6 ms·

> Don't rationalize it with clichés like "love is all that matters" Counter data point. My wife is Argentinian. I'd say the values you see in her family prima

> Don't rationalize it with clichés like "love is all that matters" Counter data point. My wife is Argentinian. I'd say the values you see in her family primarily is "love does come first" and strict boundaries on kids. E.g. the adults are talking, go away. When I compare that to my own nieces and nephews, they have little boundaries, are quite lethargic and can be quite arrogant. Yet their parents would all describe themselves by your standards. We also tend to put our elderly in homes, an idea that is abhorrant to my wife. So I guess what I'm trying to say is ideals are nice. But it's purely theory, mostly to serve your own sensibilities.

NovaJehovah 6y ago
I'm not trying to say there's one right way to do things. But there are a lot of plainly wrong ways. If your parenting philosophy is not based on any research or learning about what's best for your child, but instead on what's easiest and most convenient for you, then you're probably doing it wrong. That doesn't mean you can't set boundaries for kids who are old enough to understand them. I think the way we discard our elderly is closely tied to our self-absorbed approach to parenting. If you don't put in the time and are unwilling to make sacrifices for your kids, you shouldn't expect them to be there for you when you need it.
- bihla 6y ago
  So much of the "research" is not research at all. It's no surprise to see anti-vaccine sentiment run strong among Grace Manning-Devlin types.
  - NovaJehovah 6y ago
    It's true. Yet another hard thing about being a parent is that there is a lot of crappy "research" and advice to wade through (including most of the research claiming to support your view, btw). But there's some solid stuff out there too--pretending there isn't because you might reach conclusions that conflict with a self-serving parenting philosophy is just another excuse.
    - ak217 6y ago
      Your advice in this thread falls into that category. You take some sort of puritanical ideal of hard work and sacrifice, then apply it to build a... distorted idea of what parenting is and to abstractly shame people who don't fit it, then ignore all requests for references to any research at all done on this, then repeat this over and over with everyone who's trying to figure out what you mean. From what I know, your ideas have no basis in reality. You're only adding noise for parents-to-be to sift through and worry about. Just raise your kids with love and patience, don't listen to armchair child psychiatrists.
      - NovaJehovah 6y ago
        It's always fun to be criticized for not citing research by people who don't cite anything themselves. You're the one advocating for an approach that is unnatural, brand new in human (and primate) history, and that causes both babies and parents visceral emotional distress. If I'm wrong about the research, why can't you prove it?
- novembermike 6y ago
  Keep in mind that the research around this is very poor. It's in the realm of things where flipping a coin might be better.
  - NovaJehovah 6y ago
    Most of it is, but not all of it. My own conclusion (which is not the one I wanted to reach, believe me) was that when you throw out all the bad research, the evidence, while not conclusive, does clearly point more in one direction than the other.
    - kaba0 6y ago
      Could you show such a research? Because you have been saying it all around the thread, some proof would be handy.
      - NovaJehovah 6y ago
        The major studies that have been done are fairly easy to find with some google investigation. I looked at them all over a year ago and formed my conclusions. I unfortunately didn't keep around a list of links to post in debates on internet forums. This post mentions a few of the main ones (I'm not vouching for the post's content): https://www.laleche.org.uk/letting-babies-cry-facts-behind-studies/ https://www.laleche.org.uk/letting-babies-cry-facts-behind-s...
info781 6y ago
Argentina is pretty messed up, low trust culture, outside of the family.

NovaJehovah 6y ago

I'm not trying to say there's one right way to do things. But there are a lot of plainly wrong ways. If your parenting philosophy is not based on any research or learning about what's best for your child, but instead on what's easiest and most convenient for you, then you're probably doing it wrong. That doesn't mean you can't set boundaries for kids who are old enough to understand them. I think the way we discard our elderly is closely tied to our self-absorbed approach to parenting. If you don't put in the time and are unwilling to make sacrifices for your kids, you shouldn't expect them to be there for you when you need it.

bihla 6y ago
So much of the "research" is not research at all. It's no surprise to see anti-vaccine sentiment run strong among Grace Manning-Devlin types.
- NovaJehovah 6y ago
  It's true. Yet another hard thing about being a parent is that there is a lot of crappy "research" and advice to wade through (including most of the research claiming to support your view, btw). But there's some solid stuff out there too--pretending there isn't because you might reach conclusions that conflict with a self-serving parenting philosophy is just another excuse.
  - ak217 6y ago
    Your advice in this thread falls into that category. You take some sort of puritanical ideal of hard work and sacrifice, then apply it to build a... distorted idea of what parenting is and to abstractly shame people who don't fit it, then ignore all requests for references to any research at all done on this, then repeat this over and over with everyone who's trying to figure out what you mean. From what I know, your ideas have no basis in reality. You're only adding noise for parents-to-be to sift through and worry about. Just raise your kids with love and patience, don't listen to armchair child psychiatrists.
    - NovaJehovah 6y ago
      It's always fun to be criticized for not citing research by people who don't cite anything themselves. You're the one advocating for an approach that is unnatural, brand new in human (and primate) history, and that causes both babies and parents visceral emotional distress. If I'm wrong about the research, why can't you prove it?
novembermike 6y ago
Keep in mind that the research around this is very poor. It's in the realm of things where flipping a coin might be better.
- NovaJehovah 6y ago
  Most of it is, but not all of it. My own conclusion (which is not the one I wanted to reach, believe me) was that when you throw out all the bad research, the evidence, while not conclusive, does clearly point more in one direction than the other.
  - kaba0 6y ago
    Could you show such a research? Because you have been saying it all around the thread, some proof would be handy.
    - NovaJehovah 6y ago
      The major studies that have been done are fairly easy to find with some google investigation. I looked at them all over a year ago and formed my conclusions. I unfortunately didn't keep around a list of links to post in debates on internet forums. This post mentions a few of the main ones (I'm not vouching for the post's content): https://www.laleche.org.uk/letting-babies-cry-facts-behind-studies/ https://www.laleche.org.uk/letting-babies-cry-facts-behind-s...

info781 6y ago

Argentina is pretty messed up, low trust culture, outside of the family.