4 ms·

Seems to me like further polarization. Only those that can afford the elite colleges (or be “smart” enough to get in) will be educated, while the rest will skip

Seems to me like further polarization. Only those that can afford the elite colleges (or be “smart” enough to get in) will be educated, while the rest will skip any personal development and just go right into the market. Educating people in the skills necessary for being good citizens doesn’t cost that much. Most of the books required are free. Yet somehow the common response to “college is expensive” is “get rid of it” instead of “make it less expensive.”

wiz21c 6y ago
> the skills necessary for being good citizens this one hundred thousand times.
econnors 6y ago
> Only those that can afford the elite colleges (or be “smart” enough to get in) will be educated This is how it is today. The only difference is people are paying $40k+ x 4years to "be educated" but they're not actually learning valuable skills. > Yet somehow the common response to “college is expensive” is “get rid of it” instead of “make it less expensive.” We've already tried making it less expensive. Students can get low interest rate loans to attend wherever they'd like – unfortunately that just leads to more colleges, more types of useless degrees, and increased tuition.
- keiferski 6y ago
  Yet somehow the rest of the developed world manages to offer liberal arts degrees that don’t cost $50,000 a year. The trick is: don’t spend millions on football stadiums, don’t hire hundreds of administrators, and don’t offer student loans that are impossible to default on. It really isn’t that complicated, especially for the single wealthiest country in the history of human civilization.
  - CapmCrackaWaka 6y ago
    I work for a consulting company which helps these struggling colleges. It's a difficult discussion to have. When you tell them that they are spending way, way more than they need to on administration, they usually 'ahem' and 'guffaw', especially when the implication is that the people in the room with you are part of the problem.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  "We've already tried making it less expensive. Students can get low interest rate loans" What? Giving out easy loans doesn't make something cheaper, it makes something more expensive up to causing a bubble that will crash the rest of economy, like we did with housing in 2008.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
RestlessMind 6y ago
> Yet somehow the common response to “college is expensive” is “get rid of it” instead of “make it less expensive.” I don't know what country you are talking about but at least in the US, we have community colleges which are very cheap and can "educate people in the skills necessary for being good citizens". It is only the worthless degrees from private / for-profit colleges which are a problem.
- keiferski 6y ago
  I have taken classes at communities colleges. I’m sure many are good institutions, but my experience was that absolutely no one there cared about learning. It is very clearly treated as “second class.”
fallingknife 6y ago
Why can't the skills necessary for being good citizens be taught in HS like they were back when going to college was rare?
- keiferski 6y ago
  Because the world has grown more complex and more education is required. It isn’t 1955 anymore.
  - fallingknife 6y ago
    How is the world more complex? What else needs to be taught today?
    - kd0amg 6y ago
      And as a follow-up, what of that "else" is taught to a majority of university students?
  - imtringued 6y ago
    More education isn't needed. Specialized education tailoring to an individual's needs is what is lacking and somehow everyone decided college is that education, because companies refuse to fund training programs.
NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
You have the wrong idea because of the headline prices of elite schools. Yes, the prices are high. On the other hand, no-one who is admitted to (say) Harvard is going to be prevented from going by an inability to pay. These top schools are rich enough to fund need-based scholarships. (source: wife is a professor at an Ivy League school)
- michaelt 6y ago
  Nobody's "unable to pay" so long as there are government-backed undischargable loans on offer.
  - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
    Please look at some actual data, e.g. https://admissions.yale.edu/affordability-details https://admissions.yale.edu/affordability-details

wiz21c 6y ago

> the skills necessary for being good citizens this one hundred thousand times.

econnors 6y ago

> Only those that can afford the elite colleges (or be “smart” enough to get in) will be educated This is how it is today. The only difference is people are paying $40k+ x 4years to "be educated" but they're not actually learning valuable skills. > Yet somehow the common response to “college is expensive” is “get rid of it” instead of “make it less expensive.” We've already tried making it less expensive. Students can get low interest rate loans to attend wherever they'd like – unfortunately that just leads to more colleges, more types of useless degrees, and increased tuition.

keiferski 6y ago
Yet somehow the rest of the developed world manages to offer liberal arts degrees that don’t cost $50,000 a year. The trick is: don’t spend millions on football stadiums, don’t hire hundreds of administrators, and don’t offer student loans that are impossible to default on. It really isn’t that complicated, especially for the single wealthiest country in the history of human civilization.
- CapmCrackaWaka 6y ago
  I work for a consulting company which helps these struggling colleges. It's a difficult discussion to have. When you tell them that they are spending way, way more than they need to on administration, they usually 'ahem' and 'guffaw', especially when the implication is that the people in the room with you are part of the problem.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
"We've already tried making it less expensive. Students can get low interest rate loans" What? Giving out easy loans doesn't make something cheaper, it makes something more expensive up to causing a bubble that will crash the rest of economy, like we did with housing in 2008.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

RestlessMind 6y ago

> Yet somehow the common response to “college is expensive” is “get rid of it” instead of “make it less expensive.” I don't know what country you are talking about but at least in the US, we have community colleges which are very cheap and can "educate people in the skills necessary for being good citizens". It is only the worthless degrees from private / for-profit colleges which are a problem.

keiferski 6y ago
I have taken classes at communities colleges. I’m sure many are good institutions, but my experience was that absolutely no one there cared about learning. It is very clearly treated as “second class.”

fallingknife 6y ago

Why can't the skills necessary for being good citizens be taught in HS like they were back when going to college was rare?

keiferski 6y ago
Because the world has grown more complex and more education is required. It isn’t 1955 anymore.
- fallingknife 6y ago
  How is the world more complex? What else needs to be taught today?
  - kd0amg 6y ago
    And as a follow-up, what of that "else" is taught to a majority of university students?
- imtringued 6y ago
  More education isn't needed. Specialized education tailoring to an individual's needs is what is lacking and somehow everyone decided college is that education, because companies refuse to fund training programs.

NovemberWhiskey 6y ago

You have the wrong idea because of the headline prices of elite schools. Yes, the prices are high. On the other hand, no-one who is admitted to (say) Harvard is going to be prevented from going by an inability to pay. These top schools are rich enough to fund need-based scholarships. (source: wife is a professor at an Ivy League school)

michaelt 6y ago
Nobody's "unable to pay" so long as there are government-backed undischargable loans on offer.
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  Please look at some actual data, e.g. https://admissions.yale.edu/affordability-details https://admissions.yale.edu/affordability-details