4 ms·

> "Because it has a large numbers of applicants. It's offer and demand." I suspect that's because these students are really buying prestige and a classics degr

> "Because it has a large numbers of applicants. It's offer and demand." I suspect that's because these students are really buying prestige and a classics degree is the easiest option. > Something I've noticed and take this with a grain of salt as this is a sample=1 observation is that the better researchers (more publications, better funded labs) were generally also better teachers. This isn't a huge surprise to me since it's crazy competitive so the better funded labs are likely outliers in a bunch of ways (including social skills/teaching). Not all researchers teach much though and being good is more of a side-effect than a goal for Universities.

908B64B197 6y ago
> I suspect that's because these students are really buying prestige and a classics degree is the easiest option. Probably. But the value falls dramatically once you get to tier two schools, and becomes almost worthless for tier 3.
- fossuser 6y ago
  Which is exactly what I'd predict in a world where "Interest Surges in Top Colleges, While Struggling Ones Scrape for Applicants". When the thing being sold is prestige, lower tier colleges don't actually have the product that's in demand. So they can charge basically nothing since they're selling nothing of value. That's not viable as a business (unless they lie to students who don't know better and pretend that they're selling prestige they don't have, "a degree will improve your life"). A lot of lower tier colleges fit this kind of con, the for-profit ones are explicitly this. If they actually provided valuable education that'd be different, but they largely don't. I think Lambda School style ISAs are the way for all but the top tier colleges. It means they have to actually be good at education. Imagine the opportunity of actually being good at education and doing ISAs. It would mean your institution could do what Universities largely just pretend to do. You could make money from ISAs and aligned incentives/student success. You could also make money from companies as a recruiting agency if your students were actually guaranteed to be good. Your curriculum would be closely tied to what's needed and what's relevant. You don't even have to give up the classics if you don't want to, they can just exist along side the other stuff (as they should). You just don't pretend they're hard or economically viable on their own. Actual education is super powerful, it's just a diminutive part of what Universities have become and they're not very good at it.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    > I think Lambda School style ISAs are the way for all but the top tier colleges. It means they have to actually be good at education. Actually, the top schools would benefit from these the most. With close to 100% employment rates and better median salaries than anyone else. > Imagine the opportunity of actually being good at education and doing ISAs. It would mean your institution could do what Universities largely just pretend to do. You could make money from ISAs and aligned incentives/student success. You could also make money from companies as a recruiting agency if your students were actually guaranteed to be good. Your curriculum would be closely tied to what's needed and what's relevant. I wonder how much income stream is coming from underperforming programs at modern Universities. For some of them it must be substantial. And I'm also wondering if some of them also redirect the income toward more useful programs or research.
    - fossuser 6y ago
      Lambda School style ISAs cap the return at 30k. The top schools don't need ISAs because they're selling prestige they can charge a lot more for. Since they're so highly selective they can admit only students who will succeed anyway. Maybe over time that prestige will change, but I don't see that as near-term. I think it'd be better if they did ISAs, I just don't think they'll want to (or their ISAs will be worse for students than Lambda School's). Right now top schools can charge up front and it doesn't really matter what they provide.
timthorn 6y ago
> a classics degree is the easiest option I'm not sure I'd agree with that assertion.
- fossuser 6y ago
  You can substitute it for English, Communications, or Literature if you prefer.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    Elite colleges are weird. At state schools, usually the technical programs are the most rigorous. While elite colleges offer largely identical technical degrees, their most difficult or prestigious course might be something obscure like Philosophy, Politics & Economics. It's almost like a shibboleth: only those who actually went to the school will recognize the prestige.
    - imtringued 6y ago
      This is why managers/bosses prefer hiring people from the same university as them. Those graduates went through the same "hazing" they did.
violiner 6y ago
> a classics degree is the easiest option You have clearly never studied Ancient Greek.
- tsoukase 6y ago
  He has the false self-confidence with a language he has not get in contact with yet. A frequent bias of a programmer. In a sense, studying Ancient Greek in depth is impossible as many ideas are lost in the modern cultural decline.

908B64B197 6y ago

> I suspect that's because these students are really buying prestige and a classics degree is the easiest option. Probably. But the value falls dramatically once you get to tier two schools, and becomes almost worthless for tier 3.

fossuser 6y ago
Which is exactly what I'd predict in a world where "Interest Surges in Top Colleges, While Struggling Ones Scrape for Applicants". When the thing being sold is prestige, lower tier colleges don't actually have the product that's in demand. So they can charge basically nothing since they're selling nothing of value. That's not viable as a business (unless they lie to students who don't know better and pretend that they're selling prestige they don't have, "a degree will improve your life"). A lot of lower tier colleges fit this kind of con, the for-profit ones are explicitly this. If they actually provided valuable education that'd be different, but they largely don't. I think Lambda School style ISAs are the way for all but the top tier colleges. It means they have to actually be good at education. Imagine the opportunity of actually being good at education and doing ISAs. It would mean your institution could do what Universities largely just pretend to do. You could make money from ISAs and aligned incentives/student success. You could also make money from companies as a recruiting agency if your students were actually guaranteed to be good. Your curriculum would be closely tied to what's needed and what's relevant. You don't even have to give up the classics if you don't want to, they can just exist along side the other stuff (as they should). You just don't pretend they're hard or economically viable on their own. Actual education is super powerful, it's just a diminutive part of what Universities have become and they're not very good at it.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  > I think Lambda School style ISAs are the way for all but the top tier colleges. It means they have to actually be good at education. Actually, the top schools would benefit from these the most. With close to 100% employment rates and better median salaries than anyone else. > Imagine the opportunity of actually being good at education and doing ISAs. It would mean your institution could do what Universities largely just pretend to do. You could make money from ISAs and aligned incentives/student success. You could also make money from companies as a recruiting agency if your students were actually guaranteed to be good. Your curriculum would be closely tied to what's needed and what's relevant. I wonder how much income stream is coming from underperforming programs at modern Universities. For some of them it must be substantial. And I'm also wondering if some of them also redirect the income toward more useful programs or research.
  - fossuser 6y ago
    Lambda School style ISAs cap the return at 30k. The top schools don't need ISAs because they're selling prestige they can charge a lot more for. Since they're so highly selective they can admit only students who will succeed anyway. Maybe over time that prestige will change, but I don't see that as near-term. I think it'd be better if they did ISAs, I just don't think they'll want to (or their ISAs will be worse for students than Lambda School's). Right now top schools can charge up front and it doesn't really matter what they provide.

timthorn 6y ago

> a classics degree is the easiest option I'm not sure I'd agree with that assertion.

fossuser 6y ago
You can substitute it for English, Communications, or Literature if you prefer.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  Elite colleges are weird. At state schools, usually the technical programs are the most rigorous. While elite colleges offer largely identical technical degrees, their most difficult or prestigious course might be something obscure like Philosophy, Politics & Economics. It's almost like a shibboleth: only those who actually went to the school will recognize the prestige.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    This is why managers/bosses prefer hiring people from the same university as them. Those graduates went through the same "hazing" they did.

violiner 6y ago

> a classics degree is the easiest option You have clearly never studied Ancient Greek.

tsoukase 6y ago
He has the false self-confidence with a language he has not get in contact with yet. A frequent bias of a programmer. In a sense, studying Ancient Greek in depth is impossible as many ideas are lost in the modern cultural decline.