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Free Land – Living Off Grid With No Money
- blakesterz 6y agoThe list includes a decent size city, Buffalo, New York, as well as some small towns. Buffalo has an Urban Homestead Program. https://www.buffalony.gov/306/Urban-Homestead-Program https://www.buffalony.gov/306/Urban-Homestead-Program
- leesalminen 6y agoI lived in Buffalo for years and cannot in good conscience recommend that anyone move there. Crime is rampant. Police are the most racist I’ve ever experienced anywhere in the world (and I very, very rarely use that word). Oh, and yeah, it’s cold as shit in the winter.
- airhead969 6y agoYeah, forget that. Minnesota or Maine would be better socially.
- hourislate 6y agoYou don't have to go that far, once outside of Buffalo things get really nice. Niagara Falls is a little sketchy but east of that it gets nice real quick.
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- koolba 6y agoWorst of all, if you make a wrong turn you’ll end up in Canada too!
- dehrmann 6y agoApparently it's closer to Toronto and Ottawa than NYC.
- dashundchen 6y agoGotta defend my city. While I don't doubt the police are racist, crime isn't actually that bad compared to other US cities. I live right outside of downtown and feel safe riding or walking almost anywhere in the city. Winter is something to embrace like other cold weather cities - easier when you have snow then rain and mud like some warmer places. And in my opinion it makes the spring and summer all the more glorious. Buffalo has had faced some hard times but the bleeding has stopped and past decade has seen the biggest improvements in years. It's legacy has left housing stock, infrastructure, architecture and culture that far outpaces other similar sized cities, at a similarly low cost.
- WillPostForFood 6y agoBuffalo is still suffering from the reputation it got in the 90s when it was a high crime city.
- walrus01 6y agoWhenever I see a random example of an American describing their local police as really racist, from an outside-of-the-usa perspective I mentally translate this as "astonishingly, incredibly racist in ways that would make your jaw drop".
- JKCalhoun 6y agoI thought as you did, but a friend in the U.K. tells me there are very racist racists there as well. I was saddened when he told me this — but having watched the U.K. a little closer over the past decade it comes as less of a surprise to me now.
- oh_sigh 6y agoyes, and a lot of the racism is re-coded to classist language - because that is a socially accepted style of discrimination in the UK.
- refurb 6y agoThat makes sense though? Do we really believe that some countries have a monopoly on racism? Seems more a broadly human quality.
- snovv_crash 6y agoIt also means there's an escape if you're willing to dress and speak differently. I'm much more tolerant of classism for this reason.
- Semaphor 6y agoI think the difference comes from the (seemingly, to someone who has never been to the USA) generally higher level of violence. Here in Germany, racism is usually (not always, there are several worse examples) just racial profiling.
- opportune 6y agoAs an American who has travelled through Europe with a black friend I think many non-Americans are simply unaware of racism in their own counties.
- refurb 6y agoAt least for one of your factors anything north of the 40th parallel would be excluded (With a few coastal regions as exceptions). As a Canadian I’m offended.
- bostonsre 6y agoA blog about living off the grid seems ironic/oxymoronic (is that a word?).
- pchristensen 6y agoLiving off the grid doesn't mean never interfacing with it. If you have a home with a well and solar panels and satellite internet (or you go to town to use wifi at the library), you can still write your blog.
- HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago/u/lutusp can attest to that :-)
- bostonsre 6y agoYea, I guess that works. Not sure of what the canonical definition of living off the grid is, but I always pictured it as complete isolation and separation from all grids, not just power. But seems like that might not be right.
- Ancapistani 6y agoI’d argue it means different to different people. I’m moderately “off-grid” because I have a septic tank even though I have a city sewer connection at my curbside. The sewer was run after my home was built, and it doesn’t make sense for me to dig up my front yard (to run the new line), my back yard (to remove the septic tank and drain field), and my crawlspace (to reverse the direction of the plumbing) just so I can pay money every month to the city for a service that I’m currently providing for myself without a recurring fee. I’m in a neighborhood though so I’m connected to city water, electric, gas, and trash. My previous home in this area has electrical service only. We had a septic tank for sewer and took care of everything else ourselves. There were three homes in a “bunch” in the middle of nowhere, with a small plot of land that was technically owned by one of my neighbors but served as a community resource. That plot had a small pump house for the shared well, with electrical service from the neighbor’s place. On that same lot I kept a semi-enclosed utility trailer where we would all put our trash. Twice a month or so I would hook on to the trailer and haul it to the dump (a half hour drive) on my way to work and put the trailer back when I got home. Every month or so we’d all sit down for coffee and bring our receipts. We’d figure up how much water, trash, and internet had cost us that month, split it proportionately, account for any expenses, and make everyone whole. Because I took care of the trash and was both young handy enough to be the one who did repairs on the well when necessary, it wasn’t uncommon for me to walk away with a few dollars in my pocket. It was like our own informal HOA out in the sticks :)
- nine_zeros 6y agoLooking at so many places from Kansas reminded me of this video by a Geography nerd who went down census numbers from every state to try to explain patterns. https://youtu.be/4ZM3UFIt0Xs https://youtu.be/4ZM3UFIt0Xs Truly remarkable how it takes only a decade to see entire counties and states to change completely.
- narrator 6y agoI once went to an almost deserted town in Kansas because my mom was tracking down some old family history in obscure graveyards. They had one restaurant in the half deserted town. The silverware was mismatched, the food was literally microwaved tater tots. It was quite the experience. I rarely remember restaurants I eat at, but that one left an impression.
- quesera 6y ago> The silverware was mismatched, the food was literally microwaved tater tots. It was quite the experience. This made me laugh. This is an extremely common situation, from dead zone rural all the way up to ordinary suburban and midsize city. And it's not hard to find in hopping metropolis San Francisco either. Unrelated, but there used to be an ironic-downmarket diner in South of Market. It didn't last long, but (for a while) people packed the place to eat trays of frozen macaroni and cheese. You could get a slightly better version of the same dish (but still distinctly microwaved) in a dozen places elsewhere around town, but people went to this place for the hipper decor and music, and to know that they were eating (and enjoying) the same food ironically, expensively, a few blocks from work, and just down the street from a wine bar where they have such creative ideas of how to infuse a vodka tonic!
- TrevorJ 6y agoTook a look at the New Richland Montana one - they are charging you 25,000 for the cost of putting in roads and such. So A: not off grid. and B: not free. Not sure how well researched the article is.
- dmeeker 6y agoThere's also the issue that it's New Richland, Minnesota, not Montana.
- rrmm 6y agoTomayto, Tomahto...
- johnohara 6y agoArticle says New Richland, Montana. Link takes you to New Richland, Minnesota.
- torgian 6y agoI just read an article about this via Trulia. I can’t help the feeling that these “small towns” sound like a cult.
- ttyprintk 6y agoShameless plug for https://gigahood.com https://gigahood.com —- I would run any nearby address through it to see what wired Internet options are offered in those areas.
- bachmeier 6y agoA number of towns in Kansas on the list. I've lived here for many years and I've only heard of one of them, and that's because they're giving away free lots or houses or something. I'd be really careful about building the type of house described in the article in Kansas. Obviously places in Tornado Alley have that to worry about. Not every place is like that - we've had one tornado since 1966 - but there's nowhere in Kansas you can escape the heavy thunderstorms.
- JKCalhoun 6y agoSpent half my life in Kansas, tornadoes never worried me. They're so ... focused. (Here I am in California and it's the earthquakes that freak me out, so widespread.) You're correct about the thunderstorms though. Something I miss all the time.
- mrzimmerman 6y agoI love reading these articles just for the fantasy material. Camping is one of my favorite hobbies but it’s generally car camping and not without some fairly straightforward luxuries (I’m probably not one to hunt and forage). Still, it seems like it could be worth it to have some land that will be less affected by climate change in the future, especially if you have children you can leave it to.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- johnohara 6y agoI've ridden the RAGBRAI (Register's Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa) three times. Each year, a different route brings you and 15,000 of your closest friends through small towns like Marne and Manilla. The chosen communities always enthusiastically rise to the occasion by providing food, water, beverages, entertainment, fun diversions, historical themes, hospitality, well wishes and much more. Riding out of town after having a stack of pancakes at the firehouse or a piece of pie from the local Rotary Club, you have plenty of time to think about what it takes and how remarkable it is for some of those towns to accommodate everyone. The RAGBRAI is a great way to experience the State of Iowa.
- rayiner 6y agoCool! I thought Sibley, where my wife grew up, was small. Marne has under 150 people!
- bradfitz 6y agoI was in Iowa visiting my grandparents when RAGBRAI came through their town one year: Oyens, Iowa. Population 94. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Oyens,+IA/@42.8198478,-96.0599026,16.58z https://www.google.com/maps/place/Oyens,+IA/@42.8198478,-96.... Marne looks huge compared to Oyens... Marne has a restaurant and two stores! Oyens has a grain elevator and a closed church.
- johnohara 6y agoNorthern Iowa is beautiful. The tops of some of those inclines yield spectacular vistas. You completely lose perspective of where you are. It is cool. My nephew's wife grew up in Spirit Lake.
- Animats 6y agoAlaska discourages people coming to Alaska without preparation.[1] "You should have a round trip ticket and cash or credit card resources ($2,000 for temporary and $3,000 for permanent work) to live on while looking for work. Many who arrived short of cash encountered serious hardship and shattered dreams. Public assistance programs cannot be counted on by persons relocating to Alaska without adequate funds. Homesteading is not available now. The climate and unpredictable summer weather generally discourage camper or tent living for extended periods." [1] https://www.labor.alaska.gov/esd_alaska_jobs/ak_over.htm https://www.labor.alaska.gov/esd_alaska_jobs/ak_over.htm
- colora-doh 6y agoSomeone should have told that to Chris McCandless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_McCandless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_McCandless
- hellbannedguy 6y agoI think Chris knew these things deep down inside, but his affluent upbringing clouded reality. The wealthy think there’s a safety net, even in the middle of nowhere. They grow up with the Luxury of taking chances because that emphatic family, usually dad, bails them out. They can afford to take chances, and buck the system? I have read Krakauer’s book a few time, and watched the movie a lot. And thought about Chris way too much. I think Chris’s biggest mistake was not having a partner. I know a few homeless individuals. The ones that didn’t lose their mind in a few months, or die; had a reliable partner. Most of the time the partner was same sex. It was just someone to help, and bounce ideas off. I’m interested in McCandless because I identified with him. I didn’t have the affluent background, but was unhappy after college. The last thing I wanted was to look at a screen, and hang around people whom were kinda dead inside. I think Chris would be alive today if he partnered up. I’m a complete loner, but the times I had true friends, I was so much more successful.
- tomcam 6y ago> I think Chris knew these things deep down inside, but his affluent upbringing clouded reality. He did not know these things. He died. QED.
- teslaberry 6y agothere's no such thing as 'free' in america anymore. 'free' is a trap, because of regulations, zoning boards, and all sorts of newfangled bullshit you have to deal with if you're going to just LIVE somewhere on a near subsidence level of income. you wanna know what's to blame? the idea that america is now one giant suburb and with infinitely cheap gas you can travel 90+ miles a day round trip just to make a living. burning 12+ dollars of gasoline a day just to make your bread. the resulting development problems turned the u.s. into a massive set of parking lots and highways and over-distant suburbs and excessively distant rural areas over the last 90 years. and it's nearly impossible to undo this in any elegant manner. spreading out was elegant and fun. 'coming closer' is going to be very unpleasant.
- rsj_hn 6y agoThe title of the link is a bit misleading. It might be better to say: "Ways to get land in North America without paying" as it lists some techniques you can use: committing to building a house, taking care of a farm, or via squatters rights to obtain land in Canada and the US without needing to buy it. As there are substantial non-monetary obligations attached (for example, the need to build a house), I wouldn't call this "giving away land". And as most of these programs have been in place for a long time - in some cases dating back to common law - I wouldn't frame it as news. Rather, it's another set of life hacking tips.
- 10x-dev 6y agoAdverse possession is probably not realistic for most people. iirc it kicks in after 20 years after you build something on that land or surround it with a fence, plus it would take years and hiring an attorney to get it through the court system. So yes, it's technically free land, but after 25 years. I'm sure some states have slightly different rules about adverse possession though.
- throwaway8581 6y agoIt’s single digits in some states, but all it takes to end up with nothing is for the owner to notice you and file eviction one day before the end of the period. Actively hiding from the owner also invalidates an adverse possession claim. The main point of adverse possession isn’t squatters. It’s to give you or your descendants good title after a certain amount of time. There’s a bunch of reasons you can end up with imperfect title even if you think you validly bought or were gifted your property. Adverse possession clears up your title once enough time passes as long as you actually use the land and no one comes along and tries to assert their right.
- stevekemp 6y agoThat reminds me of this story, from the UK. A guy built a castle, and hid it for four years behind straw bales - on the basis that if nobody complained for four years he'd be able to keep it. It didn't work out that way, and he had to demolish it: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-35928269 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-35928269
- throwaway316943 6y agoThere should be exceptions for such well executed visions.
- raverbashing 6y agoYeah but that's not adverse possession, it's a planning permission issue. - but yeah they should have them let him keep it ;) -
- newsbinator 6y agoI love the idea of an off-grid house but it always comes with too much DIY. I wish there were sellers with fixed affordable off-grid packages. You get House A on Plot A for $50,000 You own the house and the plot. It is fully off-grid (except WiFi) and we made smart decisions and installed reliable systems. You pay your money and you maintain the house. Unfortunately it’s never like that. It’s all DIY: Come camp with us for 4 weeks without a hot shower while we teach you how to mix AirCrete and sell you a pump. Get 4 friends and spend 4 months slathering cob incorrectly together. Never cut down a tree before? Buy a chainsaw and start stacking 1-ton logs- you’ll be perfectly safe: nobody has blogged yet about having crushed themselves. I realize this is contrary to the spirit. I just want a convention-over-configuration small off-grid house that I can see in models, read specs for, and purchase outright, including the land it’s sitting on.
- forgotmypw17 6y agoI think two age-old adages apply here: There's no such thing as free lunch, and not just when it comes to monetary payment, but also to due diligence. and If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Animats 6y agoThey exist. Search for "complete prefab off grid house". Here's an elaborate one. [1] [1] https://spechtarchitects.com/work/zerohouse/ https://spechtarchitects.com/work/zerohouse/
- TeMPOraL 6y agoWoah. That looks like a mashup of container-based structures you'd walk through in Mass Effect games, with Kerbal Space Program - the way that oversized solar panel is just glued to the top of the structure. That is to say, I love the design. But I suspect my wife wouldn't.
- 6y ago
- walrus01 6y agoThere's plenty of places in rural WA state where you can buy 20 acres for $20,000. In some really beautiful remote places. With starlink and much lower costs of photovoltaics, and better batteries in the past 3-4 years, a high tech life off grid isn't technically hard. But I would budget at minimum an additional $50k for septic system, water well drilling and setup, and PV+wind+battery setup. Before you even start with the cost of laying a foundation for a house.
- pram 6y agoI did SERE school near Spokane during the early spring and it was already pretty miserable out in the woods. I literally can't imagine camping/living off-grid there during the winter lol. I think it would be hard mode personally, compared to a winter in like Arizona or something ;P
- cosmic_shame 6y agoMiserable how?
- djrogers 6y agoFrom experience with the area, probably very wet, very little sun, and miserably chilly (not deathly cold, just the kind of ‘ughh this sucks’ wet-cold).
- pram 6y agoPretty much what the other reply said: very damp and cold. Having lived in Spokane for a few years too the summers are also fairly brutal. That region has pretty extreme temperatures both ways.
- ghaff 6y agoCamping and living are pretty different. Camping for a few days just requires the right gear and knowledge of using it. Living in a cabin, you'll probably want to have a wood stove that you keep fed and some warm blankets. Obviously (most parts of) Arizona in the winter are easier though water is a bigger problem there.
- jeremy_wiebe 6y agoI grew up near two villages listed in the article (Pipestone and Scarth, Manitoba). Definitely low population but growing up there I never felt I was missing out. Spent lots of time outside adventuring around. I still sometimes miss how dark and quiet notes out there were.
- acd 6y agoI think it will be interesting the day that a local community bans central banks/fractional reserve banking and starts to sell houses in Bitcoin/Gold. People will be able to afford houses in cash without going into life time debt. People will be able to remote work due to internet technology, local work hubs will appear where you can have social interactions.
- Fragoel2 6y agoI think what you're describing is an utopia and likely will never come
- acd 6y agoThis is probably very true, an utopia.
- rebuilder 6y ago>People will be able to afford houses in cash without going into life time debt. Well, sure, if the only people buying houses are the ones who can afford them without getting loans, you could technically describe it that way. But perhaps you could explain a bit further how hard currency / ban on fractional reserve would make housing affordable?
- acd 6y agoAgree such a system would make it harder for people who cannot afford to save for a house to buy it. I speculate that house prices has increased mainly due to credit expansion. If you limit credit expansion by using hard currency house prices would be more stable over time like hard assets.
- engineer_22 6y ago-> I speculate that house prices has increased mainly due to credit expansion. This is probably true, but not everywhere. There are still many places where the cost to build a replacement home (cost of labor and materials) is higher than the price of an existing house+land. Some societies try to solve this problem by forcing people to move.
- JamesAdir 6y agoEven without living off the grid. What's it's like living in this places in the US? I'm looking at New Richmond Minnesota that's mentioned on the blog and there are only 1,200 people living there. I wonder if you can live there as a single in your 30's as someone who grow up in a small country where all cities and major places are just very close by.
- gnopgnip 6y agoYou are a 30-45 min drive away from a city with a hospital, movie theater, full size grocery store with cheaper prices etc. Most people will drive to a bigger city 1-4+ times a month
- swader999 6y agoThis. Forget about living rural if you don't have a reliable vehicle. People underestimate the driving involved, especially if you have kids.
- Ancapistani 6y agoEven the poorest people around me have their own transportation. It’s often old, constantly breaking, and inefficient but it’s an absolute requirement in even a semi-rural area.
- Ancapistani 6y agoSure you can, it’s just a cultural adjustment. I live in northern Arkansas, in a town of <15k people. It’s the county seat and the largest town nearby, but I grew up in an even smaller town nearby (current population 271). I’m happy to discuss this sort of thing in further detail if anyone is interested. Some thoughts: I think it’s going to be foremost on the minds of a lot of HNers, but race/ethnicity isn’t as big a consideration as it might appear from the outside. If you look like the people here it’s going to be a bit easier to assimilate, but I would strongly argue that this is more of a visible marker of someone being an “outsider” than something based on race. In fact, if you’re white, your accent, mannerisms, and perspective on the world will be a bigger deal. For example - pretty much no one here is going to care if you’re a man who prefers the company of men, but if you walk into town with bright green hair, covered in rainbows, and have a giant Biden sticker on the back of your car you’re not going to be well received. What’s more, it seems to me - again, from the outside - that people who appear obviously “foreign” have a slightly easier time fitting in. Yes, there’s the initial “you’re not from around here, are ya?”, but your differences also make you memorable. Treat others with kindness and kindness will be returned, and your external differences will mean that people remember you. Note that my perspective on this is shaped by my knowing and having spoken with people who have moved in to the area: mostly of Hispanic ethnicity, which is increasingly common, but also a family from Iraq that moved here as part of a compensatory relocation program after the father had served several years as an interpreter for the US Army in Iraq. The biggest consideration in my mind is that you have to make an effort to understand and assimilate to the local culture. People here wave if we recognize each other, including people you only sorta/kinda know. I live in a small subdivision and know the vehicles that belong here; if I see them coming in and out of the neighborhood I wave. If I see them driving around town, I wave. None of this means I know their names. If you see someone who needs help and you’re able to offer it, do so. If the guy across the street from me is working on his house and I see him sawing a board with a hand saw in his driveway, I go out and offer to let him use my power tools. I don’t stand around and wait for him to return them, either, I trust that he’ll put them in the (unlocked) storage area on the side of my home or in the front seat of my (also unlocked) Jeep when he’s done. If I’m trimming trees in my yard with a hatchet, someone is almost certainly going to stop and offer to let me use their chainsaw. If you’re borrowing a tool and it breaks, you fix or replace it. If you can’t afford to do so, you politely refuse the offer. If you have adjoining neighbors, you stop and chat with them when you see them outside. Sometimes that’s “Hey! How are ya? Good, good - I have to run, I’ll talk to you later.” Sometimes that’s a half hour of listening to their complaining about politics. Whatever. You don’t have to agree, you just have to listen. Social accommodations like this are the lubrication required for our society to operate. Do all you can not to have disagreements with your neighbors - that’s never a good time, but it’s particularly bad when you’re far from others. It’s better to implicitly agree to mostly ignore each other than to be at odds. If you go that route, you still treat them like you’re good friends in the situations where you do have to interact. In short, your goal should be “I’m one of ‘us’ now”. Thinking in terms of “us” and “these people” is counterproductive. Social stuff aside, living outside a city is different from a practical perspective as well. I’ve heard it said that “One hundred years in the US in a long time; one hundred miles in Europe is a long distance.” The nearest town to me that I would consider a small city is Springfield, MO. It’s 75 mi / 125 km away. That seems like a long way, but it’s about an hour and fifteen minutes’ drive - basically like driving to the other side of a large city. My town has a half dozen grocery stores, but they’re very class specific: poor people and the elderly tend to go to the old Harp’s downtown and Cash Saver; middle class people go to one of the new Harps’ outside of town; upper class people and the elderly go to Hudson’s. Everyone goes to Walmart. We have everything in town that you need day-to-day, and we drive to neighboring cities when we want to “go shopping”. For clothes I usually end up in Branson, MO and for electronics and big-ticket items I’ll either buy online or go to Springfield, MO. If you live in an outlying community (like New Richmond), you quickly learn to make your trips “into town” count for a bit more. You’ll find you’re not going to the grocery store nearly as often, buying more when you’re there, and will sometimes swing by and pick up a couple of stopgap things that sit on your mental list when you happen to be nearby for other reasons. In a smaller town like that there is usually a gas station or something that also serves as a “general store” and has essentials. They’re more expensive there, but cheaper and faster than driving into town. If you’re even further out, you learn to buy more than you need of everything and do without some things that you used to think were essential. The idea of going through a drive through for a cup of Starbucks every morning is pretty laughable to me, even living in a town where there are a couple of coffee shops. When I lived in a truly rural area, it was something that I considered a rare luxury for when I was traveling. ... this has grown to be a much larger comment than I was expecting. I’ll stop here and go do something productive. If I can offer any insights or answer questions, let me know. I’ll check back :)
- simonebrunozzi 6y agoWhat a great article. I can see the appeal of living in nature, off-grid, but I see a few problems that are really hard to solve for such type of living: 1) healthcare access - you might be hours away from medical assistance. It's all nice and good until you need it. 2) social activity - it's nice to be by yourself, or with a few people, for a few months; but would you live like that for decades? Wouldn't you miss social interactions? 3) work - not everybody can be a software developer. What kind of work you could do if you are so far away from any community? 4) sense of community, sense of belonging - this is the hardest I think. Humans are social animals, there's no way around it. Some of us are perfectly fine living in a semi-isolated state; but at least for me, that would become a problem eventually. One thing that Covid has taught me is how important my social interactions are. Edit: also on HN today you find "What Makes a Community? (2020)". Interesting read. [0] [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26274450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26274450
- kilroy123 6y agoI completely agree. I'm a big city person myself. I like having access to culture, art, music festivals, restaurants, social events, economic opportunities, etc. However, it can wear on you a lot. I would absolutely love to own an off-the-grid second home. That's very appealing to me. But to live like a hermit out in the middle of nowhere full-time seems crazy to me in the long-term.
- swader999 6y agoA lot of people in cities barely know their neighbors. Living rural you'll likely be part of a community where everyone knows everyone. I'm seven years in and going to town the other day took an extra hour just because I was chatting with people I ran into. In a city you are more anonymous.
- Werewolf255 6y agoLiving rural you're also more prone to being shut out without any recourse if you don't meet the community's unspoken standards.
- shimonabi 6y agoThe amount of DIY knowledge you need to know to live off grid is more than making a PhD in some STEM field. Living near civilization is far easier, even with a soul-crushing job.
- swader999 6y agoThe time it takes to aquire this knowledge is underestimated too. Sure it's all in books and on YouTube but it's knowing which advice to use in a particular circumstance and the devil is in the details. Much like software development in these respects.
- dmje 6y agoInteresting threads here got me thinking about the fact that “off grid” is clearly not synonymous with “not being on the internet”. There’s like “the grid” and then “The Grid”. I wonder how many people would argue that being truly off grid means exactly that - no mains water, electricity, but also no internet. I don’t know enough about these sorts of communities to hazard a guess.
- throwaway316943 6y agoPlot twist, many of the people dreaming of an off grid lifestyle really just need to get away from the stress caused by being on line 24/7 and wouldn’t find any reprieve by moving to the woods while continuing to be jacked in.
- heliodor 6y ago"We Are As Gods" is a book about the back-to-the-land movement in the 70s. Easy and interesting reading. It will make you appreciate your urban life really quickly!
- dmje 6y agoOh, ta, bookmarked!
- TheGrassyKnoll 6y agoAs a kid in school we read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Side_of_the_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Side_of_the_Mountain Gives you a little taste of surviving outdoors.
- throwaway316943 6y agoI’m a middle roader. We need both simplicity and complexity. I wouldn’t want to completely cut my internet connection but it’s more conducive to my productivity to confine it to a single room or device. I appreciate my current life in a rural setting more than I ever did living in large cities.
- 6y ago
- nanna 6y agoI despair. In the UK land is so parcelled up, monopolised, and held for posterity that you need serious wealth to buy anything even low grade. And now that we've left the EU it's not like it's even possible to move elsewhere. I despair.
- phrotoma 6y agoIt's there in the saltwater electrolysis diagram on the right hand side, but probably worth calling out in big scary letters. Separating saltwater this way produces chlorine gas as a byproduct.
- ttyprintk 6y agoAnd hydrogen. Though, a lifetime supply of calcium hypochlorite doesn’t take up much room, but is also flammable.
- jsilence 6y agoI like the general idea very much. unfortunately in Germany where I like it is almost impossible to achieve. outside of city limits it is forbidden to build a house, even if the property is yours and inside city limits and a permit and that one you can not get with off grid concepts. connection to the road, electricity, water and waste water is mandatory. even people who produce zero waste MUST pay for waste collection. saw an article once where a family planted a tree in the waste bin. Still had to pay for having it not collected.
- porknubbins 6y agoThat sounds quite harsh. It generally fits with the idea that “Europe is a museum, the US is a factory”. You aren’t allowed to mess up the museum, you’re just supposed to appreciate it. However I can’t imagine that Germany doesn’t allow cabins, lake houses, weekend homes etc anywhere?
- tpmx 6y agoGermany has been very densely populated for a very long time. At the start of WW2 (82 years ago) Germany had a population of ~70M. Now it's 83M. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union#/media/File:Population_density_by_NUTS_3_region_(2017).svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_U... .. illustrates that Europe isn't this densely populated everywhere.
- jsilence 6y agoFor cabins, the property has to be zoned as a recreational space. On agricultural land the structure you build has to be with an agricultural purpose and you can only apply for such a building permit when you are a registered farmer. Pretty much everything is regulated in Germany which sucks at times, but also this is the reason why things work quite well even though we are densely populated.
- hef19898 6y agoConstruction permission is different from state to state. At least in Bavaria, water and waste water can be independent from the grid. Electricity is funny, because off grid is allowed, you still seem to have to pay taxes and grid fees (I could be wrong here, never dug to deep here). Having a road, yeah, you want to get to your house, don't you? Cabins and such need a permit, or have to grandfathered. There is even a way to treat them as a "non-permanent" building.
- spiritplumber 6y ago"Last of the Deliverers" - Poul Anderson, 1958 Find it and read it
- hyko 6y agoEverything is free if you don’t count the price you have to pay. In this case, the price is working like a maniac 24/7 and living in a tiny shack without electricity.
- skeeter2020 6y agoEveryone with dreams of the glory of off-grid living should first play Oregon Trail.
- porknubbins 6y agoI’m into nature, diy construction, being frugal and early retirement etc so I should be the target audience for this, but it doesn’t exactly sound great. I’ll take living in a house in a regular low COL area an direct my energy to something other than fighting off cold and scratching out a frontier life.
- iancmceachern 6y agoWe bought an RV, that way when we get the itch we go scratch it, then when done we come back home and order takeout.
- jefftk 6y agoThis article gives a decent description of the 'how', but I'm more curious about the 'why'. Yes, it is possible to avoid paying money for land, food, housing, water, sewer, etc. Considered on a basis of how many hours you have to work for a given standard of living, however, it's not very attractive.
- carapace 6y agoFantastic resource, covers all the bases. I've tried this a couple of times: move to the woods with some like-minded people and start a little Permaculture village. All the physical stuff really works: composting, rocket stoves, etc. In my experience the problems are always people. ("Hell is other people." ~Voltaire or somebody.) Drug and alcohol abuse or just plain crazy can bust up a venture. I did meet a group of people who were living very very well in a communal village. They did things like holding hands in a big circle and singing grace before meals. They are probably among the happiest and most fulfilled folks I've ever met. - - - - One thing I would add to the list: Aircrete dome houses. Cheap, easy, fast, beautiful, durable (fire- and earthquake-proof.) Start at https://www.domegaia.com/ https://www.domegaia.com/ for a group that teaches how and developed a backyard-scale foamer. There are lots of DIY videos and information out there too.
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