8 ms·

This is something I realized recently. I am in India and the number of small manufacturers who are making electric people movers is very high. These are not hi

This is something I realized recently. I am in India and the number of small manufacturers who are making electric people movers is very high. These are not high speed vehicles, they are below 40 KM/h speed as I see them, but the big shift is that hundreds of small companies around India are producing and maintaining small electric vehicles, mostly locally. The drivers charge them at home at night or during longer lunch breaks. Surely one can say India has had these many companies making the foot Richshaw or body parts or other commercial ICE vehicles. But there is a big difference that lighter people moving EVs bring to the roads or intra-city transport. They are silent, do not pollute on the roads and most importantly, I think these companies will continue to integrate better motors and parts to build many people/goods moving EVs in the next decade. What I conclude is that EV revolution is going to be way more democratized than we realize.

brainless 6y ago
The critical part that is playing its role as I understand is that DC motors and batteries are plenty available from decent manufacturers. Very soon, as I see articles around the web, there will be much better quality motors and batteries available across the country from brands say Yamaha or LG. Making the shell of a vehicle is not hard. ICEs have a ridiculously higher parts count compared to EVs. And not all EVs have to go above 60 KM/h.
- medstrom 6y ago
  What's ICE?
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    Internal combustion engine
    - MayeulC 6y ago
      See also these commonly used abbreviations: Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) Battery-Electric Vehicle (BEV)
      - Gibbon1 6y ago
        Good rule I learned from the guy that taught writing for engineers, no matter what spell out acronyms the first time you use them.
  - sunstone 6y ago
    Stink mobiles.
- llampx 6y ago
  The only thing stopping this democratization would be crash-worthiness. While this is more true for Western markets currently, regulations will come to India as well. However many Indians ride in the 3-wheeled death-traps called auto-rickshaws so I don't know... I've personally been in one which almost rolled over when the driver made a sharp turn at (relatively) high speed.
  - pyrale 6y ago
    > The only thing stopping this democratization would be crash-worthiness. There is no trouble making small crash-worthy vehicles if the standard vehicle is no more than a few hundred kilos and is limited to 30-50 km/h. On the other hand, the current trend for western vehicles has been to make vehicles that are more and more dangerous for their environment, but which are themselves well-protected. So there is a good argument that regulation could move towards western standards by banning small cars, but banning larger cars could also produce good safety norms.
    - carlmr 6y ago
      >banning larger cars could also produce good safety norms. It's a classic tragedy of the commons situation. Individual safety means endangering others. You can't get rid of all the transporters and trucks from businesses, vans for families, etc., so people will continue to want that individual safety, meaning bigger cars.
    - MayeulC 6y ago
      > vehicles that are more and more dangerous for their environment, but which are themselves well-protected. Don't be fooled by what they tell you. A heavier vehicle is more dangerous to its occupants as well. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/as-cars-get-heavier-even-small-speed-differences-matter-in-a-crash/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/as-cars-get-heavier-eve...
      - morberg 6y ago
        I’m confused. The article you linked to says the opposite: > Ironically, much of this trend is fueled by the fact that safety sells, and the biggest, heaviest cars are the safest—for their occupants, at least.
- usrusr 6y ago
  Another big difference to ICE is that all quality differences of electrics are highly relevant to their users (range, range, range and the amount of charging hassle required to fulfill your usage pattern), whereas ICE can already be good enough for a user that doesn't want/need/can go fast at an extremely low level of sophistication. Any quality metrics beyond "the engine reliably starts and goes tuk tuk until I arrive where I need to be" are mostly about externalities (noise, stink, other forms of emission) not directly relevant to the user. Cheap BEV manufacturers will see a wildly different incentive structure towards better tech than their ICE brethren (or former selves)
dragonsh 6y ago
It’s good and almost all of them assemble the small EV from ready made CKD (completely knocked down) kits from neighbouring country (imported legally or illegally due to policy ban to show as produced in India). The value addition is in terms of making an outer body or assembling the imported battery cells and wheels (comes with inbuilt motor), depending on the capacity. India lacks basic manufacturing capability at present and is still a decade or two behind major players in this industry. Indeed almost all EV including the much celebrated local brands rely on supply from other countries (mostly from an immediate neighbour especially for battery cells, wheels with motors, PCB and power management electronics). India makes only vehicle body based on local needs. Hopefully this kind of car manufacturer are directly allowed to setup factories in India, instead of those middleman who try to get a large cut in India for substandard products, just for moving products due to restrictions and complications due to government policies of indigenous development, promoting inefficient indigenous manufacturers.
- brainless 6y ago
  I am not sure where you get this idea from but India is a huge automobile manufacturing hub, globally speaking. Yes India started very late but there is probably no part that is not manufactured inside the country. I am speaking of less than luxury brands of cars here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_India
  - dragonsh 6y ago
    > there is probably no part that is not manufactured inside the country May be before commenting go and look for statistics yourself if India is even considered a player in EV manufacturing market. Most of its EV startups and manufacturers rely on China, Korea and Japan for motors, electrical drive train, battery cells, PCB, elctronics and many core parts. India even imports electrical transformers from China, the most basic equipment for building electrical distribution network. [1] May be talk to any auto manufacturers even most celebrated one's in India, have supply chain mostly from China. Go and ask Tata for its cars ECU, steering wheel and even steel. Indian mfg mostly are assembly and marketing company. China only recently became a manufacturer in EV and high speed train. It took over 3 decades of continuous improvements and development of close nit supply chain eco-system, India started opening up with an earlier government but with current government focusing on protective policies to enrich billionaires', it might take longer. [1] https://tradingeconomics.com/india/imports/china/electric-transform-static-converters-induct#:~:text=Converters%20and%20Inductors-,India%20Imports%20from%20China%20of%20Electrical%20Transformers%2C%20Static%20Converters%20and,COMTRADE%20database%20on%20international%20trade https://tradingeconomics.com/india/imports/china/electric-tr....
redisman 6y ago
The basic EV design seems to be orders of magnitude simpler than implementing exploding dinosaur fumes to drive a vehicle.
- justapassenger 6y ago
  None of those companies builds their own motors and batteries. They get them as kits, same as you can get ICE engines. It’s simpler to integrate, that’s for sure, but not orders of magnitude.
  - wongarsu 6y ago
    ICE engines need plumbing to fuel tank and exhaust, and they need a transmission. They also need a battery and alternator to power the lights, and either a starter motor or kickstarter to get the motor going. In comparison an electrical motor is just a motor, battery and charger in the minimal setup
  - jillesvangurp 6y ago
    Elektrek has been running a series of amusing articles lately where they review some outrageously cheap vehicles for sale on Alibaba. Think mini jeeps, SUVs, pickup trucks, go carts, etc. selling for something like 1500$. Some of these look like a lot of fun. None of those are street legal of course but they are dirt cheap. That's kind of the point. All you need is some cheap batteries and an electric motor. Most of these vehicles even use lead acid batteries (cheaper). It's not a high tech business and mass production is pretty straightforward. India and China have several EVs targeted at their domestic market priced around 5000$ selling in rather large volumes. Nothing world shocking in terms of performance or range but they are basically very nice city cars. Mass producing small vehicles with off the shelf cheap batteries and electro motors is going to be vastly simpler than producing a lot of fragile ICE technology in need of frequent servicing, spare parts, etc. Basically, take the engine out of any cheap washing machine (around 1500kw), add some basic mechanics for wheels, steering, brakes and a battery and you have a nice vehicle. That's pretty much all the technology you need. A handy mechanic could probably put together a nice car from parts like that for next to nothing.
thinkingkong 6y ago
How much of the shift is to ev from nothing vs from scooters and mopeds?
rorykoehler 6y ago
I don’t think I ever drove above 40kmh in an Indian city if I wasn’t off the expressway or whatever they are called in India. It’s the perfect solution for everyday life. Hopefully they become pervasive and help reduce air pollution dramatically.
- Gys 6y ago
  I lived on a tropical island for a while where the roads were so bad, narrow and busy that speeds above 40 km/h almost never happened (there was a one km stretch on the opposite side where I could reach 50-60 if lucky). Turned out that the low speed combined with short drives (it was a smallish island) was bad for the engine: the oil never really mixed well and had to be replaced much more often than expected for such low milage.
  - natchy 6y ago
    > low speed combined with short drives (it was a smallish island) was bad for the engine Low speed or low RPM?
- jordanbeiber 6y ago
  Where I live 50km/h is the speed limit in urban areas. In city centers it id often 40 or 30. The effects of air pollution has just begun to dawn I reckon - it is indeed a welcome solution. Also the frickin' grid is there! Transporting oil and refined gasoline around the world seems like a crazy proposition in comparison.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    I'm still surprised how hard that perspective shift seems to be for people: Everywhere there is an outlet is a potential place to charge a vehicle. (Maybe not quickly, but that's a different matter, and people greatly underestimate what you can do with a steady trickle.) Everywhere there is a street lamp or grid-powered parking meter or stop light is a place that maybe doesn't have easy to access outlets today, but potentially could quite easily. Meanwhile we've been driven to think that the incredibly complicated logistics dance of liquids being shipped and trucked all around the world to pumps is a "simple" supply chain that is easy to run and will be around forever. Gas stations run on very low margins, the supply chain is ripe for disruption (in the bad way) and we've seen in the past (for instance, the 70s oil crisis) how quickly stations and pumps will close at the slightest disruption, and how easily that can snowball. ICE range anxiety will return, the gambles right now are on when and how quickly/how bad. (My money is on "surprisingly soon" and "very quickly, a lot quicker than most people seem to think".)
oblio 6y ago
> What I conclude is that EV revolution is going to be way more democratized than we realize. That's what we all hope. What tends to happen instead, is that mass market stuff gets monopoliged/oligopolized quickly, because there's just too much money on the table. It just looks "democratic" during the scramble, before the winners are decided. If anything, since EVs are simple, we're going to see <<more>> centralization, not less. There will be a huge race for the cheapest/most efficient engine/battery and all these efficiencies will come from huge scale (in research, development, production techniques). Look at what is happening with electronic circuits production. There are what, 4 state of the art producers? TSMC, Samsung, Intel, I'm probably forgetting someone.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Since when are semiconductors anywhere near "simple"? An EV can be made in a garage. Look at airplanes - small companies indeed are successful.
  - oblio 6y ago
    Advanced batteries are not simple. Electric engines are somewhat simple. But they're not the main source of complexity.
    - CyberDildonics 6y ago
      What do you mean by "advanced batteries"? Battery cells are a commodity. Lithium iron phosphate cells last through 8 times more cycles. Battery management boards can be bought off of amazon, aliexpress etc. You can find plenty of youtube videos of people spot welding 18650 cells together with nickel strips and wiring a BMS to make their own battery pack, then putting it in their own scooter, electric bike etc. You can even buy full battery packs from actual electric cars and hybrids off the internet. This is not something that is difficult for a single person, let alone a company.
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  >Look at what is happening with electronic circuits production. There are what, 4 state of the art producers? TSMC, Samsung, Intel, I'm probably forgetting someone. what of it? We don't have hundreds of airplane makers. Are circuits less efficient/compact then we need them to be? are they overpriced? if not, why should we need more than a handful of manufacturers to do the job? Make cars less necessary, do away with half of the legacy brands, (which are anyway owned by the same company) problem solved.
blueblisters 6y ago
This happened 10 years ago too when there was a flood of manufacturers who were importing and assembling low-powered two-wheeled electric vehicles, but for some reason they never took for whatever reason - lack of range or too expensive etc. The new generation of small manufacturers assembling electric people movers face different challenges. I talked to one assembler who had no previous experience in this industry and their biggest challenge was getting safety permits from Indian regulators. Which makes sense, honestly. I think the real challenge is on the demand side - the comparable electric two wheelers are at least twice as expensive as their ICE counterparts, which makes it hard for consumers to justify their purchase, even after a web of state subsidies.
- brainless 6y ago
  This a good point. If you ask me, I think there is a difference between the product and the market demands. 10 years back my friend had purchased an e-bike. But India is filled with ICE bikes that have decent city performance and lower prices. So an e-bike is just a novelty. While Rickshaws and other people movers do not have many cheap + motorized alternatives (ICE or EV). They also run for 100s of Kms per day and the cost saving from going electric is significant. No one will care too much if the vehicle is not "racing" at 80 Km/h. Doing just 40 Km/h is good enough. Thus the same electric battery and motor found a much better market I would say. And I have been keenly watching the growth of these machines. First I say foot Rickshaws being retrofitted with motor about 8 years back, early prototypes from market demand. Now there are hundreds of manufacturers across multiple cities, 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier including. There are even big brands like Mahindra, Bajaj, Exide in the e-Rickshaw space. I witness this across West Bengal and Sikkim as I drive (with my ICE car) the odd 700 Kms stretch. Product - Market fit may I say?
  - silvestrov 6y ago
    Cheaper batteries will change everything. If batteries drop enough in price that e-bikes are no more expensive than ICE bikes, the changeover will be fast.
cptaj 6y ago
In Venezuela we've had a crippling gasoline shortage since last year (Don't vote for communist dictators). Within months we saw EVs appear everywhere. Tiny Fiat EVs imported for the rich who could buy a new car on a whim, sure, but also thousands of scooters and Ebikes popped up everywhere. Really small, 40km/h tops, cheap from china; exactly what you say happened in a few months.
- yonaguska 6y ago
  > Don't vote for communist dictators The first time you vote for a communist dictator, is the last time your vote will count.
marshmallow_12 6y ago
£500,000,000 wasn't enough to get James Dyson's electric car company off the ground. The future of cars will not be more democratized. The proposed democracy will rest in electrified non-cars. Which is not a bad thing. But what's to convince a Western person to give up his car? Making them more expensive won't help. Making tiny, very cheap things more socially accepted and desirable will. (Note: this CANNOT just be done by punishing car owners)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
clusterfish 6y ago
Lack of regulations will do that. Meanwhile over here the only EVs from small producers are e-bikes because the regulations don't have a concept of low powered cars, and everything that doesn't qualify as an e-bike or a motor bike is regulated as a full car.

brainless 6y ago

The critical part that is playing its role as I understand is that DC motors and batteries are plenty available from decent manufacturers. Very soon, as I see articles around the web, there will be much better quality motors and batteries available across the country from brands say Yamaha or LG. Making the shell of a vehicle is not hard. ICEs have a ridiculously higher parts count compared to EVs. And not all EVs have to go above 60 KM/h.

medstrom 6y ago
What's ICE?
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Internal combustion engine
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    See also these commonly used abbreviations: Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) Battery-Electric Vehicle (BEV)
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      Good rule I learned from the guy that taught writing for engineers, no matter what spell out acronyms the first time you use them.
- sunstone 6y ago
  Stink mobiles.
llampx 6y ago
The only thing stopping this democratization would be crash-worthiness. While this is more true for Western markets currently, regulations will come to India as well. However many Indians ride in the 3-wheeled death-traps called auto-rickshaws so I don't know... I've personally been in one which almost rolled over when the driver made a sharp turn at (relatively) high speed.
- pyrale 6y ago
  > The only thing stopping this democratization would be crash-worthiness. There is no trouble making small crash-worthy vehicles if the standard vehicle is no more than a few hundred kilos and is limited to 30-50 km/h. On the other hand, the current trend for western vehicles has been to make vehicles that are more and more dangerous for their environment, but which are themselves well-protected. So there is a good argument that regulation could move towards western standards by banning small cars, but banning larger cars could also produce good safety norms.
  - carlmr 6y ago
    >banning larger cars could also produce good safety norms. It's a classic tragedy of the commons situation. Individual safety means endangering others. You can't get rid of all the transporters and trucks from businesses, vans for families, etc., so people will continue to want that individual safety, meaning bigger cars.
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    > vehicles that are more and more dangerous for their environment, but which are themselves well-protected. Don't be fooled by what they tell you. A heavier vehicle is more dangerous to its occupants as well. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/as-cars-get-heavier-even-small-speed-differences-matter-in-a-crash/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/as-cars-get-heavier-eve...
    - morberg 6y ago
      I’m confused. The article you linked to says the opposite: > Ironically, much of this trend is fueled by the fact that safety sells, and the biggest, heaviest cars are the safest—for their occupants, at least.
usrusr 6y ago
Another big difference to ICE is that all quality differences of electrics are highly relevant to their users (range, range, range and the amount of charging hassle required to fulfill your usage pattern), whereas ICE can already be good enough for a user that doesn't want/need/can go fast at an extremely low level of sophistication. Any quality metrics beyond "the engine reliably starts and goes tuk tuk until I arrive where I need to be" are mostly about externalities (noise, stink, other forms of emission) not directly relevant to the user. Cheap BEV manufacturers will see a wildly different incentive structure towards better tech than their ICE brethren (or former selves)

dragonsh 6y ago

It’s good and almost all of them assemble the small EV from ready made CKD (completely knocked down) kits from neighbouring country (imported legally or illegally due to policy ban to show as produced in India). The value addition is in terms of making an outer body or assembling the imported battery cells and wheels (comes with inbuilt motor), depending on the capacity. India lacks basic manufacturing capability at present and is still a decade or two behind major players in this industry. Indeed almost all EV including the much celebrated local brands rely on supply from other countries (mostly from an immediate neighbour especially for battery cells, wheels with motors, PCB and power management electronics). India makes only vehicle body based on local needs. Hopefully this kind of car manufacturer are directly allowed to setup factories in India, instead of those middleman who try to get a large cut in India for substandard products, just for moving products due to restrictions and complications due to government policies of indigenous development, promoting inefficient indigenous manufacturers.

brainless 6y ago
I am not sure where you get this idea from but India is a huge automobile manufacturing hub, globally speaking. Yes India started very late but there is probably no part that is not manufactured inside the country. I am speaking of less than luxury brands of cars here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_India
- dragonsh 6y ago
  > there is probably no part that is not manufactured inside the country May be before commenting go and look for statistics yourself if India is even considered a player in EV manufacturing market. Most of its EV startups and manufacturers rely on China, Korea and Japan for motors, electrical drive train, battery cells, PCB, elctronics and many core parts. India even imports electrical transformers from China, the most basic equipment for building electrical distribution network. [1] May be talk to any auto manufacturers even most celebrated one's in India, have supply chain mostly from China. Go and ask Tata for its cars ECU, steering wheel and even steel. Indian mfg mostly are assembly and marketing company. China only recently became a manufacturer in EV and high speed train. It took over 3 decades of continuous improvements and development of close nit supply chain eco-system, India started opening up with an earlier government but with current government focusing on protective policies to enrich billionaires', it might take longer. [1] https://tradingeconomics.com/india/imports/china/electric-transform-static-converters-induct#:~:text=Converters%20and%20Inductors-,India%20Imports%20from%20China%20of%20Electrical%20Transformers%2C%20Static%20Converters%20and,COMTRADE%20database%20on%20international%20trade https://tradingeconomics.com/india/imports/china/electric-tr....

redisman 6y ago

The basic EV design seems to be orders of magnitude simpler than implementing exploding dinosaur fumes to drive a vehicle.

justapassenger 6y ago
None of those companies builds their own motors and batteries. They get them as kits, same as you can get ICE engines. It’s simpler to integrate, that’s for sure, but not orders of magnitude.
- wongarsu 6y ago
  ICE engines need plumbing to fuel tank and exhaust, and they need a transmission. They also need a battery and alternator to power the lights, and either a starter motor or kickstarter to get the motor going. In comparison an electrical motor is just a motor, battery and charger in the minimal setup
- jillesvangurp 6y ago
  Elektrek has been running a series of amusing articles lately where they review some outrageously cheap vehicles for sale on Alibaba. Think mini jeeps, SUVs, pickup trucks, go carts, etc. selling for something like 1500$. Some of these look like a lot of fun. None of those are street legal of course but they are dirt cheap. That's kind of the point. All you need is some cheap batteries and an electric motor. Most of these vehicles even use lead acid batteries (cheaper). It's not a high tech business and mass production is pretty straightforward. India and China have several EVs targeted at their domestic market priced around 5000$ selling in rather large volumes. Nothing world shocking in terms of performance or range but they are basically very nice city cars. Mass producing small vehicles with off the shelf cheap batteries and electro motors is going to be vastly simpler than producing a lot of fragile ICE technology in need of frequent servicing, spare parts, etc. Basically, take the engine out of any cheap washing machine (around 1500kw), add some basic mechanics for wheels, steering, brakes and a battery and you have a nice vehicle. That's pretty much all the technology you need. A handy mechanic could probably put together a nice car from parts like that for next to nothing.

thinkingkong 6y ago

How much of the shift is to ev from nothing vs from scooters and mopeds?

rorykoehler 6y ago

I don’t think I ever drove above 40kmh in an Indian city if I wasn’t off the expressway or whatever they are called in India. It’s the perfect solution for everyday life. Hopefully they become pervasive and help reduce air pollution dramatically.

Gys 6y ago
I lived on a tropical island for a while where the roads were so bad, narrow and busy that speeds above 40 km/h almost never happened (there was a one km stretch on the opposite side where I could reach 50-60 if lucky). Turned out that the low speed combined with short drives (it was a smallish island) was bad for the engine: the oil never really mixed well and had to be replaced much more often than expected for such low milage.
- natchy 6y ago
  > low speed combined with short drives (it was a smallish island) was bad for the engine Low speed or low RPM?
jordanbeiber 6y ago
Where I live 50km/h is the speed limit in urban areas. In city centers it id often 40 or 30. The effects of air pollution has just begun to dawn I reckon - it is indeed a welcome solution. Also the frickin' grid is there! Transporting oil and refined gasoline around the world seems like a crazy proposition in comparison.
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  I'm still surprised how hard that perspective shift seems to be for people: Everywhere there is an outlet is a potential place to charge a vehicle. (Maybe not quickly, but that's a different matter, and people greatly underestimate what you can do with a steady trickle.) Everywhere there is a street lamp or grid-powered parking meter or stop light is a place that maybe doesn't have easy to access outlets today, but potentially could quite easily. Meanwhile we've been driven to think that the incredibly complicated logistics dance of liquids being shipped and trucked all around the world to pumps is a "simple" supply chain that is easy to run and will be around forever. Gas stations run on very low margins, the supply chain is ripe for disruption (in the bad way) and we've seen in the past (for instance, the 70s oil crisis) how quickly stations and pumps will close at the slightest disruption, and how easily that can snowball. ICE range anxiety will return, the gambles right now are on when and how quickly/how bad. (My money is on "surprisingly soon" and "very quickly, a lot quicker than most people seem to think".)

oblio 6y ago

> What I conclude is that EV revolution is going to be way more democratized than we realize. That's what we all hope. What tends to happen instead, is that mass market stuff gets monopoliged/oligopolized quickly, because there's just too much money on the table. It just looks "democratic" during the scramble, before the winners are decided. If anything, since EVs are simple, we're going to see <<more>> centralization, not less. There will be a huge race for the cheapest/most efficient engine/battery and all these efficiencies will come from huge scale (in research, development, production techniques). Look at what is happening with electronic circuits production. There are what, 4 state of the art producers? TSMC, Samsung, Intel, I'm probably forgetting someone.

emteycz 6y ago
Since when are semiconductors anywhere near "simple"? An EV can be made in a garage. Look at airplanes - small companies indeed are successful.
- oblio 6y ago
  Advanced batteries are not simple. Electric engines are somewhat simple. But they're not the main source of complexity.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    What do you mean by "advanced batteries"? Battery cells are a commodity. Lithium iron phosphate cells last through 8 times more cycles. Battery management boards can be bought off of amazon, aliexpress etc. You can find plenty of youtube videos of people spot welding 18650 cells together with nickel strips and wiring a BMS to make their own battery pack, then putting it in their own scooter, electric bike etc. You can even buy full battery packs from actual electric cars and hybrids off the internet. This is not something that is difficult for a single person, let alone a company.
marshmallow_12 6y ago
>Look at what is happening with electronic circuits production. There are what, 4 state of the art producers? TSMC, Samsung, Intel, I'm probably forgetting someone. what of it? We don't have hundreds of airplane makers. Are circuits less efficient/compact then we need them to be? are they overpriced? if not, why should we need more than a handful of manufacturers to do the job? Make cars less necessary, do away with half of the legacy brands, (which are anyway owned by the same company) problem solved.

blueblisters 6y ago

This happened 10 years ago too when there was a flood of manufacturers who were importing and assembling low-powered two-wheeled electric vehicles, but for some reason they never took for whatever reason - lack of range or too expensive etc. The new generation of small manufacturers assembling electric people movers face different challenges. I talked to one assembler who had no previous experience in this industry and their biggest challenge was getting safety permits from Indian regulators. Which makes sense, honestly. I think the real challenge is on the demand side - the comparable electric two wheelers are at least twice as expensive as their ICE counterparts, which makes it hard for consumers to justify their purchase, even after a web of state subsidies.

brainless 6y ago
This a good point. If you ask me, I think there is a difference between the product and the market demands. 10 years back my friend had purchased an e-bike. But India is filled with ICE bikes that have decent city performance and lower prices. So an e-bike is just a novelty. While Rickshaws and other people movers do not have many cheap + motorized alternatives (ICE or EV). They also run for 100s of Kms per day and the cost saving from going electric is significant. No one will care too much if the vehicle is not "racing" at 80 Km/h. Doing just 40 Km/h is good enough. Thus the same electric battery and motor found a much better market I would say. And I have been keenly watching the growth of these machines. First I say foot Rickshaws being retrofitted with motor about 8 years back, early prototypes from market demand. Now there are hundreds of manufacturers across multiple cities, 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier including. There are even big brands like Mahindra, Bajaj, Exide in the e-Rickshaw space. I witness this across West Bengal and Sikkim as I drive (with my ICE car) the odd 700 Kms stretch. Product - Market fit may I say?
- silvestrov 6y ago
  Cheaper batteries will change everything. If batteries drop enough in price that e-bikes are no more expensive than ICE bikes, the changeover will be fast.

cptaj 6y ago

In Venezuela we've had a crippling gasoline shortage since last year (Don't vote for communist dictators). Within months we saw EVs appear everywhere. Tiny Fiat EVs imported for the rich who could buy a new car on a whim, sure, but also thousands of scooters and Ebikes popped up everywhere. Really small, 40km/h tops, cheap from china; exactly what you say happened in a few months.

yonaguska 6y ago
> Don't vote for communist dictators The first time you vote for a communist dictator, is the last time your vote will count.

marshmallow_12 6y ago

£500,000,000 wasn't enough to get James Dyson's electric car company off the ground. The future of cars will not be more democratized. The proposed democracy will rest in electrified non-cars. Which is not a bad thing. But what's to convince a Western person to give up his car? Making them more expensive won't help. Making tiny, very cheap things more socially accepted and desirable will. (Note: this CANNOT just be done by punishing car owners)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

clusterfish 6y ago

Lack of regulations will do that. Meanwhile over here the only EVs from small producers are e-bikes because the regulations don't have a concept of low powered cars, and everything that doesn't qualify as an e-bike or a motor bike is regulated as a full car.