7 ms·

"But higher wages can buy many dinners." "Explain how!" "Money can be exchanged for goods and services"

by andrepd 6y ago

azinman2 6y ago
Simpsons FTW
- gremlinsinc 6y ago
  Historians will be comparing the Simpson's to the Delphi Oracle in Ancient Greece, except one was pretty damn accurate.
CobrastanJorji 6y ago
But see, when your union negotiates, the result is uncertain. It might end up with you getting more money, with you getting the same amount of money, or with your union rep murdering a baby and then framing you for the crime. Do you really want to take that chance?
- aktschually 6y ago
  Or it might end up with you losing your job to a robot.
  - sodality2 6y ago
    Amazon will do that anyway if it's cheaper. It probably is cheaper, union or not.
  - Bakary 6y ago
    People will lose their jobs en masse regardless of unions. The concentration of wealth and capture of surplus that we will see in the coming decades will probably make feudalism look like child's play
    - ozborn 6y ago
      It's not a foregone conclusion. While I'm sure some in the gilded age or in the 1920s thought that, it didn't last forever.
    - aktschually 6y ago
      If you are unhappy with the terms or products of a company, you are free to shop or work elsewhere. That is the difference. "Capture of surplus" is hate speech - without those companies, there would be no surplus to begin with, that anybody could capture. If you believe those companies will capture so much surplus, you could also buy some of their stock and participate.
      - andrepd 6y ago
        The things you read I swear. > If you are unhappy with the terms or products of a company, you are free to shop or work elsewhere. If you don't work you starve, or at the very least lose your house, car, maybe even your kids. There is no "freedom" of choice, and this is painfully obvious to anybody who is not stuck neck-deep in dogmatic ideology. > If you believe those companies will capture so much surplus, you could also buy some of their stock and participate. Sure, let me just get a small loan of 300 mil a month to build my competitor to Uber. If you're not independently wealthy you probably cannot even get 100k of credit to open a restaurant or a similar small business. Again, that access to capital (nevermind to education, connections, etc) is profoundly unequal, and thus that "just start your own business" is am absurd statement, is also obvious to anyone who isn't blinded by ideology. > "Capture of surplus" is hate speech Ahahahaha
        htnsao 6y ago
        Where there's a will, there's a way. Have you checked out crowdfunding these days? It's probably never been easier.
      - krageon 6y ago
        > you are free This argument is made often and is patently in bad faith. You understand and I hope your readers understand there is a power disparity and a prevalent culture that has a certain effect on your ability to "be free" (of what? To go elsewhere and have the same shit done to you? To have your family go hungry because some HR shithead blackballed you?). On a personal level I would ask you to stop actively trying to make the world worse by parroting capitalist propaganda built specifically to disempower workers.
missedthecue 6y ago
Kroger is unionized and they pay 1/2 of what Amazon does in my area. I don't think unionizing low skill work necessarily leads to higher wages
- fennecfoxen 6y ago
  In the end, we can also expect that Amazon's money will some day be exchanged for robots, and most of these employees will lose the Amazon jobs.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Only if the robots join the Union!
- pwinnski 6y ago
  And yet when comparing apples to apples, unionized workers apparently earn an average of 11.2% more[0]. 0. https://www.epi.org/publication/why-unions-are-good-for-workers-especially-in-a-crisis-like-covid-19-12-policies-that-would-boost-worker-rights-safety-and-wages/ https://www.epi.org/publication/why-unions-are-good-for-work...

"But higher wages can buy many dinners." "Explain how!" "Money can be exchanged for goods and services"

azinman2 6y ago

Simpsons FTW

gremlinsinc 6y ago
Historians will be comparing the Simpson's to the Delphi Oracle in Ancient Greece, except one was pretty damn accurate.

CobrastanJorji 6y ago

But see, when your union negotiates, the result is uncertain. It might end up with you getting more money, with you getting the same amount of money, or with your union rep murdering a baby and then framing you for the crime. Do you really want to take that chance?

aktschually 6y ago
Or it might end up with you losing your job to a robot.
- sodality2 6y ago
  Amazon will do that anyway if it's cheaper. It probably is cheaper, union or not.
- Bakary 6y ago
  People will lose their jobs en masse regardless of unions. The concentration of wealth and capture of surplus that we will see in the coming decades will probably make feudalism look like child's play
  - ozborn 6y ago
    It's not a foregone conclusion. While I'm sure some in the gilded age or in the 1920s thought that, it didn't last forever.
  - aktschually 6y ago
    If you are unhappy with the terms or products of a company, you are free to shop or work elsewhere. That is the difference. "Capture of surplus" is hate speech - without those companies, there would be no surplus to begin with, that anybody could capture. If you believe those companies will capture so much surplus, you could also buy some of their stock and participate.
    - andrepd 6y ago
      The things you read I swear. > If you are unhappy with the terms or products of a company, you are free to shop or work elsewhere. If you don't work you starve, or at the very least lose your house, car, maybe even your kids. There is no "freedom" of choice, and this is painfully obvious to anybody who is not stuck neck-deep in dogmatic ideology. > If you believe those companies will capture so much surplus, you could also buy some of their stock and participate. Sure, let me just get a small loan of 300 mil a month to build my competitor to Uber. If you're not independently wealthy you probably cannot even get 100k of credit to open a restaurant or a similar small business. Again, that access to capital (nevermind to education, connections, etc) is profoundly unequal, and thus that "just start your own business" is am absurd statement, is also obvious to anyone who isn't blinded by ideology. > "Capture of surplus" is hate speech Ahahahaha
      - htnsao 6y ago
        Where there's a will, there's a way. Have you checked out crowdfunding these days? It's probably never been easier.
    - krageon 6y ago
      > you are free This argument is made often and is patently in bad faith. You understand and I hope your readers understand there is a power disparity and a prevalent culture that has a certain effect on your ability to "be free" (of what? To go elsewhere and have the same shit done to you? To have your family go hungry because some HR shithead blackballed you?). On a personal level I would ask you to stop actively trying to make the world worse by parroting capitalist propaganda built specifically to disempower workers.

missedthecue 6y ago

Kroger is unionized and they pay 1/2 of what Amazon does in my area. I don't think unionizing low skill work necessarily leads to higher wages

fennecfoxen 6y ago
In the end, we can also expect that Amazon's money will some day be exchanged for robots, and most of these employees will lose the Amazon jobs.
- zepto 6y ago
  Only if the robots join the Union!
pwinnski 6y ago
And yet when comparing apples to apples, unionized workers apparently earn an average of 11.2% more[0]. 0. https://www.epi.org/publication/why-unions-are-good-for-workers-especially-in-a-crisis-like-covid-19-12-policies-that-would-boost-worker-rights-safety-and-wages/ https://www.epi.org/publication/why-unions-are-good-for-work...