5 ms·

I disagree completely. This business model should never have been allowed to exist, in the same way and for the same reason that "almost fully self-driving cars

I disagree completely. This business model should never have been allowed to exist, in the same way and for the same reason that "almost fully self-driving cars" should not be allowed on the roads: humans are just not capable of quickly and correctly responding in situations where 99.99% of the time no input is required and once in a blue moon you have to act immediately to avoid disaster. Good riddance.

Rebelgecko 6y ago
Griddy seems like it would be a win-win for people with solar panels and decent battery storage
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  Or people who knowingly, and flexibly, use a large amount of power.
- jasonjayr 6y ago
  Do they do net-metering down in TX ?
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    Better. Retail price in Texas depends on time-of-use, so you're paid more per kWh for the electricity you net-generate during the day than the electricity you net-use during the night.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      Of course, once enough people do it, peak price time moves out of solar-generating-but-home-use-low time (see, e.g., California.)
bpodgursky 6y ago
The only way other electric companies would be able to eat the difference between retail and wholesale rates would be to overcharge for years, hoard cash, and then pay out that buffer during this crisis. Presumably, this is what they did. Doesn't actually seem better for consumers?
- freeone3000 6y ago
  Except during events like this, that people are not and cannot be prepared for. Griddy going out of business is nothing -- if someone else wants to take up the business model, they can tomorrow. Individual people being charged thousands for debts difficult to discharge is the real harm.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    That's an interesting point actually. For one, I suspect that ERCOT wouldn't allow a new company with this model access to the grid immediately, at least until this blows over a bit. But regarding "thousands in debts"; I'm curious how that will be handled. It seems that these are debts to Griddy, but Griddy no longer exists, apparently for non-payment, which implies that ERCOT does not expect to be paid. Do these customers now owe this debt to ERCOT directly?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Griddy no longer exists Griddy is shutting down. They exist for the moment, the debt they are owed is an asset, and even if they are dissolved their assets will be sold off to pay their creditors, so someone will be owed the money.
      - nrmitchi 6y ago
        The customer debt from this can be sold off, but you might be lucky to get a penny-on-the-dollar for it.
        6y ago
myself248 6y ago
I would love the opportunity to sign up for this, if and only if they could send me some test messages so I could make sure my load-shedding scripts work. The opportunity to engage more directly with the market would be cool and useful for folks with the technical chops to participate appropriately. And if everyone's smart appliances and bitcoin miners could actually cut themselves off with price spikes, _the grid would be healthier for it_. I think of it like self-insurance. If you have the financial resources to weather the foreseeable eventualities, you can forego many traditional types of insurance. However, you have to prove that you have the money in the bank. In this case, there was nobody checking that these wholesale customers had the technical chops to meaningfully participate in the wholesale market. THAT is the problem. The market should exist, but just like you can't register a car without either normal insurance or proving your self-insurability, you shouldn't get electrical service without either paying normal consumer rates or proving your ability to play the wholesale game.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
austhrow743 6y ago
Almost fully self driving cars are physically dangerous to others. Whether or not you think people should be allowed to bankrupt themselves speculating on wholesale energy prices; it’s an entirely different situation.
- salawat 6y ago
  Not really. You're just gambling/risk taking in a different way. It's like a waterbed. Push down the risk in one place, pops up in another.
  - fastball 6y ago
    How am I impacted if some random person can't pay their energy bills because they used a lot of power when the prices were high? Meanwhile getting run over by a semi-autonomous vehicle is a fairly direct consequence of such things.

Rebelgecko 6y ago

Griddy seems like it would be a win-win for people with solar panels and decent battery storage

nrmitchi 6y ago
Or people who knowingly, and flexibly, use a large amount of power.
jasonjayr 6y ago
Do they do net-metering down in TX ?
- freeone3000 6y ago
  Better. Retail price in Texas depends on time-of-use, so you're paid more per kWh for the electricity you net-generate during the day than the electricity you net-use during the night.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    Of course, once enough people do it, peak price time moves out of solar-generating-but-home-use-low time (see, e.g., California.)

bpodgursky 6y ago

The only way other electric companies would be able to eat the difference between retail and wholesale rates would be to overcharge for years, hoard cash, and then pay out that buffer during this crisis. Presumably, this is what they did. Doesn't actually seem better for consumers?

freeone3000 6y ago
Except during events like this, that people are not and cannot be prepared for. Griddy going out of business is nothing -- if someone else wants to take up the business model, they can tomorrow. Individual people being charged thousands for debts difficult to discharge is the real harm.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  That's an interesting point actually. For one, I suspect that ERCOT wouldn't allow a new company with this model access to the grid immediately, at least until this blows over a bit. But regarding "thousands in debts"; I'm curious how that will be handled. It seems that these are debts to Griddy, but Griddy no longer exists, apparently for non-payment, which implies that ERCOT does not expect to be paid. Do these customers now owe this debt to ERCOT directly?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Griddy no longer exists Griddy is shutting down. They exist for the moment, the debt they are owed is an asset, and even if they are dissolved their assets will be sold off to pay their creditors, so someone will be owed the money.
    - nrmitchi 6y ago
      The customer debt from this can be sold off, but you might be lucky to get a penny-on-the-dollar for it.
      - 6y ago

myself248 6y ago

I would love the opportunity to sign up for this, if and only if they could send me some test messages so I could make sure my load-shedding scripts work. The opportunity to engage more directly with the market would be cool and useful for folks with the technical chops to participate appropriately. And if everyone's smart appliances and bitcoin miners could actually cut themselves off with price spikes, _the grid would be healthier for it_. I think of it like self-insurance. If you have the financial resources to weather the foreseeable eventualities, you can forego many traditional types of insurance. However, you have to prove that you have the money in the bank. In this case, there was nobody checking that these wholesale customers had the technical chops to meaningfully participate in the wholesale market. THAT is the problem. The market should exist, but just like you can't register a car without either normal insurance or proving your self-insurability, you shouldn't get electrical service without either paying normal consumer rates or proving your ability to play the wholesale game.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

austhrow743 6y ago

Almost fully self driving cars are physically dangerous to others. Whether or not you think people should be allowed to bankrupt themselves speculating on wholesale energy prices; it’s an entirely different situation.

salawat 6y ago
Not really. You're just gambling/risk taking in a different way. It's like a waterbed. Push down the risk in one place, pops up in another.
- fastball 6y ago
  How am I impacted if some random person can't pay their energy bills because they used a lot of power when the prices were high? Meanwhile getting run over by a semi-autonomous vehicle is a fairly direct consequence of such things.