5 ms·

so... could a "subatomic centrifuge" of sorts be built to separate the quarks and antiquarks (using energy of course to pull them apart)? Would antimatter make

so... could a "subatomic centrifuge" of sorts be built to separate the quarks and antiquarks (using energy of course to pull them apart)? Would antimatter make a good energy storage medium?

lalaithion 6y ago
You cannot separate quarks and antiquarks. The force that holds them together increases, rather than decreases, the further apart you pull them, until the energy in that field is so strong it can spontaneously convert to matter in the form of a new quark and antiquark to bind to the now-separated old quark and antiquark.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  I've read that description before, and it always makes me feel like there must be a lay-appreciable way to describe those two modes that would provide more insight. There's a certain tension between the idea that something is composed of parts, yet it can't be separated. How is that fundamentally different from composite things which can be separated? That's a rhetorical question; I just mean there ought to be a more satisfying way of describing the dichotomy. Perhaps it can be described without math per se but in terms of visualizable fields?
  - refulgentis 6y ago
    picture a rubber band, lying in a circle, on a table left half band is red rubber right half is blue as you stretch the rubber band, it resists more and more when you pull hard enough, it breaks on the red/blue divide. a new red/blue half spontaneously appears for each. now you have two rubber bands
    - perl4ever 6y ago
      I've heard that sort of thing before. My point is, that when you consider that sort of explanation, and let's suppose it vaguely seems to make intuitive sense, then what about the things/particles that don't act like that? If the explanation of "A" doesn't distinguish between "A" and "not A" then it isn't in fact an explanation.
centimeter 6y ago
You can't pull apart quark pairs because the energy involved is so large it will create new quarks to pair up with the ones you're separating. Antimatter would make a great energy storage medium, if we could create it efficiently and in bulk.
- _kst_ 6y ago
  It would be great if (a) you could safely prevent it from releasing its energy when you don't want it to (KABOOM!), and (b) you could efficiently capture and use the energy it releases, which is going to consist largely of gamma rays. Now where did I leave that dilithium?
  - fnord77 6y ago
    CERN manages to safely capture antiprotons and move them around
    - _kst_ 6y ago
      Sure, but not nearly enough for practical energy storage and retrieval.
    - konjin 6y ago
      I can safely move around three eggs at a time, moving 3e9 eggs at a time is slightly more difficult.
      - robocat 6y ago
        A container ship loaded up with packaged eggs in containers could move 3e9 eggs. https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/49v7ik/request_how_many_trucks_full_of_eggs_would_be/ https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/49v7ik/requ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_ship
- phkahler 6y ago
  >> You can't pull apart quark pairs because the energy involved is so large it will create new quarks to pair up with the ones you're separating. What if baryons are electrostatic black holes? No quark can escape. Any infalling particle would slow down and never cross the event horizon as far as an outside observer could tell. Stuff like that...
_Microft 6y ago
Quarks cannot be separated. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_confinement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_confinement
frongpik 6y ago
I haven't been downvoted here for a while, so let me annoy HN a bit. In the standard physics model, quarks are inseparable because the magic force that binds them only grows when you try to pull quarks apart. Don't ask why, the magic force just has this property. Occultism, on the other hand, sees each proton composed of 9 particles that are held together by a stream of something like electricity (they call it "fohat") that pierces each particle thru its axis. Pulling any of the particles aside would be quite a feat, however it's trivial to choke that electricity stream to let all 9 particles free. This hypothesis is unfalsifiable with today's tech.

so... could a "subatomic centrifuge" of sorts be built to separate the quarks and antiquarks (using energy of course to pull them apart)? Would antimatter make a good energy storage medium?

lalaithion 6y ago

You cannot separate quarks and antiquarks. The force that holds them together increases, rather than decreases, the further apart you pull them, until the energy in that field is so strong it can spontaneously convert to matter in the form of a new quark and antiquark to bind to the now-separated old quark and antiquark.

perl4ever 6y ago
I've read that description before, and it always makes me feel like there must be a lay-appreciable way to describe those two modes that would provide more insight. There's a certain tension between the idea that something is composed of parts, yet it can't be separated. How is that fundamentally different from composite things which can be separated? That's a rhetorical question; I just mean there ought to be a more satisfying way of describing the dichotomy. Perhaps it can be described without math per se but in terms of visualizable fields?
- refulgentis 6y ago
  picture a rubber band, lying in a circle, on a table left half band is red rubber right half is blue as you stretch the rubber band, it resists more and more when you pull hard enough, it breaks on the red/blue divide. a new red/blue half spontaneously appears for each. now you have two rubber bands
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    I've heard that sort of thing before. My point is, that when you consider that sort of explanation, and let's suppose it vaguely seems to make intuitive sense, then what about the things/particles that don't act like that? If the explanation of "A" doesn't distinguish between "A" and "not A" then it isn't in fact an explanation.

centimeter 6y ago

You can't pull apart quark pairs because the energy involved is so large it will create new quarks to pair up with the ones you're separating. Antimatter would make a great energy storage medium, if we could create it efficiently and in bulk.

_kst_ 6y ago
It would be great if (a) you could safely prevent it from releasing its energy when you don't want it to (KABOOM!), and (b) you could efficiently capture and use the energy it releases, which is going to consist largely of gamma rays. Now where did I leave that dilithium?
- fnord77 6y ago
  CERN manages to safely capture antiprotons and move them around
  - _kst_ 6y ago
    Sure, but not nearly enough for practical energy storage and retrieval.
  - konjin 6y ago
    I can safely move around three eggs at a time, moving 3e9 eggs at a time is slightly more difficult.
    - robocat 6y ago
      A container ship loaded up with packaged eggs in containers could move 3e9 eggs. https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/49v7ik/request_how_many_trucks_full_of_eggs_would_be/ https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/49v7ik/requ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_ship
phkahler 6y ago
>> You can't pull apart quark pairs because the energy involved is so large it will create new quarks to pair up with the ones you're separating. What if baryons are electrostatic black holes? No quark can escape. Any infalling particle would slow down and never cross the event horizon as far as an outside observer could tell. Stuff like that...

_Microft 6y ago

Quarks cannot be separated. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_confinement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_confinement

frongpik 6y ago

I haven't been downvoted here for a while, so let me annoy HN a bit. In the standard physics model, quarks are inseparable because the magic force that binds them only grows when you try to pull quarks apart. Don't ask why, the magic force just has this property. Occultism, on the other hand, sees each proton composed of 9 particles that are held together by a stream of something like electricity (they call it "fohat") that pierces each particle thru its axis. Pulling any of the particles aside would be quite a feat, however it's trivial to choke that electricity stream to let all 9 particles free. This hypothesis is unfalsifiable with today's tech.