and they believe austerity impedes adoption of private chat.
ffpip 6y ago
> I do appreciate that, unlike Telegram, I can use Signal without giving it access to my contacts It is 100% possible to use Telegram without giving it access to your contacts. It is even easier than Signal, because your contact can set usernames, etc. You can also chat with people without sharing your phone number. Even if you give Telegram access to your contacts,you can disable syncing of contacts to their server. You can also create your own contacts on telegram and add a select few people manually. Like a custom address book just for Telegram. I don't think that is possible on Signal.

by mikece 6y ago

swiley 6y ago

Just use email with autocrypt or jabber with OMEMO. Signal will always have its way because it isn't federated.

user-the-name 6y ago

I am pretty sure that SMS leverages your contact list, though. If you want Signal to replace it, then, why should it not do the same?

Sunspark 6y ago

Signal is not a social network, and it's the cross-platform replacement for SMS that you want it to be. Essentially RCS in that it requires a data network, but is better designed. I don't think it's an issue that it uses your contact list. Why should that be a concern? It doesn't upload them into a database like other services. Signal is a privacy app, not an anonymity app. I see people expressing their concern about seeing their boss using the app, etc. and I just cannot relate. Is their argument that they prefer to use insecure SMS with their boss instead? What's the point? Both parties _already have_ each other's phone number as a unique identifier. I only have a limited # of people I can use Signal with because I don't post my phone number everywhere, though I am old enough that I remember telephone books back when people used to give out their phone number and address and nobody thought anything of it.

electriclove 6y ago
Why is it a concern that an app wants to use my contact list? Really??
- Sunspark 6y ago
  Given that it isn't uploaded into a database, it shouldn't be a concern for you, and if it is, you better stop using your smartphone because you're already sharing it with Google.
  - electriclove 6y ago
    I use Signal and don't like that it wants access to my contact list. I want a better way and if my little voice adds to a call for a better way, great. Don't tell me I shouldn't care.
    - Sunspark 6y ago
      You got the better way already. It's not being uploaded into a database.
      - hunter2_ 6y ago
        If a delivery pipeline is compromised such that the APK received through automatic updates in the Play Store no longer matches the published source code, the Contacts permission we already granted allows the app to start exfiltrating our contact lists. People who build from source (or regularly compare Play Store APKs to vetted builds before installing/updating) are the only ones who really have the assurance you're describing. (Substitute other OSes as able.)
        XorNot 6y ago
        And if the same thing happened to your banking app, or a root level CA... At some point it's a problem I'd like someone to be working on, but taking on a huge amount of individual burden for a low probability scenario isn't anyway to live life. Heck, switching to Signal wasn't high on my agenda list until the Whatsapp TC change suddenly made my entire Facebook Messenger contact list worry about these things - and now I'm completely off Messenger, but it took collective engagement.

1123581321 6y ago

Signal simply is not going to be the app for you as you want austerity, and they believe austerity impedes adoption of private chat.

ffpip 6y ago

> I do appreciate that, unlike Telegram, I can use Signal without giving it access to my contacts It is 100% possible to use Telegram without giving it access to your contacts. It is even easier than Signal, because your contact can set usernames, etc. You can also chat with people without sharing your phone number. Even if you give Telegram access to your contacts,you can disable syncing of contacts to their server. You can also create your own contacts on telegram and add a select few people manually. Like a custom address book just for Telegram. I don't think that is possible on Signal.