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Wow, just wow. "Don’t buy that dinner, don’t buy those school supplies, don’t buy those gifts because you won’t have that almost $500 you paid in dues." It seem

Wow, just wow. "Don’t buy that dinner, don’t buy those school supplies, don’t buy those gifts because you won’t have that almost $500 you paid in dues." It seems Amazon's main argument for why people shouldn't join a union is that Amazon's wages are so low that they cannot financially afford to. That's almost like saying "You're too poor to fight for your rights. Know your place."

_jal 6y ago
> "You're too poor to fight for your rights. Know your place." Well, yes. The goal of an antiunion campaign is the demoralization/ disempowerment of the workforce. Notice also the recent push for "experimental polities", AKA company towns.
- CodeMage 6y ago
  St. Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go, I owe my soul to the company store.
- nexthash 6y ago
  For context about "experimental polities" like the failed Toronto SideWalk labs [1], I've linked an article below [2]. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/07/sidewalk-labs-shuts-down-toronto-project/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/07/sidewalk-labs-shuts-down-t... [2] https://theconversation.com/will-silicon-valleys-new-company-towns-end-up-as-failed-utopias-94270 https://theconversation.com/will-silicon-valleys-new-company...
andrepd 6y ago
"But higher wages can buy many dinners." "Explain how!" "Money can be exchanged for goods and services"
- azinman2 6y ago
  Simpsons FTW
  - gremlinsinc 6y ago
    Historians will be comparing the Simpson's to the Delphi Oracle in Ancient Greece, except one was pretty damn accurate.
- CobrastanJorji 6y ago
  But see, when your union negotiates, the result is uncertain. It might end up with you getting more money, with you getting the same amount of money, or with your union rep murdering a baby and then framing you for the crime. Do you really want to take that chance?
  - aktschually 6y ago
    Or it might end up with you losing your job to a robot.
    - sodality2 6y ago
      Amazon will do that anyway if it's cheaper. It probably is cheaper, union or not.
    - Bakary 6y ago
      People will lose their jobs en masse regardless of unions. The concentration of wealth and capture of surplus that we will see in the coming decades will probably make feudalism look like child's play
      - ozborn 6y ago
        It's not a foregone conclusion. While I'm sure some in the gilded age or in the 1920s thought that, it didn't last forever.
      - aktschually 6y ago
        If you are unhappy with the terms or products of a company, you are free to shop or work elsewhere. That is the difference. "Capture of surplus" is hate speech - without those companies, there would be no surplus to begin with, that anybody could capture. If you believe those companies will capture so much surplus, you could also buy some of their stock and participate.
        andrepd 6y ago
        The things you read I swear. > If you are unhappy with the terms or products of a company, you are free to shop or work elsewhere. If you don't work you starve, or at the very least lose your house, car, maybe even your kids. There is no "freedom" of choice, and this is painfully obvious to anybody who is not stuck neck-deep in dogmatic ideology. > If you believe those companies will capture so much surplus, you could also buy some of their stock and participate. Sure, let me just get a small loan of 300 mil a month to build my competitor to Uber. If you're not independently wealthy you probably cannot even get 100k of credit to open a restaurant or a similar small business. Again, that access to capital (nevermind to education, connections, etc) is profoundly unequal, and thus that "just start your own business" is am absurd statement, is also obvious to anyone who isn't blinded by ideology. > "Capture of surplus" is hate speech Ahahahaha
- missedthecue 6y ago
  Kroger is unionized and they pay 1/2 of what Amazon does in my area. I don't think unionizing low skill work necessarily leads to higher wages
  - fennecfoxen 6y ago
    In the end, we can also expect that Amazon's money will some day be exchanged for robots, and most of these employees will lose the Amazon jobs.
    - zepto 6y ago
      Only if the robots join the Union!
  - pwinnski 6y ago
    And yet when comparing apples to apples, unionized workers apparently earn an average of 11.2% more[0]. 0. https://www.epi.org/publication/why-unions-are-good-for-workers-especially-in-a-crisis-like-covid-19-12-policies-that-would-boost-worker-rights-safety-and-wages/ https://www.epi.org/publication/why-unions-are-good-for-work...
cbozeman 6y ago
"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." - History of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides
kergonath 6y ago
This is exactly saying that. It’s like we’re back to the 19th century.
vgeek 6y ago
This rhetoric is bad, but even worse is how the $500 is portrayed. At first glance, I interpreted it to be $500 over a much shorter duration, like on a monthly basis, versus ~$10/week, which even at $15/hr seems manageable enough if it means higher wages, better treatment and/or benefits. That Amazon is fighting this so hard should signal that there is something meaningful to be gained by the workers. Hopefully they recognize this and succeed in organizing. The biggest question I would have is does Amazon pull a Walmart and just shutter the FC if they succeed?
gremlinsinc 6y ago
Jeff Bezos is now seriously contemplating changing this to their company slogan: "You're too poor to fight for your rights. Know your place."

_jal 6y ago

> "You're too poor to fight for your rights. Know your place." Well, yes. The goal of an antiunion campaign is the demoralization/ disempowerment of the workforce. Notice also the recent push for "experimental polities", AKA company towns.

CodeMage 6y ago
St. Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go, I owe my soul to the company store.
nexthash 6y ago
For context about "experimental polities" like the failed Toronto SideWalk labs [1], I've linked an article below [2]. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/07/sidewalk-labs-shuts-down-toronto-project/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/07/sidewalk-labs-shuts-down-t... [2] https://theconversation.com/will-silicon-valleys-new-company-towns-end-up-as-failed-utopias-94270 https://theconversation.com/will-silicon-valleys-new-company...

andrepd 6y ago

"But higher wages can buy many dinners." "Explain how!" "Money can be exchanged for goods and services"

azinman2 6y ago
Simpsons FTW
- gremlinsinc 6y ago
  Historians will be comparing the Simpson's to the Delphi Oracle in Ancient Greece, except one was pretty damn accurate.
CobrastanJorji 6y ago
But see, when your union negotiates, the result is uncertain. It might end up with you getting more money, with you getting the same amount of money, or with your union rep murdering a baby and then framing you for the crime. Do you really want to take that chance?
- aktschually 6y ago
  Or it might end up with you losing your job to a robot.
  - sodality2 6y ago
    Amazon will do that anyway if it's cheaper. It probably is cheaper, union or not.
  - Bakary 6y ago
    People will lose their jobs en masse regardless of unions. The concentration of wealth and capture of surplus that we will see in the coming decades will probably make feudalism look like child's play
    - ozborn 6y ago
      It's not a foregone conclusion. While I'm sure some in the gilded age or in the 1920s thought that, it didn't last forever.
    - aktschually 6y ago
      If you are unhappy with the terms or products of a company, you are free to shop or work elsewhere. That is the difference. "Capture of surplus" is hate speech - without those companies, there would be no surplus to begin with, that anybody could capture. If you believe those companies will capture so much surplus, you could also buy some of their stock and participate.
      - andrepd 6y ago
        The things you read I swear. > If you are unhappy with the terms or products of a company, you are free to shop or work elsewhere. If you don't work you starve, or at the very least lose your house, car, maybe even your kids. There is no "freedom" of choice, and this is painfully obvious to anybody who is not stuck neck-deep in dogmatic ideology. > If you believe those companies will capture so much surplus, you could also buy some of their stock and participate. Sure, let me just get a small loan of 300 mil a month to build my competitor to Uber. If you're not independently wealthy you probably cannot even get 100k of credit to open a restaurant or a similar small business. Again, that access to capital (nevermind to education, connections, etc) is profoundly unequal, and thus that "just start your own business" is am absurd statement, is also obvious to anyone who isn't blinded by ideology. > "Capture of surplus" is hate speech Ahahahaha
missedthecue 6y ago
Kroger is unionized and they pay 1/2 of what Amazon does in my area. I don't think unionizing low skill work necessarily leads to higher wages
- fennecfoxen 6y ago
  In the end, we can also expect that Amazon's money will some day be exchanged for robots, and most of these employees will lose the Amazon jobs.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Only if the robots join the Union!
- pwinnski 6y ago
  And yet when comparing apples to apples, unionized workers apparently earn an average of 11.2% more[0]. 0. https://www.epi.org/publication/why-unions-are-good-for-workers-especially-in-a-crisis-like-covid-19-12-policies-that-would-boost-worker-rights-safety-and-wages/ https://www.epi.org/publication/why-unions-are-good-for-work...

cbozeman 6y ago

"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." - History of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides

kergonath 6y ago

This is exactly saying that. It’s like we’re back to the 19th century.

vgeek 6y ago

This rhetoric is bad, but even worse is how the $500 is portrayed. At first glance, I interpreted it to be $500 over a much shorter duration, like on a monthly basis, versus ~$10/week, which even at $15/hr seems manageable enough if it means higher wages, better treatment and/or benefits. That Amazon is fighting this so hard should signal that there is something meaningful to be gained by the workers. Hopefully they recognize this and succeed in organizing. The biggest question I would have is does Amazon pull a Walmart and just shutter the FC if they succeed?

gremlinsinc 6y ago

Jeff Bezos is now seriously contemplating changing this to their company slogan: "You're too poor to fight for your rights. Know your place."