5 ms·

Doesn't PBKDF2 fix that as long as you use a very large number of irritations?

by dheera 6y ago

sneak 6y ago
In theory, absolutely. In practice, bitwarden's server limits the max iteration count on a user account to something that remains insecure. They refuse to fix it. https://github.com/bitwarden/server/issues/589 https://github.com/bitwarden/server/issues/589
- Shoop 6y ago
  What do you think about this reply on that thread? https://github.com/bitwarden/server/issues/589#issuecomment-751418282 https://github.com/bitwarden/server/issues/589#issuecomment-...
- batrat 6y ago
  For me is not a big deal. If your password is Hunter22 than you have bigger problems than PBKDF. It doesn't matter if they PBKDF it 30 milion times. Longer passwords are harder to crack and I still don't understand why people not using passphrases in their passwords. Having 2fa enabled on all other accounts it makes me sleep better if somehow one day BW or any other password manager gets compromised.
- Harvesterify 6y ago
  Use a longer and more complex master password. You're welcome.
  - sneak 6y ago
    You're the sixth person to reply to me with this "advice". My own password is 30 characters and I self-host bitwarden_rs, patched to permit a higher KDF iteration count. This has nothing to do with my usage.
    - the_mitsuhiko 6y ago
      Evidently there is no problem then.
    - luis8 6y ago
      Is sharing you password length wise? Knowing the # of chars you have reduced the number of iterations needed to complete a brute force attack. 255! vs 255! / (255 - 30)! My math could be off though, i haven't work with factorials since i was in the university
      - throwaway744678 6y ago
        It's a trick. OP's password is actually 29 chars long, but the attacker will now start at 30 characters, and never brute force the actual password. Nicely played.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        I don't think you want a factorial involved. With unknown size, cracking 30 characters takes time proportional to n^30 + n^29 + n^28 etc. Cracking just 30 is proportional to n^30. The difference is negligible. A percent or two.
        luis8 6y ago
        My bad, I was thinking in permutations but those does not allow repeated entries. It make sense now, like you said the difference is negligible.

Doesn't PBKDF2 fix that as long as you use a very large number of irritations?

by dheera 6y ago

Doesn't PBKDF2 fix that as long as you use a very large number of irritations?

In theory, absolutely. In practice, bitwarden's server limits the max iteration count on a user account to something that remains insecure. They refuse to fix it. https://github.com/bitwarden/server/issues/589 https://github.com/bitwarden/server/issues/589

Shoop 6y ago
What do you think about this reply on that thread? https://github.com/bitwarden/server/issues/589#issuecomment-751418282 https://github.com/bitwarden/server/issues/589#issuecomment-...
batrat 6y ago
For me is not a big deal. If your password is Hunter22 than you have bigger problems than PBKDF. It doesn't matter if they PBKDF it 30 milion times. Longer passwords are harder to crack and I still don't understand why people not using passphrases in their passwords. Having 2fa enabled on all other accounts it makes me sleep better if somehow one day BW or any other password manager gets compromised.
Harvesterify 6y ago
Use a longer and more complex master password. You're welcome.
- sneak 6y ago
  You're the sixth person to reply to me with this "advice". My own password is 30 characters and I self-host bitwarden_rs, patched to permit a higher KDF iteration count. This has nothing to do with my usage.
  - the_mitsuhiko 6y ago
    Evidently there is no problem then.
  - luis8 6y ago
    Is sharing you password length wise? Knowing the # of chars you have reduced the number of iterations needed to complete a brute force attack. 255! vs 255! / (255 - 30)! My math could be off though, i haven't work with factorials since i was in the university
    - throwaway744678 6y ago
      It's a trick. OP's password is actually 29 chars long, but the attacker will now start at 30 characters, and never brute force the actual password. Nicely played.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      I don't think you want a factorial involved. With unknown size, cracking 30 characters takes time proportional to n^30 + n^29 + n^28 etc. Cracking just 30 is proportional to n^30. The difference is negligible. A percent or two.
      - luis8 6y ago
        My bad, I was thinking in permutations but those does not allow repeated entries. It make sense now, like you said the difference is negligible.