5 ms·

Just an FYI that your home may already have a grid-connected meter outside, and it may already have a wireless interface. For example, if you're a ComEd custom

Just an FYI that your home may already have a grid-connected meter outside, and it may already have a wireless interface. For example, if you're a ComEd customer in the Chicago area, your smart meter is Zigbee-enabled and works with a handful of approved devices: https://www.comed.com/WaysToSave/ForYourHome/Pages/SmartMeterConnectedDevices.aspx https://www.comed.com/WaysToSave/ForYourHome/Pages/SmartMete... The information won't be as finely detailed since it's not sensing every circuit in the home, but for $70 and no tinkering necessary I can read my home's consumption in XML format every 10 seconds.

linkalus 6y ago
Which device do you have that gives xml output?
- joezydeco 6y ago
  Rainforest RAVEn USB. It looks like an FTDI-type serial port to a host. If you skip their application and just open the port it constantly sends data. https://rainforestautomation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/raven_datasheet_1.8.pdf https://rainforestautomation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/... Might be discontinued now, but I think Rainforest's gateway product is a continuation.
etcet 6y ago
You've just made me run outside to check my meter. What do you use to read it and are you happy with it?
- joezydeco 6y ago
  Rainforest Automation device, see below. Am I happy with it? Good question. I dropped RRTP last summer so I'm not as involved with it anymore. It doesn't really tell me much that I don't know, I suppose.
rootusrootus 6y ago
And even meters that don't have zigbee might be readable using an RTL-SDR. You do have to figure out which one is yours and which are your neighbors, though.
- joezydeco 6y ago
  Pretty sure that the datastream is encrypted. Being able to sniff your neighbor's power consumption from far away is a pretty large security hole.
  - KingMachiavelli 6y ago
    At least the ones I have seen are not. I am able to read the all the power meters in my building with a cheap USB SDR and this software. https://github.com/bemasher/rtlamr https://github.com/bemasher/rtlamr I have not gotten around to figuring out which one is mine or a good way to system to store/display the data but I certainly can read the date. In the grand scheme of things it is a minor to medium security flaw, power usage could be used to infer which houses contain valuable items and when people are home. I'd say medium at most since a lot of other things Visible curbside indicate this as well (lights, cars in the driveway, etc.). On the other hand, electronics are pretty efficient. A wealthy house with all the lights on is still using less electricity than a small apartment using an electric stove. But I guess if you were really interested in stealing electric cars then it would be really useful.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    I imagine it depends on location, but there are places where it's wide open. "Using a cheap RTL-SDR, it didn’t take long for [k-roy] to tap into this transmission and stumbled across the power readings for his entire neighborhood using a simple command" https://hackaday.com/2017/12/21/read-home-power-meters-with-rtl-sdr/ https://hackaday.com/2017/12/21/read-home-power-meters-with-...
  - cromka 6y ago
    As was pointed out, you still have to figure out which signal comes from which meter, so unless you find a way to tag them all, they’re anonymous.
detaro 6y ago
And some power meters have IR-based interfaces. A "blink every X Wh of energy used" LED is quite common, but some also have bidirectional IR interfaces, recognizable by a metal circle with two lenses at the front (read heads are magnetic and simply set on the metal plate). (might be a European thing though)
ssl-3 6y ago
AEP Ohio ended their program last year. But before that, they even went as far as sending out freebie Wifi-connected Zigbee bridges to interface the meter before the program went tits-up. Now that there are zero applications for it, it's about as useful as a dumb meter. Progress.
- robotbikes 6y ago
  Yeah this was in part because of H.B. 6 the nuclear bailout which is also related to one of the biggest bribery scandals in Ohio politics. The smart meters were mandated by the energy efficiency aspects of the renewable energy provisions that were stripped out so that they could give money to make nuclear energy and coal power plants stay on-line. They cut the renewable energy goals and energy efficiency provisions so they could pretend like they were saving consumers money by giving the $ directly to the nuclear plant owners. Of course most of this is on-hold right now due to the 60 million dollar kickback and court injunctions but so far the legislature doesn't seem likely to restore the energy efficiency aspects. The utility companies still benefit from real time monitoring of their customers and remote cut-off but I guess there is no way to interface with the meter directly now.

linkalus 6y ago

Which device do you have that gives xml output?

joezydeco 6y ago
Rainforest RAVEn USB. It looks like an FTDI-type serial port to a host. If you skip their application and just open the port it constantly sends data. https://rainforestautomation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/raven_datasheet_1.8.pdf https://rainforestautomation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/... Might be discontinued now, but I think Rainforest's gateway product is a continuation.

etcet 6y ago

You've just made me run outside to check my meter. What do you use to read it and are you happy with it?

joezydeco 6y ago
Rainforest Automation device, see below. Am I happy with it? Good question. I dropped RRTP last summer so I'm not as involved with it anymore. It doesn't really tell me much that I don't know, I suppose.

rootusrootus 6y ago

And even meters that don't have zigbee might be readable using an RTL-SDR. You do have to figure out which one is yours and which are your neighbors, though.

joezydeco 6y ago
Pretty sure that the datastream is encrypted. Being able to sniff your neighbor's power consumption from far away is a pretty large security hole.
- KingMachiavelli 6y ago
  At least the ones I have seen are not. I am able to read the all the power meters in my building with a cheap USB SDR and this software. https://github.com/bemasher/rtlamr https://github.com/bemasher/rtlamr I have not gotten around to figuring out which one is mine or a good way to system to store/display the data but I certainly can read the date. In the grand scheme of things it is a minor to medium security flaw, power usage could be used to infer which houses contain valuable items and when people are home. I'd say medium at most since a lot of other things Visible curbside indicate this as well (lights, cars in the driveway, etc.). On the other hand, electronics are pretty efficient. A wealthy house with all the lights on is still using less electricity than a small apartment using an electric stove. But I guess if you were really interested in stealing electric cars then it would be really useful.
- tyingq 6y ago
  I imagine it depends on location, but there are places where it's wide open. "Using a cheap RTL-SDR, it didn’t take long for [k-roy] to tap into this transmission and stumbled across the power readings for his entire neighborhood using a simple command" https://hackaday.com/2017/12/21/read-home-power-meters-with-rtl-sdr/ https://hackaday.com/2017/12/21/read-home-power-meters-with-...
- cromka 6y ago
  As was pointed out, you still have to figure out which signal comes from which meter, so unless you find a way to tag them all, they’re anonymous.

detaro 6y ago

And some power meters have IR-based interfaces. A "blink every X Wh of energy used" LED is quite common, but some also have bidirectional IR interfaces, recognizable by a metal circle with two lenses at the front (read heads are magnetic and simply set on the metal plate). (might be a European thing though)

ssl-3 6y ago

AEP Ohio ended their program last year. But before that, they even went as far as sending out freebie Wifi-connected Zigbee bridges to interface the meter before the program went tits-up. Now that there are zero applications for it, it's about as useful as a dumb meter. Progress.

robotbikes 6y ago
Yeah this was in part because of H.B. 6 the nuclear bailout which is also related to one of the biggest bribery scandals in Ohio politics. The smart meters were mandated by the energy efficiency aspects of the renewable energy provisions that were stripped out so that they could give money to make nuclear energy and coal power plants stay on-line. They cut the renewable energy goals and energy efficiency provisions so they could pretend like they were saving consumers money by giving the $ directly to the nuclear plant owners. Of course most of this is on-hold right now due to the 60 million dollar kickback and court injunctions but so far the legislature doesn't seem likely to restore the energy efficiency aspects. The utility companies still benefit from real time monitoring of their customers and remote cut-off but I guess there is no way to interface with the meter directly now.