6 ms·

Every-time this comes up, I feel compelled to bring up Mazda's stance since at least 2019 to purge touch screens from their cars. https://www.motorauthority.co

by mey 6y ago

Every-time this comes up, I feel compelled to bring up Mazda's stance since at least 2019 to purge touch screens from their cars. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-purging-touchscreens-from-its-vehicles https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur... Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20200335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20200335

not_knuth 6y ago
Great thread. Looks like HN has decently chewed on this topic before. Thanks for sharing!
hyperrail 6y ago
According to Consumer Reports, Mazda's non-touch-screen infotainment controls are actually not good at all: * https://www.consumerreports.org/infotainment-systems/how-to-solve-problems-with-your-infotainment-system/ https://www.consumerreports.org/infotainment-systems/how-to-... > Despite selling some vehicles with high ratings in other categories, Audi, Honda, Infiniti, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mini, Subaru, and Toyota all joined Lexus at the bottom of our satisfaction ratings when it came to ease of use for in-car electronics. * https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/mazda/3/2021/road-test/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/mazda/3/2021/road-test/ (requires subscription): > The infotainment screen mounted in the center of the dash isn’t a touch screen; users must adjust audio and infotainment features using steering wheel controls or the rotary controller and buttons mounted between the front seats. Unfortunately, some steering wheel controls are hard to see and difficult to use because they have silver text on a silver background. The rotary knob and buttons in the center console are also challenging to use since many of the buttons are difficult to see at a glance, and the lack of an easy-to-decipher menu structure forces drivers to spend too long looking at the controls instead of the road. As can be seen from your first link, the main control method is a jog-wheel knob at your knee next to the gear shift lever, mounted facing up, so you turn it left and right to select things and push in to "click"/confirm. CR says that with this control system, and the menu hierarchies that Mazda's UI makes you go through, you end up more distracted than with the better touch-screen systems they review.
- thesuitonym 6y ago
  The idea is right, but the implementation doesn't seem great. I can't judge it fairly, because I've never used it, but based on your description, and the article, I completely believe that the way Mazda is going about this is horrible. >Mazda is looking to add more simple, tactile controls into the cars. A quick tilt of the volume knob to the right or left goes forward or back single tracks Ugh, if only there were some kind of dedicated control for some of these things that are being moved out of touchscreens. Something you can just tap on, sort of the way you do with touchscreens, but that never moves or changes, so you can tap it without looking. Boy whoever invents that will be a billionaire!
  - jjoonathan 6y ago
    Advanced tactile feedback technology!
  - otherme123 6y ago
    I have a Mazda, and the system works perfectly. You have to get used to it (maybe a week of use), and after that is like using a trackball. Do you need to look at your mouse to locate the buttons or the wheel? The Mazda knob is exactly the same: left is media, central is home, right is navigation. Obviously, if you only test drive the car for an hour, you cannot get used to it, and you have to look down. Same as you had to look at your mouse the first time you used it.
- pdimitar 6y ago
  That X is not good does not automatically mean that Y is better. Touchscreens in cars are really distracting. I had to yell to an acquaintance of mine once -- they were trying to change the music while going with 40-50km/h in a suburban area and she almost hit a dog. The reason? Cheap touchscreen that doesn't register half the touches. But it wouldn't matter for the poor creature that gets one ton of steel driven through them. Maybe the car infotainment system's controls belong to the steering wheel? Or a bunch of extra levers? Who knows, but IMO the touchscreens aren't that good as well. The jury is still out on what's the best way of approaching this.
mrtksn 6y ago
I just wanted to see how the things evolved and apparently in 2021 some new Mazda's DO HAVE touchscreen infotainment: https://youtu.be/eIfP2vcZD7M?t=582 https://youtu.be/eIfP2vcZD7M?t=582 Other Mazda's don't: https://youtu.be/z5k5Oqfyn2Y?t=510 https://youtu.be/z5k5Oqfyn2Y?t=510
- CraigJPerry 6y ago
  That's optional touch - which is ideal, best of both worlds but there is a BMW iDrive still controller between the passengers for the screen, you can see it later in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=582&v=eIfP2vcZD7M&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=582&v=eIfP2vcZD7M&feature=yo...
- thedrbrian 6y ago
  That’s because the 6 is the old/current 6 with the old nav/infotainment whereas the CX-5 is new. Once the new generation mazda6 comes out I assume it’ll get updated to the new dash/infotainment.
  - seniorgarcia 6y ago
    As someone currently shopping for a new car, the current CX-5, the current MX-5 and the Mazda 6 come with a touchscreen setup. *EDIT: Also all the VW models in the Golf and Passat Range come with a touchscreen, the low-end Fiats are the same, Mercedes is no different, even the low-end at Dacia comes with a touchscreen. If you can find a car manufacturer that does not think a touchscreen is the way to go, I'll be surprised. \EDIT2: Since I looked at everything else in my neighborhood as well... Audi does a touchscreen center console for everything. You can get the Renault Twingo without any electronics but if you take the climate control you also get a touch screen. Honda and Hyundai will include a touch screen with everything as well. The only cars I got offered without a touchscreen center console is the Mitsubishi outlander and there it is only 1 model.
    - olyjohn 6y ago
      All new cars are mandated to have back-up cameras. This means they have to put a screen in the car for every new car. It probably doesn't add much to make it a touch screen... but the irony here is that we added backup cameras for safety, and now we've got a dangerous distraction piece on the car.
rsj_hn 6y ago
I'm really impressed with Mazda, they seem to be staying on the right side of several trends where the industry is going in the other direction. They still make cars that are a bit more responsive whereas the industry is making either luxury floaters or crazy horsepower monsters. Good handling, they avoid CVT and have a very practical approach to tech. If anyone is a fan of MotoMan, he's done some cool deep dives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMke4Fl4gyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMke4Fl4gyw (Sorry if this sounds like an ad, I'm not affiliated with them but have been scouting for a car recently.)
- andrepd 6y ago
  > they avoid CVT Is that a good thing?
  - nerdponx 6y ago
    I can't speak for nowadays, but my experience with early non-hybrid CVT vehicles was negative. I test drove a Nissan Versa and the engine was sitting at around 4k RPM doing 60 MPH on the highway. It was very loud for a small hatchback, and generally unpleasant to drive.
    - sebastien_b 6y ago
      That’s what I used to have (2008) and it wasn’t like that for me. Your experience sounds like the overdrive was off. Or the transmission was dying/defective.
      - nerdponx 6y ago
        I think I tested the Versa in 2008. I specifically raised this concern with the car salesman who was sitting in the passenger seat; he insisted it was normal. Weird!
        sebastien_b 6y ago
        Yeah weird, cause mine ran in the normal RPM range at those speeds.
heywire 6y ago
I love my Mazda CX-5. The navigation wheel works wonderfully, even with Apple CarPlay. I definitely miss it when I drive my wife’s Hyundai Tucson.

by mey 6y ago

not_knuth 6y ago

Great thread. Looks like HN has decently chewed on this topic before. Thanks for sharing!

hyperrail 6y ago

According to Consumer Reports, Mazda's non-touch-screen infotainment controls are actually not good at all: * https://www.consumerreports.org/infotainment-systems/how-to-solve-problems-with-your-infotainment-system/ https://www.consumerreports.org/infotainment-systems/how-to-... > Despite selling some vehicles with high ratings in other categories, Audi, Honda, Infiniti, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mini, Subaru, and Toyota all joined Lexus at the bottom of our satisfaction ratings when it came to ease of use for in-car electronics. * https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/mazda/3/2021/road-test/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/mazda/3/2021/road-test/ (requires subscription): > The infotainment screen mounted in the center of the dash isn’t a touch screen; users must adjust audio and infotainment features using steering wheel controls or the rotary controller and buttons mounted between the front seats. Unfortunately, some steering wheel controls are hard to see and difficult to use because they have silver text on a silver background. The rotary knob and buttons in the center console are also challenging to use since many of the buttons are difficult to see at a glance, and the lack of an easy-to-decipher menu structure forces drivers to spend too long looking at the controls instead of the road. As can be seen from your first link, the main control method is a jog-wheel knob at your knee next to the gear shift lever, mounted facing up, so you turn it left and right to select things and push in to "click"/confirm. CR says that with this control system, and the menu hierarchies that Mazda's UI makes you go through, you end up more distracted than with the better touch-screen systems they review.

thesuitonym 6y ago
The idea is right, but the implementation doesn't seem great. I can't judge it fairly, because I've never used it, but based on your description, and the article, I completely believe that the way Mazda is going about this is horrible. >Mazda is looking to add more simple, tactile controls into the cars. A quick tilt of the volume knob to the right or left goes forward or back single tracks Ugh, if only there were some kind of dedicated control for some of these things that are being moved out of touchscreens. Something you can just tap on, sort of the way you do with touchscreens, but that never moves or changes, so you can tap it without looking. Boy whoever invents that will be a billionaire!
- jjoonathan 6y ago
  Advanced tactile feedback technology!
- otherme123 6y ago
  I have a Mazda, and the system works perfectly. You have to get used to it (maybe a week of use), and after that is like using a trackball. Do you need to look at your mouse to locate the buttons or the wheel? The Mazda knob is exactly the same: left is media, central is home, right is navigation. Obviously, if you only test drive the car for an hour, you cannot get used to it, and you have to look down. Same as you had to look at your mouse the first time you used it.
pdimitar 6y ago
That X is not good does not automatically mean that Y is better. Touchscreens in cars are really distracting. I had to yell to an acquaintance of mine once -- they were trying to change the music while going with 40-50km/h in a suburban area and she almost hit a dog. The reason? Cheap touchscreen that doesn't register half the touches. But it wouldn't matter for the poor creature that gets one ton of steel driven through them. Maybe the car infotainment system's controls belong to the steering wheel? Or a bunch of extra levers? Who knows, but IMO the touchscreens aren't that good as well. The jury is still out on what's the best way of approaching this.

mrtksn 6y ago

I just wanted to see how the things evolved and apparently in 2021 some new Mazda's DO HAVE touchscreen infotainment: https://youtu.be/eIfP2vcZD7M?t=582 https://youtu.be/eIfP2vcZD7M?t=582 Other Mazda's don't: https://youtu.be/z5k5Oqfyn2Y?t=510 https://youtu.be/z5k5Oqfyn2Y?t=510

CraigJPerry 6y ago
That's optional touch - which is ideal, best of both worlds but there is a BMW iDrive still controller between the passengers for the screen, you can see it later in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=582&v=eIfP2vcZD7M&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=582&v=eIfP2vcZD7M&feature=yo...
thedrbrian 6y ago
That’s because the 6 is the old/current 6 with the old nav/infotainment whereas the CX-5 is new. Once the new generation mazda6 comes out I assume it’ll get updated to the new dash/infotainment.
- seniorgarcia 6y ago
  As someone currently shopping for a new car, the current CX-5, the current MX-5 and the Mazda 6 come with a touchscreen setup. *EDIT: Also all the VW models in the Golf and Passat Range come with a touchscreen, the low-end Fiats are the same, Mercedes is no different, even the low-end at Dacia comes with a touchscreen. If you can find a car manufacturer that does not think a touchscreen is the way to go, I'll be surprised. \EDIT2: Since I looked at everything else in my neighborhood as well... Audi does a touchscreen center console for everything. You can get the Renault Twingo without any electronics but if you take the climate control you also get a touch screen. Honda and Hyundai will include a touch screen with everything as well. The only cars I got offered without a touchscreen center console is the Mitsubishi outlander and there it is only 1 model.
  - olyjohn 6y ago
    All new cars are mandated to have back-up cameras. This means they have to put a screen in the car for every new car. It probably doesn't add much to make it a touch screen... but the irony here is that we added backup cameras for safety, and now we've got a dangerous distraction piece on the car.

rsj_hn 6y ago

I'm really impressed with Mazda, they seem to be staying on the right side of several trends where the industry is going in the other direction. They still make cars that are a bit more responsive whereas the industry is making either luxury floaters or crazy horsepower monsters. Good handling, they avoid CVT and have a very practical approach to tech. If anyone is a fan of MotoMan, he's done some cool deep dives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMke4Fl4gyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMke4Fl4gyw (Sorry if this sounds like an ad, I'm not affiliated with them but have been scouting for a car recently.)

andrepd 6y ago
> they avoid CVT Is that a good thing?
- nerdponx 6y ago
  I can't speak for nowadays, but my experience with early non-hybrid CVT vehicles was negative. I test drove a Nissan Versa and the engine was sitting at around 4k RPM doing 60 MPH on the highway. It was very loud for a small hatchback, and generally unpleasant to drive.
  - sebastien_b 6y ago
    That’s what I used to have (2008) and it wasn’t like that for me. Your experience sounds like the overdrive was off. Or the transmission was dying/defective.
    - nerdponx 6y ago
      I think I tested the Versa in 2008. I specifically raised this concern with the car salesman who was sitting in the passenger seat; he insisted it was normal. Weird!
      - sebastien_b 6y ago
        Yeah weird, cause mine ran in the normal RPM range at those speeds.

heywire 6y ago

I love my Mazda CX-5. The navigation wheel works wonderfully, even with Apple CarPlay. I definitely miss it when I drive my wife’s Hyundai Tucson.