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There are some interesting details here but let's be suuuper clear, nobody in the residential sector consented to a 12,000% increase in power costs or a $5,000

There are some interesting details here but let's be suuuper clear, nobody in the residential sector consented to a 12,000% increase in power costs or a $5,000 - $16,000 power bill this month. I think the article tries extremely hard to forgive everyone involved aside from the residents who have now been completely devastated by this. The only real acknowledgement that residents have truly suffered something they didn't deserve is sandwiched between statements completely clearing Griddy & ERCOT of wrongdoing: > The point is that while Griddy customers should definitely be entitled to relief, Griddy is not evil. Nor is ERCOT.

techsupporter 6y ago
Exactly. In my experience, there are exactly two types of customers on the kinds of plans like Griddy offers: a) people who are heavily into cost-optimization and have spent the cash to automate their living quarters to take advantage of wholesale price swings; and b) people who are trying to stretch a dollar because a single dollar is all they have left. For people in that second category, the dollar broke and smacked them in the face. I am by no means calling people stupid for doing this; they believed the sales pitch and either did not understand (because the wholesale pricing model is actually complex) or were not told the massive potential downsides. And when the cost of keeping where you live at a livable temperature runs into the mid-three-digits per month during the summer, you're going to jump at the idea of slashing that by two-thirds. This is consent in the same way that clicking "agree" on a 15,000-word EULA is consent. It isn't.
- ahepp 6y ago
  I used to have these guys (EDIT: energy dereg companies, not griddy specifically) knocking on my door regularly with a pen, asking me to sign a contract for real time pricing literally on the spot, because I could save a bunch of money on my bill I would be shocked if there is any energy deregulation company that doesn't resort to this, because it's the basic result of hiring contractors and paying them on commission
  - paulgb 6y ago
    Unfortunately energy deregulation seems to disproportionately attract hucksters. I had never heard of Griddy until recently but in NY we have our share of pushy firms with questionable sales. Question for those in TX: was your perception of Griddy that they were sketchy, or just a get-what-you-pay-for sort of basic service? Did they aggressively sell door-to-door?
    - ohyeshedid 6y ago
      > Unfortunately energy deregulation seems to disproportionately attract hucksters. Deregulation does that in lots of markets, if not all of them. Paying via commissions does the same.
      - paulgb 6y ago
        Yes, I think especially so in industries the average person doesn’t understand well, like electricity spot markets.
        majormajor 6y ago
        The existence of hucksters is a big part of why regulation is created in the first place. If you have to "de"regulation something, ask why it was regulated in the first place!
        paulgb 6y ago
        I’m not an anti-regulation guy by any means, but I do think there are cases where too much regulation is bad for customers. I don’t know enough about Texas energy markets to say if it’s the case here, but for example the deregulation of airline markets in the US was almost certainly good for customers on net.
        freeone3000 6y ago
        It's mostly not been great. Higher prices than national DOE prices, less prepared for extreme events, and notably, no power-sharing agreement possible with the national grid since they've explicitly opted-out, and vehemently defended that choice. The Texas grid is less reliable and more expensive than either US East or US West.
NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
"Consented" in the sense of "agreed to a legal contract that permitted that outcome" or in the sense of "anticipated at the time they signed up to the contract that this was an outcome they would experience"?
- tehwebguy 6y ago
  I mean "consented" as far as a human being ever consents. If you ask me to give you a "high five" every day, but then suddenly one day you coat your hand with JB Weld before the high five without telling me and we have to be surgically separated that wasn't consent in any meaningful sense.
  - cwhiz 6y ago
    It’s always someone else’s fault. If you signed up for Griddy and didn’t know what you were getting into, that’s your fault. If you signed up for Griddy and knew the risks, that’s your fault. Either way, it’s your fault. Griddy wasn’t some shady operation that hid the downside risks. Their customers were encouraged to monitor the real time rates and use electricity when it was cheap. The week before the storm Griddy was frantically trying to terminate accounts. Is this entire country allergic to personal responsibility?
thinkcontext 6y ago
They chose to risk the possibility of unlimited prices. They chose to abandon agents that would hedge against price spikes. They pocketed the money they "saved" and chose not to insure themselves against this possibility. We have been subjected to sneering lectures from Texans and libertarians about the nanny state, socialist bureaucrats, freedom killing regulation, Venezuela, the Great Leap Forward and on and on. I'd suggest Texans kick such politicians out of government and replace them with ones that have advocated for sane policies PRIOR to this event.
- ahepp 6y ago
  Serious question, how many of them even knew what the hell they signed up for? My experience with these companies is that they'll just walk door to door with a pen telling you to sign on the dotted line to save a bunch of money. I doubt most of the people hurt by this are true believers, or even had a basic understanding of the arrangement.
  - thinkcontext 6y ago
    If they were deceived they have recourse.
  - bradleyjg 6y ago
    Where do they think that the money is coming from to enable them to come out so far ahead and pay people to walk around with clipboards too?
ghaff 6y ago
When people consent to variable rates, absent a cap they're making at least implicit assumptions about the likelihood and magnitude of rate spikes. By and large, people don't hedge variable rate loans, fuel oil prices (although some do), power rates, etc. But people (reasonably) assume that variable rate loan isn't going to spike to 50% interest some night. But as you say, I'm pretty sure that no one signing up for one of these plans imagined a 100x spike in their monthly electrical bill was a possibility.

techsupporter 6y ago

Exactly. In my experience, there are exactly two types of customers on the kinds of plans like Griddy offers: a) people who are heavily into cost-optimization and have spent the cash to automate their living quarters to take advantage of wholesale price swings; and b) people who are trying to stretch a dollar because a single dollar is all they have left. For people in that second category, the dollar broke and smacked them in the face. I am by no means calling people stupid for doing this; they believed the sales pitch and either did not understand (because the wholesale pricing model is actually complex) or were not told the massive potential downsides. And when the cost of keeping where you live at a livable temperature runs into the mid-three-digits per month during the summer, you're going to jump at the idea of slashing that by two-thirds. This is consent in the same way that clicking "agree" on a 15,000-word EULA is consent. It isn't.

ahepp 6y ago
I used to have these guys (EDIT: energy dereg companies, not griddy specifically) knocking on my door regularly with a pen, asking me to sign a contract for real time pricing literally on the spot, because I could save a bunch of money on my bill I would be shocked if there is any energy deregulation company that doesn't resort to this, because it's the basic result of hiring contractors and paying them on commission
- paulgb 6y ago
  Unfortunately energy deregulation seems to disproportionately attract hucksters. I had never heard of Griddy until recently but in NY we have our share of pushy firms with questionable sales. Question for those in TX: was your perception of Griddy that they were sketchy, or just a get-what-you-pay-for sort of basic service? Did they aggressively sell door-to-door?
  - ohyeshedid 6y ago
    > Unfortunately energy deregulation seems to disproportionately attract hucksters. Deregulation does that in lots of markets, if not all of them. Paying via commissions does the same.
    - paulgb 6y ago
      Yes, I think especially so in industries the average person doesn’t understand well, like electricity spot markets.
      - majormajor 6y ago
        The existence of hucksters is a big part of why regulation is created in the first place. If you have to "de"regulation something, ask why it was regulated in the first place!
        paulgb 6y ago
        I’m not an anti-regulation guy by any means, but I do think there are cases where too much regulation is bad for customers. I don’t know enough about Texas energy markets to say if it’s the case here, but for example the deregulation of airline markets in the US was almost certainly good for customers on net.
        freeone3000 6y ago
        It's mostly not been great. Higher prices than national DOE prices, less prepared for extreme events, and notably, no power-sharing agreement possible with the national grid since they've explicitly opted-out, and vehemently defended that choice. The Texas grid is less reliable and more expensive than either US East or US West.

NovemberWhiskey 6y ago

"Consented" in the sense of "agreed to a legal contract that permitted that outcome" or in the sense of "anticipated at the time they signed up to the contract that this was an outcome they would experience"?

tehwebguy 6y ago
I mean "consented" as far as a human being ever consents. If you ask me to give you a "high five" every day, but then suddenly one day you coat your hand with JB Weld before the high five without telling me and we have to be surgically separated that wasn't consent in any meaningful sense.
- cwhiz 6y ago
  It’s always someone else’s fault. If you signed up for Griddy and didn’t know what you were getting into, that’s your fault. If you signed up for Griddy and knew the risks, that’s your fault. Either way, it’s your fault. Griddy wasn’t some shady operation that hid the downside risks. Their customers were encouraged to monitor the real time rates and use electricity when it was cheap. The week before the storm Griddy was frantically trying to terminate accounts. Is this entire country allergic to personal responsibility?

thinkcontext 6y ago

They chose to risk the possibility of unlimited prices. They chose to abandon agents that would hedge against price spikes. They pocketed the money they "saved" and chose not to insure themselves against this possibility. We have been subjected to sneering lectures from Texans and libertarians about the nanny state, socialist bureaucrats, freedom killing regulation, Venezuela, the Great Leap Forward and on and on. I'd suggest Texans kick such politicians out of government and replace them with ones that have advocated for sane policies PRIOR to this event.

ahepp 6y ago
Serious question, how many of them even knew what the hell they signed up for? My experience with these companies is that they'll just walk door to door with a pen telling you to sign on the dotted line to save a bunch of money. I doubt most of the people hurt by this are true believers, or even had a basic understanding of the arrangement.
- thinkcontext 6y ago
  If they were deceived they have recourse.
- bradleyjg 6y ago
  Where do they think that the money is coming from to enable them to come out so far ahead and pay people to walk around with clipboards too?

ghaff 6y ago

When people consent to variable rates, absent a cap they're making at least implicit assumptions about the likelihood and magnitude of rate spikes. By and large, people don't hedge variable rate loans, fuel oil prices (although some do), power rates, etc. But people (reasonably) assume that variable rate loan isn't going to spike to 50% interest some night. But as you say, I'm pretty sure that no one signing up for one of these plans imagined a 100x spike in their monthly electrical bill was a possibility.