4 ms·

Requiring a 4 year degree for a job even if the major isn’t relevant doesn’t seem wrong to me. Maybe data entry is taking it too far? Maybe the data was really

Requiring a 4 year degree for a job even if the major isn’t relevant doesn’t seem wrong to me. Maybe data entry is taking it too far? Maybe the data was really sensitive and complicated.

Jtsummers 6y ago
It causes inflation of job requirements, delays entry into careers, produces vast amounts of unnecessary debt and spending, promotes substandard graduate programs so people can be differentiated from the other history majors, and all because a high school diploma is considered worthless by most companies for their non-technical entry level positions.
- minitoar 6y ago
  Maybe the value of differentiating potential employees is worth it overall.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    Maybe for the businesses, I'm skeptical that this is a positive for society and the economy overall.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    Size of their feet differentiates them too. How is it actually usefull?
    - minitoar 6y ago
      If that’s a useful differentiator then people would probably use it. Maybe you’re trying to imply that whether or not a candidate has a certain credential is not useful as a differentiator?
      - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        Would they? We don't use IQ or neuroticism, are they useless? We have solid proof that attractive sociopaths get ahead more, is that usefull? Maybe we should not pretend that hiring is this optimally tuned machine that knows exactly whats needed
    - Jtsummers 6y ago
      To expand on your point, it's the arbitrary and superfluous nature of this requirement. If I were hiring pilots, to go with the physical quality example, I would discriminate on height. You can be too short to operate an aircraft, and you can be too tall or too big to fit in some aircraft (I knew a helicopter pilot who only flew helicopters because he couldn't, physically, fit in fighter aircraft which had been his dream job). But if I were running an airline, I wouldn't use this as a discriminator on all my employees, only the ones that it made sense for. Degrees ought to be treated similarly in white collar jobs.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
If the knowledge is not required for the job, what is the degree for? Is it a concealed/outsourced IQ test? Is it a concealed illegal minimum age requirement? Isit collective insanity? I dare you to provide an explanation that is not illegal and/or deranged.
- VLM 6y ago
  I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'd embrace and extend your remarks with two other illegal or semi-illegal reasons: One is employees who are deeply in debt can be more easily abused than, for example, wealthy skilled tradesmen. You can do all kinds of things to woman with a student loan debt larger than a mortgage and she'll have to put up with it, whereas a journeyman electrician, in addition to being paid more, would simply move to a competing jobsite the next day. The other reason is colleges highly promote diversity in freshmen accepted class statistics but always cover up graduating diploma holder statistics. You can kind of legally/illegally guarantee you hire a white woman or certainly tilt the odds against PoC, by demanding the office receptionist hold a bachelors degree in something "to maintain office culture because everyone else in the office went to college and we wouldn't want her to feel left out". Presumably those type of places where PoC need not apply, will soon require their janitors to have a four year degree in some sort of liberal art...
- agar 6y ago
  Flipping this around, put yourself in this situation: you have five open positions, and expect 300 applicants. You have approximately 1 hour per day to interview, and need to fill the positions in 10-15 business days. You would like to find people with the following characteristics: They can follow complex instructions with minimal oversight, they finish what they start, they have good social skills to work with colleagues and occasional outside parties, they are fully literate (i.e., spell well, read quickly, understand context), and can be trained and managed. You're handed 300 resumes. How do you select the top 10-15 that are most likely to satisfy the requirements? What would be your initial filtering criteria?
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    Past work experience, letters of reference, relevant training program/certification. This is assuming there is not a degree program that can be seen as preparatory for the position. A 4-year degree is a useless indicator when it's irrelevant to the workload. It tells you the person was willing to spend $40-80k (in much of the US) for a piece of paper that didn't prepare them for the job you're hiring them for.

Requiring a 4 year degree for a job even if the major isn’t relevant doesn’t seem wrong to me. Maybe data entry is taking it too far? Maybe the data was really sensitive and complicated.

Jtsummers 6y ago

It causes inflation of job requirements, delays entry into careers, produces vast amounts of unnecessary debt and spending, promotes substandard graduate programs so people can be differentiated from the other history majors, and all because a high school diploma is considered worthless by most companies for their non-technical entry level positions.

minitoar 6y ago
Maybe the value of differentiating potential employees is worth it overall.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  Maybe for the businesses, I'm skeptical that this is a positive for society and the economy overall.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  Size of their feet differentiates them too. How is it actually usefull?
  - minitoar 6y ago
    If that’s a useful differentiator then people would probably use it. Maybe you’re trying to imply that whether or not a candidate has a certain credential is not useful as a differentiator?
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      Would they? We don't use IQ or neuroticism, are they useless? We have solid proof that attractive sociopaths get ahead more, is that usefull? Maybe we should not pretend that hiring is this optimally tuned machine that knows exactly whats needed
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    To expand on your point, it's the arbitrary and superfluous nature of this requirement. If I were hiring pilots, to go with the physical quality example, I would discriminate on height. You can be too short to operate an aircraft, and you can be too tall or too big to fit in some aircraft (I knew a helicopter pilot who only flew helicopters because he couldn't, physically, fit in fighter aircraft which had been his dream job). But if I were running an airline, I wouldn't use this as a discriminator on all my employees, only the ones that it made sense for. Degrees ought to be treated similarly in white collar jobs.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

If the knowledge is not required for the job, what is the degree for? Is it a concealed/outsourced IQ test? Is it a concealed illegal minimum age requirement? Isit collective insanity? I dare you to provide an explanation that is not illegal and/or deranged.

VLM 6y ago
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'd embrace and extend your remarks with two other illegal or semi-illegal reasons: One is employees who are deeply in debt can be more easily abused than, for example, wealthy skilled tradesmen. You can do all kinds of things to woman with a student loan debt larger than a mortgage and she'll have to put up with it, whereas a journeyman electrician, in addition to being paid more, would simply move to a competing jobsite the next day. The other reason is colleges highly promote diversity in freshmen accepted class statistics but always cover up graduating diploma holder statistics. You can kind of legally/illegally guarantee you hire a white woman or certainly tilt the odds against PoC, by demanding the office receptionist hold a bachelors degree in something "to maintain office culture because everyone else in the office went to college and we wouldn't want her to feel left out". Presumably those type of places where PoC need not apply, will soon require their janitors to have a four year degree in some sort of liberal art...
agar 6y ago
Flipping this around, put yourself in this situation: you have five open positions, and expect 300 applicants. You have approximately 1 hour per day to interview, and need to fill the positions in 10-15 business days. You would like to find people with the following characteristics: They can follow complex instructions with minimal oversight, they finish what they start, they have good social skills to work with colleagues and occasional outside parties, they are fully literate (i.e., spell well, read quickly, understand context), and can be trained and managed. You're handed 300 resumes. How do you select the top 10-15 that are most likely to satisfy the requirements? What would be your initial filtering criteria?
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  Past work experience, letters of reference, relevant training program/certification. This is assuming there is not a degree program that can be seen as preparatory for the position. A 4-year degree is a useless indicator when it's irrelevant to the workload. It tells you the person was willing to spend $40-80k (in much of the US) for a piece of paper that didn't prepare them for the job you're hiring them for.