5 ms·

Falling sperm counts could threaten the human race

24 points by joubert 6y ago

11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
In terms of literally ending the human race, this seems a bit of hyperbole. The statistic that matters is the percentage of women who want to have children but cannot. I didn't see that pointed to as a trend, and if it actually did become worrisome, those who have virile sperm can donate so those women can still become pregnant.
- ironmagma 6y ago
  It’s not okay if you’re just scraping the bottom of the barrel for viable sperm. All of human evolution, there has been a wide variety of males to choose from, of whom only a small percentage reproduce. That’s how we evolve. If we are arbitrarily eliminating say half of all the males due to environmental reasons from the pool, that’s a big problem for our ability to evolve.
  - taylodl 6y ago
    Environment pressure is a huge force in Natural Selection. If the changing environment makes it so that 50% of males can't sire offspring then Natural Selection is working, right? I'm not following how this is "bottom of the barrel", this appears to be simply how Nature works.
    - ironmagma 6y ago
      Yes, but historically the environmental limitations have likely been a bit more meaningful than, "this group of males unknowingly bought product X which unknowingly contained contaminants from a grocery store," or "this group of males live near an airport."
      - taylodl 6y ago
        Natural Selection is going to select for who's best able to survive in a man-made world. We already see that happening with animals. I'm not entirely sure this is a bad thing but simply how the entire ecosystem is evolving.
        ironmagma 6y ago
        Right, that's how things are, but it's not probably what should be. Man-made contraptions are hardly long-term stable or hospitable to life, including our own. Additionally, IVF bypasses natural selection since it is artificial.
lm28469 6y ago
> Total sperm count in the Western world had fallen 59% between 1973 and 2011. It doesn't take a genius to see that the West is degenerating. We've never been so fat, unhealthy, lazy, complacent, &c. when our whole lifestyle revolves around producing chemical waste and consuming exhaust fume, micro plastics and leftover pesticides it really isn't a surprise our bodies are starting to fail, garbage in garbage out. But hey, we have netflix and the stock market is up so I guess all is good
- loceng 6y ago
  The industrial complexes, duopoly in political party fed by the industrial complexes, suffocating people extracting as much value for themselves as possible will need to change soon if the US is to recover. I believe Andrew Yang's core policies will this by supporting individuals adequately and strengthening the democratic process - primarily by breaking apart the duopoly.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  Fatter, yes. But I think it might surprise you how toxic basic life was in the 1950s. There was a time that this was a normal day in London - https://i.imgur.com/8jRGvYf.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/8jRGvYf.jpeg And this, a normal day in LA - https://i.imgur.com/YlimuGS.jpg https://i.imgur.com/YlimuGS.jpg
  - lm28469 6y ago
    Big cities have always sucked and probably sucked more before yes (just have a look at industrial revolution London), but I'm not talking about air pollution only, it's our hole lifestyles, just walk in a supermarket, what's the ratio of fresh food to junk food ? 10/90 ? maybe even smaller. Kids obesity has never been so high, adult obesity is going up everywhere, not a month goes by without food related scandals, biodiversity is tanking mostly because of humans, fruits/veggies are less and less nutritious, infertility is going up, &c. It's like every single meaningful metrics are going down
    - machinebun 6y ago
belltaco 6y ago
The problem with everywhere chemicals and the longer time period they potentially act on is that there is probably no way of designing a study to compare two cohorts that are exposed/not exposed to those chemicals. Best we can do is study isolated or tribal populations but that introduces a whole lot of other variables that modern life has that confound the data.
cdiamand 6y ago
Similar piece in the times recently: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/opinion/sunday/endocrine-disruptors-sperm.html?searchResultPosition=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/opinion/sunday/endocrine-...
AntiImperialist 6y ago
Meh! You only need a few men who don't have this problem and we'll be able to keep the human population unaffected. So, don't worry, you can as much soy, vegetable oils and vegan food that you want. The human race is not going away because of this. I'd be much worried if it was the female reproductive capacity that was at risk.
sroussey 6y ago
Not to mention Covid-19, and of course the mumps virus. https://physician-news.umiamihealth.org/covid-19-can-infect-testes-with-potential-implications-for-male-fertility/ https://physician-news.umiamihealth.org/covid-19-can-infect-...
merricksb 6y ago
NYTimes article discussing this book was heavily discussed here a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26221925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26221925
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jonnycomputer 6y ago
Nuclear annihilation is a much more likely threat to the human race. We just constantly shove it out of our minds because its too damn scary. I know I do. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, or focus on my job if I thought about it too much. Climate change is also scary. And could lead to conflicts that cause nuclear exchanges. That's also a more credible threat than falling sperm count. Falling sperm count may be a big concern, but how scary it is really depends on the cause. If falling sperm count just means that our population slowly drops to sustainable levels, levels where just washing clothes made of nylon no longer causes damaging plastic pollution in the arctic, for example, then that might not be the worst outcome (relative to the counterfactual such as population-dependent climate-change-induced nuclear-exchanges over scarce resources). And if plastic pollution is the cause of falling sperm count, it might just be self correcting...
- Huwyt_Nashi025 6y ago
  Most (all?) Western populations are well below sustainable already, and falling sharply. It's a big reason for this unprecedented replacement migration from African and Asian countries, in particular, where women may average 7 or more children each.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Take it easy! Spontane Verdampfung führt zur Entkrampfung! (Spontaneous vaporization leads to relaxation!) Yeeeehaaaaw!
emrah 6y ago
Earth is overpopulated anyway, so this is sort of a good thing

24 points by joubert 6y ago

In terms of literally ending the human race, this seems a bit of hyperbole. The statistic that matters is the percentage of women who want to have children but cannot. I didn't see that pointed to as a trend, and if it actually did become worrisome, those who have virile sperm can donate so those women can still become pregnant.

ironmagma 6y ago
It’s not okay if you’re just scraping the bottom of the barrel for viable sperm. All of human evolution, there has been a wide variety of males to choose from, of whom only a small percentage reproduce. That’s how we evolve. If we are arbitrarily eliminating say half of all the males due to environmental reasons from the pool, that’s a big problem for our ability to evolve.
- taylodl 6y ago
  Environment pressure is a huge force in Natural Selection. If the changing environment makes it so that 50% of males can't sire offspring then Natural Selection is working, right? I'm not following how this is "bottom of the barrel", this appears to be simply how Nature works.
  - ironmagma 6y ago
    Yes, but historically the environmental limitations have likely been a bit more meaningful than, "this group of males unknowingly bought product X which unknowingly contained contaminants from a grocery store," or "this group of males live near an airport."
    - taylodl 6y ago
      Natural Selection is going to select for who's best able to survive in a man-made world. We already see that happening with animals. I'm not entirely sure this is a bad thing but simply how the entire ecosystem is evolving.
      - ironmagma 6y ago
        Right, that's how things are, but it's not probably what should be. Man-made contraptions are hardly long-term stable or hospitable to life, including our own. Additionally, IVF bypasses natural selection since it is artificial.

lm28469 6y ago

> Total sperm count in the Western world had fallen 59% between 1973 and 2011. It doesn't take a genius to see that the West is degenerating. We've never been so fat, unhealthy, lazy, complacent, &c. when our whole lifestyle revolves around producing chemical waste and consuming exhaust fume, micro plastics and leftover pesticides it really isn't a surprise our bodies are starting to fail, garbage in garbage out. But hey, we have netflix and the stock market is up so I guess all is good

loceng 6y ago
The industrial complexes, duopoly in political party fed by the industrial complexes, suffocating people extracting as much value for themselves as possible will need to change soon if the US is to recover. I believe Andrew Yang's core policies will this by supporting individuals adequately and strengthening the democratic process - primarily by breaking apart the duopoly.
missedthecue 6y ago
Fatter, yes. But I think it might surprise you how toxic basic life was in the 1950s. There was a time that this was a normal day in London - https://i.imgur.com/8jRGvYf.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/8jRGvYf.jpeg And this, a normal day in LA - https://i.imgur.com/YlimuGS.jpg https://i.imgur.com/YlimuGS.jpg
- lm28469 6y ago
  Big cities have always sucked and probably sucked more before yes (just have a look at industrial revolution London), but I'm not talking about air pollution only, it's our hole lifestyles, just walk in a supermarket, what's the ratio of fresh food to junk food ? 10/90 ? maybe even smaller. Kids obesity has never been so high, adult obesity is going up everywhere, not a month goes by without food related scandals, biodiversity is tanking mostly because of humans, fruits/veggies are less and less nutritious, infertility is going up, &c. It's like every single meaningful metrics are going down
  - machinebun 6y ago

belltaco 6y ago

The problem with everywhere chemicals and the longer time period they potentially act on is that there is probably no way of designing a study to compare two cohorts that are exposed/not exposed to those chemicals. Best we can do is study isolated or tribal populations but that introduces a whole lot of other variables that modern life has that confound the data.

cdiamand 6y ago

Similar piece in the times recently: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/opinion/sunday/endocrine-disruptors-sperm.html?searchResultPosition=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/opinion/sunday/endocrine-...

AntiImperialist 6y ago

Meh! You only need a few men who don't have this problem and we'll be able to keep the human population unaffected. So, don't worry, you can as much soy, vegetable oils and vegan food that you want. The human race is not going away because of this. I'd be much worried if it was the female reproductive capacity that was at risk.

sroussey 6y ago

Not to mention Covid-19, and of course the mumps virus. https://physician-news.umiamihealth.org/covid-19-can-infect-testes-with-potential-implications-for-male-fertility/ https://physician-news.umiamihealth.org/covid-19-can-infect-...

merricksb 6y ago

NYTimes article discussing this book was heavily discussed here a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26221925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26221925

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jonnycomputer 6y ago

Nuclear annihilation is a much more likely threat to the human race. We just constantly shove it out of our minds because its too damn scary. I know I do. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, or focus on my job if I thought about it too much. Climate change is also scary. And could lead to conflicts that cause nuclear exchanges. That's also a more credible threat than falling sperm count. Falling sperm count may be a big concern, but how scary it is really depends on the cause. If falling sperm count just means that our population slowly drops to sustainable levels, levels where just washing clothes made of nylon no longer causes damaging plastic pollution in the arctic, for example, then that might not be the worst outcome (relative to the counterfactual such as population-dependent climate-change-induced nuclear-exchanges over scarce resources). And if plastic pollution is the cause of falling sperm count, it might just be self correcting...

Huwyt_Nashi025 6y ago
Most (all?) Western populations are well below sustainable already, and falling sharply. It's a big reason for this unprecedented replacement migration from African and Asian countries, in particular, where women may average 7 or more children each.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Take it easy! Spontane Verdampfung führt zur Entkrampfung! (Spontaneous vaporization leads to relaxation!) Yeeeehaaaaw!

emrah 6y ago

Earth is overpopulated anyway, so this is sort of a good thing