11 ms·

USPS Selects Oshkosh Defense for Next Generation Delivery Vehicle Fleet

64 points by jonbaer 6y ago

kelchm 6y ago
Here’s a link with some renders of what the trucks are planned to look like: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35604138/usps-oshkosh-defense-new-mail-trucks/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35604138/usps-oshkosh-def...
- jpalomaki 6y ago
  I wonder if the designers watched "Postman Pat" [1] as kids. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postman_Pat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postman_Pat
- tropdrop 6y ago
  I'm oddly delighted at the prospect of seeing new mail delivery vehicles creep around a corner, even if the design seems a little ... odd (to me).
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  Big beautiful windshields to see the sky with, but there has to be some way to get rid of the A pillars on these vehicles. So many accidents are caused by vehicles turning left/right into pedestrians crossing the street because they are blocked by these pillars. I guess holograms work but an engineering solution where they could somehow be eliminated would be better.
  - EE84M3i 6y ago
    holograms? What do you mean?
    - oh_sigh 6y ago
      Sorry, I guess I mean something like AR that lets you see through the pillars. I was thinking a hologram because if it is just a straight projection that other people can see, they might constantly think you're going to run over a pedestrian that has already safely passed from the drivers point of view.
- heipei 6y ago
  Can someone walk through the vehicle odd detail by odd detail and explain every design decision? For me this is fascinating because there are probably many small items that have a practical benefit that I don't even see on the first glance. One question though: Why is the back slanted? Why doesn't it go straight down? Wouldn't that be preferable when it's raining, for example?
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Here are my educated non-expert guesses: * low front end, large amount of glass: aids in visibility when maneuvering in tight locations. * side mirrors are hung from the top: again, aiding visibility. You need to look at the road's surface more than you need to look at the sky. * two piece side window: it can pass packages while also protecting the driver from the weather * slanted rear: the person closing the door has a couple more inches to get a steady footing while reaching over their head to close the tall door? Or maybe a tiny aero advantage? Or just for style? * huge protruding bumpers: cheaper to hit them than it is to hit the body. And maybe it's more likely you can keep the vehicle in service without requiring repairs after minor incidents. * upswept rear bumper: necessary to mitigate issues with a departure angles, because a short-wheelbase is ideal for driving in tight locations. * hanging wiper mechanism: visibility, and it doesn't jam up with ice/snow as much. * side door slides forward instead of rearwards: because the door doesn't have to move outwards clear the rear fender, the track is straight and the mechanism simplified, so it's more durable, more accessible, and more ergonomic than other commercial vans which typically require a compound motion (sliding and extending outwards.) * and the easy one -- right hand drive: because mailboxes are on the side of the road.
  - kart23 6y ago
    The old LLVs also have a slanted back, its possible its just for design, I'm picturing it with a flat back and it just looks wrong, like a typical creepy white van. The slope gives it some character. Although you're right, there probably is a more nuanced reason.
  - pySSK 6y ago
    The current USPS trucks have a slanted back too but my google-fu yielded no results. The info graphic explains some of the other details: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/automobiles/the-mail-truck-is-a-classic-and-thats-a-problem-for-a-modern-post-office.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/automobiles/the-mail-truc... Biggest change is that driver should be able to walk inside it to fetch packages, hence the height and the odd 'forehead'.
- pySSK 6y ago
  That might not be the winning design – that looks like the Workhorse design, whereas the Osh Kosh looks more like Ford Transit van: https://www.hammerlanelegends.com/news/us-postal-service-to-award-63b-contract-for-new-mail-truck-this-year-see-the-finalists https://www.hammerlanelegends.com/news/us-postal-service-to-...
  - totoglazer 6y ago
    Definitely is, you can see those photos on the USPS website. https://media.usps.com/events/ngvd/ https://media.usps.com/events/ngvd/
- skrtskrt 6y ago
  It's beautiful in a utilitarian way
- chrisweekly 6y ago
  > "some will be electric". better than none, but really wish it said "all".
  - hundchenkatze 6y ago
    I think there are rural routes were battery capacity becomes an issue.
    - throwawayboise 6y ago
      A lot of rural routes are by contractors with their own vehicles. RHD Jeeps and Subarus are popular for them.
pasttense01 6y ago
Defense companies are known for high prices, so I think it would have been cheaper to go with the traditional auto manufacturers.
- cheschire 6y ago
  Traditional companies struggle to navigate the government acquisitions process, or acquisitions can be so different than traditional manufacturing and customer sales that it would require a completely separate company to manage the risks anyways. Instead you typically wind up with a contractor company that can work the system and they act as a middle tier that interfaces with the production company. In the case of vehicles you could imagine a low end contractor would negotiate production fleet vehicles. A mid range contractor might build custom versions using a stock base with a different cabin/storage. The large contractor can handle the full lifecycle including the protracted support and maintenance requirements.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    IIRC, the existing USPS vehicles are made with a lot of off-the-shelf parts from existing automakers and their suppliers. In a way, this really isn't that much different than traditional automakers -- a lot of them share parts, or even entire chassis designs. I would expect that these will probably also share a lot of parts from other existing vehicles. The difference is that a government contractor has expertise in packaging everything to meet a single customer's needs. Traditional automakers don't really do this -- they build to their own spec.
  - antattack 6y ago
    Chevy has no issues selling their cars directly to government agencies and Ford to Police. So I think that theory is debunked. More likely reason is politics.
    - cheschire 6y ago
      GM's own website about government sales references things I specifically said, so I'm unsure what you're referring to. "Our team can work with you to develop your bid or connect you with the appropriate dealer to fulfill your needs." https://www.gmfleet.com/government-fleets https://www.gmfleet.com/government-fleets
sneak 6y ago
> The NGDVs that Oshkosh will build will include both battery-electric vehicles and low-emission internal-combustion-engine vehicles, both of which will be able to be retrofitted to keep up with the latest EV tech. They will also have air conditioning and airbags—both of which the current trucks lack—as well as heat, a 360-degree camera, a front and rear collision avoidance system, and automated emergency braking. Lots of surprises in a few sentences. I'm glad to hear that some are intended to be EVs. I wonder what the final percentage will be, or if this is just a bullet point to check off.
- zdragnar 6y ago
  I imagine that a number of routes- perhaps especially in the countryside- may not be suitable for electric vehicles yet. Add the burden of heat or AC on top of the vehicle's weight (plus packages) and it may be difficult to complete without recharging. Since they are planning to be capable of retrofitting them, I wouldnt be surprised if they are planning on holding out a bit to see if battery and charging tech improves or standardizes further before investing heavily. All of that said, I would be very surprised if they didn't electrify the entire fleet before 2030. The cost savings in maintenance alone would probably justify it even without environmental consideration.
  - cobookman 6y ago
    That and certain states will force the transition. California being one of them. After 2035 the USPS wont be able to register a new diesel van.
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  > I'm glad to hear that some are intended to be EVs. Sure, it's good for the planet, but what spaceship sounding craft will I have the pleasure of hearing every afternoon as it blasts full throttle every 30 yards between suburban mailboxes?
  - tryonenow 6y ago
    I doubt it's anywhere near as loud or jarring as the current USPS trucks.
shitlord 6y ago
UPS, Fedex, Amazon, and the USPS all perform last mile delivery for envelopes and packages (albeit, some of these envelopes are padded). Will these delivery services ever converge on a single design for their vehicles?
- wahern 6y ago
  UPS, Fedex, and USPS have very different market niches. UPS focuses on volume, mid-market package delivery, Fedex on high-margin, next-day service, and USPS gets the dregs, including a tremendous amount of letters, not to mention junk mail. And their delivery patterns are quite different, not just the type of items delivered. I would imagine the ideal van is quite different, particularly as between UPS and USPS. FedEx and Amazon probably enjoy the most flexibility, partly because they both heavily utilize contractors for last-mile delivery. To avoid unionization FedEx has deliberately made some interesting decisions about which markets they were going to pursue and which they would cede to UPS. Amazon seems to be taking a page out of FedEx's book. In either case I imagine fleet uniformity is more difficult to achieve logistically and financially without full vertical integration of that component, and not as important when your independent contractors are absorbing much of the efficiency losses. UPS and USPS have more incentive to maximize vehicle efficiency because they directly internalize all the costs.
  - mjevans 6y ago
    Before the USPS cuts Priority Mail had an interesting niche. I could pay just a tiny premium, and the packages I shipped __WOULD__ get there in 2-3 days, even cross country. That and being delivered by someone that handled the package gently, were the premium services they offered. That trash-compactor-output who ran the USPS into the ground about a year ago ruined it though, and I really hope it gets fixed up properly.
    - hinkley 6y ago
      I've had real problems with UPS off and on over the years. There was a time when Amazon.com would let you chose carrier, and it was a real problem for me when they took that away and gave the contract to UPS. An extra $3 for not having to interrupt my day to get my packages, or ever have to argue with someone that the driver repeatedly putting a not home sticker on my door WHILE I WAS HOME? Shut up and take my money.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ardit33 6y ago
Kinda ugly.... looks like a 70s, or 80s movie set prop about how the future would look like. the nose looks bizarre...
- jeffrallen 6y ago
  Playmobil is gonna sue them...
- hinkley 6y ago
  If I were trying to dismantle the USPS by destroying morale and public goodwill, this is the vehicle I'd pick. Then I'd paint it an ugly color.
jeffrallen 6y ago
Meanwhile, in Switzerland, the Post somehow makes do with electric Renault Kangoos. I suppose when you do not have a forever war machine to feed, you can buy your post trucks from car companies...
- sbierwagen 6y ago
  The US has roughly 320 million more people than Switzerland. You can afford to have a domestic arms industry when you're bigger.
  - sofixa 6y ago
    And post delivery is hyper localised, so population doesn't change things much. Smaller countries than Switzerland have domestic arms industries, but that doesn't mean they use military-grade trucks from them for postal services.
    - jjeaff 6y ago
      The US is very spread out in a lot of places and geographically diverse. Many local routes cover a very large area. Currently, these Grumman vehicles only make up 75% of the fleet. They also use vans, some electrics and in some areas they need 4x4 trucks and even boats. Considering the extreme punishment these vehicles take, i think the investment is probably worth it. I remember reading about how much money they spent on these Grumman vehicles decades ago and being appalled. But here we are 20 years later and they are still using those same trucks. The USPS is an order of magnitude larger than the swiss postal service. At some point it usually becomes just as cost effective to order a fleet of custom vehicles rather than off the shelf ones.
      - hinkley 6y ago
        Zurich is the largest city in Switzerland, the Internet tells me. It has a population of 400,000, which is slightly less than the total current employees of the USPS. We spend all day here talking about scalability, but then we start talking about public policy and people get amnesia.
L_226 6y ago
Lobbying in action [0] with a supposed $105k from Oshkosh in 2021. [0] - https://twitter.com/QuiverQuant/status/1364341745199308802 https://twitter.com/QuiverQuant/status/1364341745199308802
- snypher 6y ago
  It's amazing that a ~$500M contract could be 'lubricated' with $100k. A similar ratio to Tesla paying you $10 to buy their car.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    I might choose a Tesla for you to buy were I given $10. That's the difference. The person receiving the money is not the same one who actually has to pay for the product.
koolk3ychain 6y ago
Darn, this stock would've been a great buy in Nov and I watched a youtube video from an automotive channel in January that went into quite a bit of depth regarding the post office vehicle trials and their opinion that Oshkosh would get the contract! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5FGyq12ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5FGyq12ds
antattack 6y ago
I cannot believe that one of USPS requirements for next delivery vehicle is to NOT to be a full EV platform!
bdowling 6y ago
> 360-degree camera So, a government surveillance network will make a sweep of every neighborhood in the U.S. six days a week?
- bdowling 6y ago
  To put this in context, every post office in the U.S. is outfitted with a dozen or more cameras that record the faces and movements of everyone who enters. Those images are routinely shared with FBI and NSA, which use them for law enforcement investigations and security purposes. Taking that kind of surveillance onto the streets should be controversial. Or are post office vehicles already outfitted with cameras and I just don't know about it?
  - jfim 6y ago
    > Or are post office vehicles already outfitted with cameras and I just don't know about it? There have been a few LLVs that have been seen with nctech mapping units. [0] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/jlq18s/usps_vehicle_spotted_with_lidar/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/jlq18s/usp...
Solar19 6y ago
Interesting choice. They desperately need a new sled. When she's not misdelivering my packages to other people, I feel terrible for my USPS mail carrier during the summer months. Those Grumman POS mail vehicles have no air conditioning. Being from Arizona, I didn't even know that was a thing, an actual configuration you could choose for a vehicle made after the Vietnam War. I think she plugs in a fan. I hope they get some kind of hardship pay when it's 95+ degrees out. But... I have mixed feelings given their coercive monopoly status. It's actually illegal to offer mail delivery in the US. The USPS even raided corporate mailrooms in New York in the 2000s in an attempt to enforce the letter of the law re: urgent mail. The exception to their mail monopoly is urgent communication, which is why FedEx and UPS are able to offer overnight and 2/3-day express delivery, but not regular letter mail. That's the one category that the USPS doesn't have a monopoly on. So the USPS actually tried to determine – to judge itself – whether the stuff these companies were sending via FedEx and other competitors was in fact urgent. They opened people's overnight envelopes to try to evaluate the true urgency level manifested within, as if they could even begin to judge or assess that characteristic of other people's communications... Thankfully they sparked a big backlash and haven't pulled a stunt like that since. There's nothing about mail or delivering stuff or logistics more broadly that would seem to require government involvement. There's nothing particular about government that makes it uniquely well suited to delivering mail. This should've been privatized from the very beginning. Britain privatized the Royal Mail, and there are lots of other examples of privatized mail carriers. Sometimes people object to the anticipated cost of mailing a letter to maybe a remote town, on the assumption that it would cost a lot more than the flat artificial stamp price today, but I don't understand the objection. If the natural or actual cost of something is X, why would anyone assert that they should be able to pay less than X? Anyway, they took far too long to choose a new vehicle, and they'll probably overpay. A private company would be more responsible and disciplined. It reminds me of Lysander Spooner's American Letter Mail Company. He decided to try to compete with the USPS, and charged lower prices. They shut him down by force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company It would be so fun to start a mail carrier in his honor. There are so many opportunities for innovation and creativity in mail and package delivery, and the vehicles could double as ice cream trucks on weekends.
- 6y ago
tingley 6y ago
Good read from last year about how trucks from the current LLV fleet (which at this point are very old) keep catching on fire: https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3ezx4/post-office-delivery-trucks-keep-catching-on-fire https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3ezx4/post-office-delivery-...
temp667 6y ago
Did they copy the workhorse design? Or is the link wrong? So weird.

64 points by jonbaer 6y ago

Here’s a link with some renders of what the trucks are planned to look like: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35604138/usps-oshkosh-defense-new-mail-trucks/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35604138/usps-oshkosh-def...

jpalomaki 6y ago
I wonder if the designers watched "Postman Pat" [1] as kids. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postman_Pat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postman_Pat
tropdrop 6y ago
I'm oddly delighted at the prospect of seeing new mail delivery vehicles creep around a corner, even if the design seems a little ... odd (to me).
oh_sigh 6y ago
Big beautiful windshields to see the sky with, but there has to be some way to get rid of the A pillars on these vehicles. So many accidents are caused by vehicles turning left/right into pedestrians crossing the street because they are blocked by these pillars. I guess holograms work but an engineering solution where they could somehow be eliminated would be better.
- EE84M3i 6y ago
  holograms? What do you mean?
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    Sorry, I guess I mean something like AR that lets you see through the pillars. I was thinking a hologram because if it is just a straight projection that other people can see, they might constantly think you're going to run over a pedestrian that has already safely passed from the drivers point of view.
heipei 6y ago
Can someone walk through the vehicle odd detail by odd detail and explain every design decision? For me this is fascinating because there are probably many small items that have a practical benefit that I don't even see on the first glance. One question though: Why is the back slanted? Why doesn't it go straight down? Wouldn't that be preferable when it's raining, for example?
- kube-system 6y ago
  Here are my educated non-expert guesses: * low front end, large amount of glass: aids in visibility when maneuvering in tight locations. * side mirrors are hung from the top: again, aiding visibility. You need to look at the road's surface more than you need to look at the sky. * two piece side window: it can pass packages while also protecting the driver from the weather * slanted rear: the person closing the door has a couple more inches to get a steady footing while reaching over their head to close the tall door? Or maybe a tiny aero advantage? Or just for style? * huge protruding bumpers: cheaper to hit them than it is to hit the body. And maybe it's more likely you can keep the vehicle in service without requiring repairs after minor incidents. * upswept rear bumper: necessary to mitigate issues with a departure angles, because a short-wheelbase is ideal for driving in tight locations. * hanging wiper mechanism: visibility, and it doesn't jam up with ice/snow as much. * side door slides forward instead of rearwards: because the door doesn't have to move outwards clear the rear fender, the track is straight and the mechanism simplified, so it's more durable, more accessible, and more ergonomic than other commercial vans which typically require a compound motion (sliding and extending outwards.) * and the easy one -- right hand drive: because mailboxes are on the side of the road.
- kart23 6y ago
  The old LLVs also have a slanted back, its possible its just for design, I'm picturing it with a flat back and it just looks wrong, like a typical creepy white van. The slope gives it some character. Although you're right, there probably is a more nuanced reason.
- pySSK 6y ago
  The current USPS trucks have a slanted back too but my google-fu yielded no results. The info graphic explains some of the other details: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/automobiles/the-mail-truck-is-a-classic-and-thats-a-problem-for-a-modern-post-office.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/automobiles/the-mail-truc... Biggest change is that driver should be able to walk inside it to fetch packages, hence the height and the odd 'forehead'.
pySSK 6y ago
That might not be the winning design – that looks like the Workhorse design, whereas the Osh Kosh looks more like Ford Transit van: https://www.hammerlanelegends.com/news/us-postal-service-to-award-63b-contract-for-new-mail-truck-this-year-see-the-finalists https://www.hammerlanelegends.com/news/us-postal-service-to-...
- totoglazer 6y ago
  Definitely is, you can see those photos on the USPS website. https://media.usps.com/events/ngvd/ https://media.usps.com/events/ngvd/
skrtskrt 6y ago
It's beautiful in a utilitarian way
chrisweekly 6y ago
> "some will be electric". better than none, but really wish it said "all".
- hundchenkatze 6y ago
  I think there are rural routes were battery capacity becomes an issue.
  - throwawayboise 6y ago
    A lot of rural routes are by contractors with their own vehicles. RHD Jeeps and Subarus are popular for them.

pasttense01 6y ago

Defense companies are known for high prices, so I think it would have been cheaper to go with the traditional auto manufacturers.

cheschire 6y ago
Traditional companies struggle to navigate the government acquisitions process, or acquisitions can be so different than traditional manufacturing and customer sales that it would require a completely separate company to manage the risks anyways. Instead you typically wind up with a contractor company that can work the system and they act as a middle tier that interfaces with the production company. In the case of vehicles you could imagine a low end contractor would negotiate production fleet vehicles. A mid range contractor might build custom versions using a stock base with a different cabin/storage. The large contractor can handle the full lifecycle including the protracted support and maintenance requirements.
- kube-system 6y ago
  IIRC, the existing USPS vehicles are made with a lot of off-the-shelf parts from existing automakers and their suppliers. In a way, this really isn't that much different than traditional automakers -- a lot of them share parts, or even entire chassis designs. I would expect that these will probably also share a lot of parts from other existing vehicles. The difference is that a government contractor has expertise in packaging everything to meet a single customer's needs. Traditional automakers don't really do this -- they build to their own spec.
- antattack 6y ago
  Chevy has no issues selling their cars directly to government agencies and Ford to Police. So I think that theory is debunked. More likely reason is politics.
  - cheschire 6y ago
    GM's own website about government sales references things I specifically said, so I'm unsure what you're referring to. "Our team can work with you to develop your bid or connect you with the appropriate dealer to fulfill your needs." https://www.gmfleet.com/government-fleets https://www.gmfleet.com/government-fleets

sneak 6y ago

> The NGDVs that Oshkosh will build will include both battery-electric vehicles and low-emission internal-combustion-engine vehicles, both of which will be able to be retrofitted to keep up with the latest EV tech. They will also have air conditioning and airbags—both of which the current trucks lack—as well as heat, a 360-degree camera, a front and rear collision avoidance system, and automated emergency braking. Lots of surprises in a few sentences. I'm glad to hear that some are intended to be EVs. I wonder what the final percentage will be, or if this is just a bullet point to check off.

zdragnar 6y ago
I imagine that a number of routes- perhaps especially in the countryside- may not be suitable for electric vehicles yet. Add the burden of heat or AC on top of the vehicle's weight (plus packages) and it may be difficult to complete without recharging. Since they are planning to be capable of retrofitting them, I wouldnt be surprised if they are planning on holding out a bit to see if battery and charging tech improves or standardizes further before investing heavily. All of that said, I would be very surprised if they didn't electrify the entire fleet before 2030. The cost savings in maintenance alone would probably justify it even without environmental consideration.
- cobookman 6y ago
  That and certain states will force the transition. California being one of them. After 2035 the USPS wont be able to register a new diesel van.
bonestamp2 6y ago
> I'm glad to hear that some are intended to be EVs. Sure, it's good for the planet, but what spaceship sounding craft will I have the pleasure of hearing every afternoon as it blasts full throttle every 30 yards between suburban mailboxes?
- tryonenow 6y ago
  I doubt it's anywhere near as loud or jarring as the current USPS trucks.

shitlord 6y ago

UPS, Fedex, Amazon, and the USPS all perform last mile delivery for envelopes and packages (albeit, some of these envelopes are padded). Will these delivery services ever converge on a single design for their vehicles?

wahern 6y ago
UPS, Fedex, and USPS have very different market niches. UPS focuses on volume, mid-market package delivery, Fedex on high-margin, next-day service, and USPS gets the dregs, including a tremendous amount of letters, not to mention junk mail. And their delivery patterns are quite different, not just the type of items delivered. I would imagine the ideal van is quite different, particularly as between UPS and USPS. FedEx and Amazon probably enjoy the most flexibility, partly because they both heavily utilize contractors for last-mile delivery. To avoid unionization FedEx has deliberately made some interesting decisions about which markets they were going to pursue and which they would cede to UPS. Amazon seems to be taking a page out of FedEx's book. In either case I imagine fleet uniformity is more difficult to achieve logistically and financially without full vertical integration of that component, and not as important when your independent contractors are absorbing much of the efficiency losses. UPS and USPS have more incentive to maximize vehicle efficiency because they directly internalize all the costs.
- mjevans 6y ago
  Before the USPS cuts Priority Mail had an interesting niche. I could pay just a tiny premium, and the packages I shipped __WOULD__ get there in 2-3 days, even cross country. That and being delivered by someone that handled the package gently, were the premium services they offered. That trash-compactor-output who ran the USPS into the ground about a year ago ruined it though, and I really hope it gets fixed up properly.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    I've had real problems with UPS off and on over the years. There was a time when Amazon.com would let you chose carrier, and it was a real problem for me when they took that away and gave the contract to UPS. An extra $3 for not having to interrupt my day to get my packages, or ever have to argue with someone that the driver repeatedly putting a not home sticker on my door WHILE I WAS HOME? Shut up and take my money.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ardit33 6y ago

Kinda ugly.... looks like a 70s, or 80s movie set prop about how the future would look like. the nose looks bizarre...

jeffrallen 6y ago
Playmobil is gonna sue them...
hinkley 6y ago
If I were trying to dismantle the USPS by destroying morale and public goodwill, this is the vehicle I'd pick. Then I'd paint it an ugly color.

jeffrallen 6y ago

Meanwhile, in Switzerland, the Post somehow makes do with electric Renault Kangoos. I suppose when you do not have a forever war machine to feed, you can buy your post trucks from car companies...

sbierwagen 6y ago
The US has roughly 320 million more people than Switzerland. You can afford to have a domestic arms industry when you're bigger.
- sofixa 6y ago
  And post delivery is hyper localised, so population doesn't change things much. Smaller countries than Switzerland have domestic arms industries, but that doesn't mean they use military-grade trucks from them for postal services.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    The US is very spread out in a lot of places and geographically diverse. Many local routes cover a very large area. Currently, these Grumman vehicles only make up 75% of the fleet. They also use vans, some electrics and in some areas they need 4x4 trucks and even boats. Considering the extreme punishment these vehicles take, i think the investment is probably worth it. I remember reading about how much money they spent on these Grumman vehicles decades ago and being appalled. But here we are 20 years later and they are still using those same trucks. The USPS is an order of magnitude larger than the swiss postal service. At some point it usually becomes just as cost effective to order a fleet of custom vehicles rather than off the shelf ones.
    - hinkley 6y ago
      Zurich is the largest city in Switzerland, the Internet tells me. It has a population of 400,000, which is slightly less than the total current employees of the USPS. We spend all day here talking about scalability, but then we start talking about public policy and people get amnesia.

L_226 6y ago

Lobbying in action [0] with a supposed $105k from Oshkosh in 2021. [0] - https://twitter.com/QuiverQuant/status/1364341745199308802 https://twitter.com/QuiverQuant/status/1364341745199308802

snypher 6y ago
It's amazing that a ~$500M contract could be 'lubricated' with $100k. A similar ratio to Tesla paying you $10 to buy their car.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  I might choose a Tesla for you to buy were I given $10. That's the difference. The person receiving the money is not the same one who actually has to pay for the product.

koolk3ychain 6y ago

Darn, this stock would've been a great buy in Nov and I watched a youtube video from an automotive channel in January that went into quite a bit of depth regarding the post office vehicle trials and their opinion that Oshkosh would get the contract! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5FGyq12ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5FGyq12ds

antattack 6y ago

I cannot believe that one of USPS requirements for next delivery vehicle is to NOT to be a full EV platform!

bdowling 6y ago

> 360-degree camera So, a government surveillance network will make a sweep of every neighborhood in the U.S. six days a week?

bdowling 6y ago
To put this in context, every post office in the U.S. is outfitted with a dozen or more cameras that record the faces and movements of everyone who enters. Those images are routinely shared with FBI and NSA, which use them for law enforcement investigations and security purposes. Taking that kind of surveillance onto the streets should be controversial. Or are post office vehicles already outfitted with cameras and I just don't know about it?
- jfim 6y ago
  > Or are post office vehicles already outfitted with cameras and I just don't know about it? There have been a few LLVs that have been seen with nctech mapping units. [0] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/jlq18s/usps_vehicle_spotted_with_lidar/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/jlq18s/usp...

Solar19 6y ago

Interesting choice. They desperately need a new sled. When she's not misdelivering my packages to other people, I feel terrible for my USPS mail carrier during the summer months. Those Grumman POS mail vehicles have no air conditioning. Being from Arizona, I didn't even know that was a thing, an actual configuration you could choose for a vehicle made after the Vietnam War. I think she plugs in a fan. I hope they get some kind of hardship pay when it's 95+ degrees out. But... I have mixed feelings given their coercive monopoly status. It's actually illegal to offer mail delivery in the US. The USPS even raided corporate mailrooms in New York in the 2000s in an attempt to enforce the letter of the law re: urgent mail. The exception to their mail monopoly is urgent communication, which is why FedEx and UPS are able to offer overnight and 2/3-day express delivery, but not regular letter mail. That's the one category that the USPS doesn't have a monopoly on. So the USPS actually tried to determine – to judge itself – whether the stuff these companies were sending via FedEx and other competitors was in fact urgent. They opened people's overnight envelopes to try to evaluate the true urgency level manifested within, as if they could even begin to judge or assess that characteristic of other people's communications... Thankfully they sparked a big backlash and haven't pulled a stunt like that since. There's nothing about mail or delivering stuff or logistics more broadly that would seem to require government involvement. There's nothing particular about government that makes it uniquely well suited to delivering mail. This should've been privatized from the very beginning. Britain privatized the Royal Mail, and there are lots of other examples of privatized mail carriers. Sometimes people object to the anticipated cost of mailing a letter to maybe a remote town, on the assumption that it would cost a lot more than the flat artificial stamp price today, but I don't understand the objection. If the natural or actual cost of something is X, why would anyone assert that they should be able to pay less than X? Anyway, they took far too long to choose a new vehicle, and they'll probably overpay. A private company would be more responsible and disciplined. It reminds me of Lysander Spooner's American Letter Mail Company. He decided to try to compete with the USPS, and charged lower prices. They shut him down by force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company It would be so fun to start a mail carrier in his honor. There are so many opportunities for innovation and creativity in mail and package delivery, and the vehicles could double as ice cream trucks on weekends.

6y ago

tingley 6y ago

Good read from last year about how trucks from the current LLV fleet (which at this point are very old) keep catching on fire: https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3ezx4/post-office-delivery-trucks-keep-catching-on-fire https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3ezx4/post-office-delivery-...

temp667 6y ago

Did they copy the workhorse design? Or is the link wrong? So weird.