4 ms·

So probably 10MWh to build a Tesla, before even driving it?

by bfrog 6y ago

ppf 6y ago
Nearer 25MWh, and that's just for the battery pack. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0007850617301099 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00078...
- ppf 6y ago
  Also, just for fun, the embodied energy of a 1960's Fiat 500 (assuming its entire 500kg weight is made of steel, which is probably a good enough approximation) is 3MWh, or three laptops. So what is more sustainable?
  - imtringued 6y ago
    An electric bike?
    - ppf 6y ago
      You're not wrong. However, every time I think about that, I just tell myself to pedal harder ;)
xxs 6y ago
just for reference 1kg of aluminum raw material,not alloy, not processed, not packed, not transported - just mined is over 40KWh. In that regard even the raw materials for the car are orders of magnitude over.
- ppf 6y ago
  Indeed. The embodied energy of the items we use every day is so under-appreciated, probably because we have outsourced the production of almost all of them to countries that have no problem burning oil and coal in the process. Really, if we actually wanted to make motoring sustainable, we would all be driving a 60's era Fiat 500 or Honda C50 moped. They cost very little to make, in every way, are very fuel effecient (even with their very old engine designs), and discourage long journeys. That won't work though, because there's too much money to be made from EVs.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Is there anything wrong with that? If people want EVs that's better than people wanting modern gas guzzlers.
    - ppf 6y ago
      Yes. People are not being given a choice (at least, here in the UK). Petrol cars are being legislated out of existence. Ideally, I want a reliable, cost-effective family car without any extra gadgets, and I don't want an EV. However, those cars are just not made any more. Also, I doubt the people that want a gas guzzler will be among the first to switch to an EV.
      - xxs 6y ago
        I have a hybrid (so it can be charged home, for 3000km we used only 50L of gasoline) - the EV drive is amazing, (if not spooky) - silent start, no noise, no vibrations (of course no exhaust), so it's great for city drive. For longer haul - there is the gasoline. For added benefit the total power of both engines engaged is quite impressive, along with acceleration. Until there is a massive network that can reliably charge on the go, gasoline is there to stay. Also flip note: I know Norway loves EV (due to tons of tax breaks), yet EV do suck at lower temps (say below -10C)

So probably 10MWh to build a Tesla, before even driving it?

by bfrog 6y ago

So probably 10MWh to build a Tesla, before even driving it?

ppf 6y ago

Nearer 25MWh, and that's just for the battery pack. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0007850617301099 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00078...

ppf 6y ago
Also, just for fun, the embodied energy of a 1960's Fiat 500 (assuming its entire 500kg weight is made of steel, which is probably a good enough approximation) is 3MWh, or three laptops. So what is more sustainable?
- imtringued 6y ago
  An electric bike?
  - ppf 6y ago
    You're not wrong. However, every time I think about that, I just tell myself to pedal harder ;)

xxs 6y ago

just for reference 1kg of aluminum raw material,not alloy, not processed, not packed, not transported - just mined is over 40KWh. In that regard even the raw materials for the car are orders of magnitude over.

ppf 6y ago
Indeed. The embodied energy of the items we use every day is so under-appreciated, probably because we have outsourced the production of almost all of them to countries that have no problem burning oil and coal in the process. Really, if we actually wanted to make motoring sustainable, we would all be driving a 60's era Fiat 500 or Honda C50 moped. They cost very little to make, in every way, are very fuel effecient (even with their very old engine designs), and discourage long journeys. That won't work though, because there's too much money to be made from EVs.
- imtringued 6y ago
  Is there anything wrong with that? If people want EVs that's better than people wanting modern gas guzzlers.
  - ppf 6y ago
    Yes. People are not being given a choice (at least, here in the UK). Petrol cars are being legislated out of existence. Ideally, I want a reliable, cost-effective family car without any extra gadgets, and I don't want an EV. However, those cars are just not made any more. Also, I doubt the people that want a gas guzzler will be among the first to switch to an EV.
    - xxs 6y ago
      I have a hybrid (so it can be charged home, for 3000km we used only 50L of gasoline) - the EV drive is amazing, (if not spooky) - silent start, no noise, no vibrations (of course no exhaust), so it's great for city drive. For longer haul - there is the gasoline. For added benefit the total power of both engines engaged is quite impressive, along with acceleration. Until there is a massive network that can reliably charge on the go, gasoline is there to stay. Also flip note: I know Norway loves EV (due to tons of tax breaks), yet EV do suck at lower temps (say below -10C)