10 ms·

Living Like It's 99: No Social Media, No Smartphone

94 points by betaman0 6y ago

Aperocky 6y ago
A lot of the things he figured change doesn't seemed to be an effect of social media, rather the social groups he belonged to. I'm not on most of the platform he described, and are barely reachable on the ones that are, have almost no friend group that chats constantly. I still happily use a smartphone for a lot of things, no 'hey if you want to communicate to me you'll have to install this new app'. Sounds like exporting the problem to someone else whereas one can just wean off the addictive part of those apps without actually deleting them.
the_only_law 6y ago
I’ve thought about it. It would be kinda cool to be able to give up the distractions and just switch to a feature phone. Unfortunately I have some unusual circumstances that make me dependent on them for general day to day activities.
ricardobayes 6y ago
I have been doing the same and it's been great. While I have a smartphone, I don't have a data plan and don't carry it with me when I'm out. I only use it for 2fa.
decafbad 6y ago
Wrote as a blog article and put on a Reddit-like site.
- ttt0 6y ago
  A personal blog is not social media and HN arguably is not social media either, as it doesn't even have basic social networking functionality like private messages.
paul7986 6y ago
Just a beeper and driving to the nearest pay phone to call the person who beeped you (circa '94 to '99).
- rhn_mk1 6y ago
  To the nearest what?
  - paul7986 6y ago
    yes ... prior to the early 2000s there use to be a thing called a pay phone.. in the 90s as teen you surely didnt have your own cellphone. You had a beeper possibly or after 18 to 20 you or your friends.. definitely someone had a beeper that you use to beep someone to give them a call. If you were out and about you drove to the nearest pay phone (.25 per call).
    - rhn_mk1 6y ago
      The joke was that they barely exist any more. Maybe at some bigger train stations.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  Both of those things still exist lol
- bdamm 6y ago
  IIRC most people had cells by 1999, just not smartphones. One used their phone to call people. Certainly that was the case by 2003 but I think that was also true of 1999.
  - paul7986 6y ago
    In 1999 if you were a teen you most likely did not have a cellphone..18 to 24 you might have had a cellphone. Email (hotmail) and AIM (AOL Messenger) was used extensively.
  - 6y ago
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Something I'd really like to try, should the right product ever come along, is going smartwatch-only. No smartphone. Most of the things that I really need a phone for, I should be able to do from a watch. Making calls and listening to music shouldn't be a problem, and voice dictation is sufficient for short messages. Anything longer and more in-depth can and should wait until I'm at a computer.
offtop5 6y ago
Even though he's just advertising a newsletter. He's right. Make friends in real life, meet partners via your social life. Don't waste time hopping on Facebook to envy people you don't even know. A big part of my maturing was to stop comparing myself. Everyone starts at a different place, and everyone is at a different place. Someone who say dealt with homelessness as a teenager can be happy to rent half a room at 22. he or she doesn't have to compare themselves to a Facebook new grad with a 200k TC offer.
- dgellow 6y ago
  > Make friends in real life, meet partners via your social life What social life do you have during a global pandemic? Where I'm located everything is shut down since December and won't reopen before some still-not-determined date next month. I'm glad I was already in a stable relationship covid, otherwise I wouldn't know how to have contacts with people in real life in the current situation.
  - offtop5 6y ago
    One of my neighbors just introduced me to low level arduno programing. Hoping to work on more projects with him in the future. Reached out to a girl I meet while traveling in Europe a few years back , she responded so we'll see what happens. 2019 was absurdly good for me. Had a few amazing partners , but this only happened because I deleted my social media. I'm fine with taking a year or two off.
john2010 6y ago
FTA > A trick I’ve developed, when giving my contact info to new people, is to enter my phone number on their smartphone myself, and install Signal for them. Glad to know. Edit: I meant - who allow this?
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Whatever your opinions on Signal, I'd be a little miffed if someone installed an app on my phone without my permission. (Although, I'm also pretty sure iOS won't even let you do that without my fingerprint...)
aphextron 6y ago
I've always said we peaked at the technology level of the late 90s. We had everything we needed, and none of the BS; cell phones, e-mail, instant messaging, SMS, file sharing, blogs, forums, and broadband internet were all widespread at that point. Everything since has just been layers of monetized, corporate controlled, walled garden crap that has objectively ruined society and turned the techno-utopian dreams we had then into a dystopic Orwellian nightmare.
- ricardobayes 6y ago
  Unfortunately, couldn't agree more. We need more cancel culture in tech.
- hattmall 6y ago
  So how do we get it back?
  - thesuitonym 6y ago
    Give everyone you want to talk to your phone number, then delete all of your social media accounts, for a start.
- icedchai 6y ago
  Yes, I always thought this as well, but was not sure if it was influenced by me feeling nostalgic for the 90's...
  - Shared404 6y ago
    I was not around enough in the 90's to have nostalgia, but looking back at history I have to agree.
- zeroonetwothree 6y ago
  Blogging wasn’t really widespread until ~2001-2002
- goodoldneon 6y ago
JKCalhoun 6y ago
Raises some interesting points, then replaces the smart phone with more devices. Sure, solved the privacy issue by essentially cutting the network cord. But needing a special watch+GPS to navigate? I was hoping he was all in and would revert to paper maps. I remember, being new in town, plotting my destination on a paper map before setting out — but recording the instructions ("Turn left on El Camino..." into one of those small digital recorders (think 1995) so I could drive without having to consult the map. That's about the level of tech I was expecting. Myself, I would prefer to live like it's "79. The CB radio was sort of peak technology as far as I'm concerned.
- cratermoon 6y ago
  10-4, Rubber Duck.
miguelmurca 6y ago
> A trick I’ve developed, when giving my contact info to new people, is to enter my phone number on their smartphone myself, and install Signal for them. don't... do that. don't install stuff on anyone's phone unless they've told you to.
- miguelmota 6y ago
  Completely agree. And doesn’t installing apps require the owner’s face id or password?
  - athorax 6y ago
    Depends how you have it configured on android at least, if the phone is unlocked already you can install from the play store w/o additional permissions unless it is a paid app
  - gruez 6y ago
    Even on ios it's technically not required. You only need touchid/faceid/password to add the app to your account. Afterwards you can freely install without additional authentication.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      I suppose, but you'd need to have downloaded Signal previously.
- TameAntelope 6y ago
  Yeah, this will immediately stop me from wanting to further engage with you if you do this. It's kind of ironic how little respect for someone else's privacy this behavior exhibits, considering the intent.
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  Who the heck would even hand over their phone to someone just to get a phone number?
calvinmorrison 6y ago
I ditched all my social media after being a lifelong user. The biggest noticeable change for me is I suddenly forgot most of these random 'online' friends and don't think about them at all anymore! If I'm not willing to pick up the phone or text somebody, I don't interact with them - that's it. I find I have more boredom, which is a good thing. I was quite bored as a kid and had to make do with my own devices. So I've been reading more, I even picked up some hobby programming outside of my job which I haven't done in years! The only place I still comment is actually hacker news!
- ccsnags 6y ago
  Same. HN is the best but even this was something I found from a random face to face in a hotel lobby. I have gotten most of my friends off of the social media feeds. All of them have seen benefits and a couple have seen such a drastic change that they equate it to taking an antidepressant.
  - calvinmorrison 6y ago
    The benefit of the internet is that for niche subjects you can always find friends. The stupid part of social media is that many of those niche groups ended up using facebook/twitter/etc as a SSO/single place to discuss those things. But you don't need to - that niche can still exist. I use forums, email and IRC for those ends, so the internet still remains useful for me, for now.
- sumtechguy 6y ago
  When I was younger I tried every new internet service I could get ahold of. I however now do not add in new services unless they have been around a bit. They also must have some actual tangible benefit to my life. I have also removed a lot of the 'popup' services. These are the ones that like to notify you every 3 seconds about something. They beg for attention like a broken Tamagotchi. In my mid 30s I realized my monetary problems are fairly 'steady state' and not a big headache anymore. But what I do lack is time. Smartphones have an issue as most of the models of revenue for them are internet 'freemium'/'advert supported'. What I realized is that stuff had started to take up a significant amount of my time. Time I needed for other things. If you let these things in you will find yourself consumed by them. Every last one looking for engagement. I cut out all major news sources for the same reasons. They were attention machines that did not a thing to really improve my life. So given those conditions. My smart phone is ancient by tech standards. Has a very small handful of applications. My laptop desktop is setup with whatever the designer thought was a decent idea for the version of the OS I am using. Things I stay away from are social media, fermium games, or news. All three of those are little more than disguised skinner boxes. That try to make me feel good about myself but do not actually do that. Another annoying thing is no one really seems to want to sell you things anymore. They want to sell you a service. Then one day 'poof' that service is gone. I no longer have the cool utility anymore, and many times a pile of expensive paper weights. So I avoid any service where their pitch is 'it costs less than a cup of coffee per month'. If I have gone through the trouble to make your thing part of my life I do not want it suddenly 'going away' either by upgrade or bankruptcy. So I try to find better alternatives that will stick around.
UI_at_80x24 6y ago
Hey Millenials, or Gen-Z'ers: A world existed before you came around. 1986-1992: BBS's, newsgroups 1992-today: IRC, NNTP, and IM clients There existed ways to be social long before FaceBook/IG/Reddit/et al. were around. And if you squint you can even see the skeleton of those other platforms in the things you use today. If I were to live today like I did in 1999: My (online) social groups were a close knit family of people that shared similar interests. Half of whom lived on the other side of the planet. I typed with them daily, and had close relationships. Everything I see on Facebook/IG is vapid, and meaningless. Nothing but fakeness and trying to impress strangers. FFS 1999 is post 'Eternal September'. Had the article been dated 1979 I might have tolerance for this intentional ignorance.
- srndsnd 6y ago
  As a millennial (25), I disagree with the notion that all of Facebook and Instagram are vapid and meaningless. To me, that just shows that you're not curating your feeds in a manner that highlights what good remains on the platforms. The problem to me is not that people are less willing to participate, but that the platforms have consumed all meaningful discussion. I'm a part of some fantastic niche groups on Facebook, follow insightful people on Twitter, and read many fantastic subreddits. I've led book clubs, played board games, and developed deep, meaningful relationships via these platforms. They problem is they have been consumed in the monolith of likes and cat pictures, and pulling the value out is growing more difficult. It's a matter of continually chopping back the vines (cutting /r/funny and /r/worldnews out of reddit, deleting friends you don't care about and unliking fan pages on Facebook). My internet social groups are still the same as yours are. We just have different mediums through which we communicate.
  - toast0 6y ago
    > As a millennial (25), I disagree with the notion that all of Facebook and Instagram are vapid and meaningless. To me, that just shows that you're not curating your feeds in a manner that highlights what good remains on the platforms. I don't know about Instagram, but Facebook will put vapid garbage into your feed if you've curated it down enough. 'You might be interested in ...' because they don't want to have a stale feed when your friends aren't doing anything. Disclosure: I worked at Facebook, as part of an aquisition; however, I never worked on or with the feed team.
sparrish 6y ago
Blogging like it's 2006
karaterobot 6y ago
> They all had my phone number, email address and other ways of contacting me. However, none of them did. It was like I had exited the matrix, and was living in another reality. Definitely experienced this. People didn't think I was dead, but they had this weird mental block where, at least at first, they couldn't think of how to contact me except on social media. They did eventually figure it out.
fuball63 6y ago
Here's a story: I use a Blackberry 10 device, have for the past 6 years. So I'm half in/half out of smartphone ownership. I can browse websites in the browser (the web's made this much harder to do of recent) but apps are out of the question. I was extolling the virtues of my ways to a friend on a business trip to Denver. I have everything I need, nothing I don't. I can call, text, browse some sites. I have balance, I have minimalism, I have peace. Then we decided to take a bus trip to Boulder. When we arrived at the station, there was no teller, and you had to install an app to buy a ticket. I sheepishly asked him to buy my ticket, and I paid him back in cash (no Venmo for BB10), and felt like a thorough and proper asshole. I still have my BB10 phone.
- lubesGordi 6y ago
  That sucks man. I'd actually love for this thread to document different situations where a smartphone was basically a necessity.
- Cd00d 6y ago
  Thank you. It's refreshing to see someone embrace humility. Good, sincere story.
- jhbadger 6y ago
  I know there are things like this, but I don't think they should be allowed. Not everyone has a smartphone. Many elderly people don't. Many poor people don't. Many disabled people don't. Yes, having the option to bypass human interaction using a phone should be allowed, but to make travel dependent on having a smartphone is insane. It's like those websites for signing up for the Covid vaccine ignoring that a lot of elderly people have no idea what that even means.
  - calvinmorrison 6y ago
    I rented a U-Haul recently to pick up furniture. I reserved a 1/2 truck online. Upon arriving I entered the office and said I had a reservation. He then asked me to fill out a form on my phone. Then when I returned the vehicle I went in to drop off the keys. I had to take photos and fill out a form, again on a phone. The whole system was geared for 'easy' 'seamless' pickup, but it was much more difficult then renting a car a decade ago. They eliminated a cost of having more than one useless employee by making the customer do all the work. Totally infuriating and a horrible experience.
nbzso 6y ago
I use my phone for phone calls and banking apps - if necessary. For work is email, slack and Kanboard on my own Linode instance. There is nothing I miss about social networks. Nothing. Less distractions. Less emotional impact from the network. Last year deleted my Linkedin profile. Replaced Google with Duck and Bing. Gmail is only for junk. Avoiding Amazon where is possible. Don't plan to buy new shit from Apple either. After my current computer dies I am moving to Linux/KDE and plan to never look back. Never felt so calm and clear-minded. Highly recommend the FAANG detox.
joduplessis 6y ago
> nor do I miss its endless group talks without anything useful Much of human communication is useless (on the surface). > A trick I’ve developed, when giving my contact info to new people, is to enter my phone number on their smartphone myself, and install Signal for them Pretty invasive. Also where I started thinking maybe the author just preferred for everyone to be on their medium of choice (rather than they be on somebody else's medium of choice).
- jefurii 6y ago
  > Much of human communication is useless (on the surface). Yep. It's called phatic expression (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phatic_expression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phatic_expression). No information content but sends important social signals.
miguelmota 6y ago
Social media used to be fun 10 years ago. Twitter was a fun place with fun people when I started using it in 2009. Now social media has turned into a platform for misinformation, contrarians, and ‘gotcha’ folks.
- zeroonetwothree 6y ago
  Maybe it has more to do with you getting older than the platform changing
  - skeeter2020 6y ago
    It's probably due to more adoption by the masses has dramatically altered the tribalism, sense of community and significantly changed the content & usage. It is definitely elitist, but I miss an internet that required some effort if you wished to participate. It has been a net gain for the world, but probably a loss for most of the people here.
  - geraldcombs 6y ago
    I can't speak for the GP, but Facebook became much less fun about a year ago when anti-mask disinformation started flooding in and I realized it was going to kill a lot of people. I haven't been on FB since then.
ManBlanket 6y ago
I deleted my Facebook a decade ago and just recently got a message on LinkedIn from an old friend from high school. I guess he still runs into my mom sometimes but he was always afraid to ask her about me because he thought I might, "be in jail or something". Wow dude hopefully you don't always go 0-100 like that. Nah, I have a beautiful wife, 3 kids, and a fulfilling career building software. I don't need to stroke my ego any more than I already do. Nobody does. We had a meaningful exchange of emails and that was the end of it. To be honest I'd ditch the smart phone too if it wasn't for how useful google photos is, not to mention maps when you're on vacation. Frankly I miss i9. Writing text messages without looking at the phone. Imagine how great it would be these days with the guessing algorithms.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  I've never had a facebook account and sometimes I wonder what people think. Most of my friends just take it as me being [imitates Kramer] out there. But I suppose it is possible that there are people from my past that might think I'm dead or something.
  - jefurii 6y ago
    You could self-host a web page that has enough keywords that people from various phases of your life could find you if they googled, and then a contact form or whatever.
goodoldneon 6y ago
Masterclass in irony: complain about a lack of privacy and then require an email address to read the full article
- rthomas6 6y ago
  No it doesn't. I just clicked free download and it worked.
alexshendi 6y ago
Was anyone else reminded of "Tonight we're gonna party, like it's 1999"? Anyway all of e. g. Usenet, mailing lists, and BBSes had their fair share of noise and toxicity.
jhbadger 6y ago
The "When phones had wires, humans were free" idea ignores that back in the day when the phone rang, you'd stop whatever you were doing and answer it. There was no Caller ID, no voice mail. You picked up the phone not knowing if this was an important work call, a social call from a friend or relative, or somebody trying to sell you something. Yes, a mobile phone means you can be contacted anywhere, but on the flip side you are free to ignore it, safe in knowing that you'll miss nothing of importance. People will leave a message, or at least you can see who called.
- rthomas6 6y ago
  Mobile phones didn't invent caller ID and answering machines...
  - skinnymuch 6y ago
    I don’t recall caller ID being ubiquitous in 99. Answering machines had good penetration though.
    - rthomas6 6y ago
      I was 12 in 99, so my memory isn't great on this, but I remember having it around then. It could have been a few years later, though. I seem to recall that you had to pay extra for it, so most people didn't bother.
      - nonameiguess 6y ago
        Caller ID was first trialed in the consumer market in 1984. Hell, the first patent was filed for it in 1969. The international standard was defined in 1993. It's been around longer than people remember. Plus, we had *69 in the 90s.
      - skinnymuch 6y ago
        Perhaps my family was poorer than average at that point. I saw others on HN saying cell phones were getting ubiquitous in 99 too. I only recall one or two adults around me having a cell during that time.
pgtan 6y ago
reminds me of JPod (and jPod)
seniorThrowaway 6y ago
Like most technology I think the key is to interact with smartphones and social media on your terms as much as possible. I'm not willing to totally ditch social media because it is the only way I communicate with some people who I still want to communicate with. The compromise I've come up with is I installed facebook messenger lite on my smartphone, but I won't install the full facebook app. This lets people contact me but lets me choose when I interact with the news feed, I find their mobile browser version works just fine to include my occasional post or upload. In general I find using the smartphone as a works anywhere web browser to be the tradeoff that is best for me, I try to avoid installing apps as much a possible for privacy and annoyance reasons. I also run as much privacy software as possible and only use a phone brand that allows a road warrior VPN setup so I can route my traffic through a network that has additional privacy protections. This does take effort but so does anything else that gives you any degree of privacy from surveillance capitalism.
ctime 6y ago
I agree with no Social Media, but not having a Smartphone seems really too much. My cell phone allows me to instantly communicate with my family members, know their exact whereabouts, monitor my home security and energy usage etc. Using it for super helpful driving directions (Waze or gmaps) and decidedly 21st century technologies like Instacart have been game changers. When I'm dropped (pre-covid) into another country, my service (tmobile) just "works" and often times my phone is preconfigured for the local transit system app (or just "works", due to NFC e.g. Suica in JP or Oystercard in London). Not to mention all the online and offline media (Netflix etc) that is almost endless these days. I would never go back to the bad old days of T9 Nokias by comparison. I'm not a fan of social media, annoying notifications or interruptions and have them mostly turned off. If someone 'really' wants to interrupt, they can call. That's fine.
- taylodl 6y ago
  I don't have any Social Media apps installed on my phone. I access them only from a browser running on my laptop. Not having the apps always with me everywhere I go has improved my privacy and prevents mindless engagement. This has been working very well for me.
stryan 6y ago
>We’ve reached a dangerous level in society where people are afraid of human interaction, refusing a phone call because it makes them interact more humanly and with less control. >Texting gives you more reflection on what you’re gonna say than a real and instant conversation That's..not the conclusion I would have pulled from that. Seems far more likely people prefer to text over call because texting allows them to continue on with their day while calling requires them to give up a certain amount of time and interrupts what they're currently doing. Millennials are supposedly very phone-shy (something I can anecdotally confirm) yet I've never seen anyone barring the pandemic I don't think they're any less likely to engage in in-person human interaction, which doesn't fit this conclusion about phones. Long phone calls, especially over cell phones due to comfort and latency issues, are uncomfortable.
rjsw 6y ago
Have never owned a smartphone, did have a Facebook account for a week before deleting it.
motohagiography 6y ago
The one device I would like would be an e-paper Signal and Matrix messenger with a physical keyboard and without a camera, a form factor not unlike early blackberry devices.
naebother 6y ago
I wonder if social media would be more bearable without the invention/normalization of smartphones (iPhone style phones). Or vice-versa. It's the combination of the two I find most annoying about modern life.
olivertaylor 6y ago
The problem with opting out of these things is just how much our modern society relies on them, in very practical ways. There's a local business (great croissants) that closes on random days (the owner is French) and the only place they publish that information is Instagram. You walk to the store and there's no note, nothing on their website, no-one answering the phone, but on Instagram they've been warning their customers for days. I just got a haircut and after the cut was done he told me their credit card processor was down so I had to pay via venmo or whatever. I could have paid in cash I suppose, but I didn't have cash or a cheque. I assumed that he could take a credit card and he assumed I could pay via Venmo. The old world was not built on the same assumptions. 7-11 clerks had maps and phone books to lend because people got lost. I had a 'tab' at the local video-rental store! Newspapers published movie times and TV schedules. You had scheduled recurring meet-ups with friends and met new people at cafes. You actually talked to strangers. Those things, the societal support infrastructure needed to live a life without a smart phone, are slowly disappearing. We are building a society based on the assumption that EVERYONE has a smartphone. And to some extent these online services. I suspect that this is what people object to -- not having a choice. I get it, but the world waits for no one. But the great thing is that each of us gets to decide. Netflix still has a DVD service! Vinyl record sales are up! Print newspapers and magazines are still a thing! There are still libraries! You can still get landline phones! You can have a smartphone that you leave off unless you want to make a call! Not all of the old world is gone yet, you can integrate the old world with the new.
- tolbish 6y ago
  Your example has nothing to do with fast-changing times and has everything to do with tech companies monopolizing social media with zero regulation. The problem isn't that you need a smartphone now. The problem is that access to local businesses is now locked behind proprietary walled gardens.
  - olivertaylor 6y ago
    I disagree. It is the business owners who are requiring their customers to use social media, not the social media companies. That same business would just as easily only accept cash and not have any website or social media at all.
eggy 6y ago
I use the word 'acquaintance' a lot more to label people I have a passing relationship online, and not 'friend'. I have four or five real friends; the rest are acquaintances. Growing up without a TV or phone until I was 13, and then getting a Commodore PET in 1977/78 was a jump. Then GEnie online BBS in the late 80s, and ECHO (East Coast Hang Out) in the early to late nineties were my golden years. I quit FB over 5 years ago, and deleted my LinkedIn account. I still have too many distractions from emails and texts outside of my friends and family. I miss the days of going home on a Friday from work, and not having a beep, vibrate, or flash of an LED interrupting my weekend.
pid_0 6y ago
You can live without social media while still having a smartphone... its called discipline. Just don't use it, its that simple. I don't have facebook, insta, etc on my phone. I use my phone for learning, studying, conversations, videos, and things like GPS. Its just silly to give up a smartphone because you can't control yourself.
ChrisArchitect 6y ago
what's this '99 thing about tho: in 1999 there was a degree of social media as in forums, ICQ, AIM, geocities, angelfire sites, usenet and mailing lists. It wasn't that disconnected as maybe 3-4 years earlier.
wackget 6y ago
"Download" an article about technological freedom? In a non-free format (PDF) via a third-party provider (Gumroad)? Uh... absolutely not.
mickotron 6y ago
Early 2020 I installed grapheneos on my phone. It had the awesome side effect of not allowing me to install social media apps. I mean, you really can if you want to, but why would you? I explained to my Facebook friends that I was leaving and why, and that they can get in touch via sms, email, or signal. I had left Facebook before in the early 2010s for a few years, but had been back for a few years. I found most people did not want to interact outside Facebook messenger. It has been really hard to get people to migrate over to signal. Even my family chat is no longer used on signal, even though they all have signal and I created the group, they prefer Facebook. Businesses and even government use Facebook day to day for services and information. It really annoys me because it excludes us people not on that service. It is so presumptuous to assume that everyone is on Facebook. And its really dangerous to think that it should be a prerequisite for participating in the real world. I really enjoy not participating in the "fake life" rat race. Some people may not report this phenomenon in their feeds, but as a guy in early 30s, its a common thread. Even if people don't consciously do it, it seems that is the accepted way to interact and post about life events. The reflex of taking a photo firstly to share with others online, to change how they perceive you. I did not enjoy all the aspects of how social media was influencing how we interact with our peers, so I quit. I would love a secure decentralised social media option. Where I can post and others can subscribe, not matter their client or service. I wish that businesses and governments can do the same, and I don't have to be on Facebook to receive information about Covid vaccine rollout.

94 points by betaman0 6y ago

A lot of the things he figured change doesn't seemed to be an effect of social media, rather the social groups he belonged to. I'm not on most of the platform he described, and are barely reachable on the ones that are, have almost no friend group that chats constantly. I still happily use a smartphone for a lot of things, no 'hey if you want to communicate to me you'll have to install this new app'. Sounds like exporting the problem to someone else whereas one can just wean off the addictive part of those apps without actually deleting them.

the_only_law 6y ago

I’ve thought about it. It would be kinda cool to be able to give up the distractions and just switch to a feature phone. Unfortunately I have some unusual circumstances that make me dependent on them for general day to day activities.

ricardobayes 6y ago

I have been doing the same and it's been great. While I have a smartphone, I don't have a data plan and don't carry it with me when I'm out. I only use it for 2fa.

decafbad 6y ago

Wrote as a blog article and put on a Reddit-like site.

ttt0 6y ago
A personal blog is not social media and HN arguably is not social media either, as it doesn't even have basic social networking functionality like private messages.

paul7986 6y ago

Just a beeper and driving to the nearest pay phone to call the person who beeped you (circa '94 to '99).

rhn_mk1 6y ago
To the nearest what?
- paul7986 6y ago
  yes ... prior to the early 2000s there use to be a thing called a pay phone.. in the 90s as teen you surely didnt have your own cellphone. You had a beeper possibly or after 18 to 20 you or your friends.. definitely someone had a beeper that you use to beep someone to give them a call. If you were out and about you drove to the nearest pay phone (.25 per call).
  - rhn_mk1 6y ago
    The joke was that they barely exist any more. Maybe at some bigger train stations.
reaperducer 6y ago
Both of those things still exist lol
bdamm 6y ago
IIRC most people had cells by 1999, just not smartphones. One used their phone to call people. Certainly that was the case by 2003 but I think that was also true of 1999.
- paul7986 6y ago
  In 1999 if you were a teen you most likely did not have a cellphone..18 to 24 you might have had a cellphone. Email (hotmail) and AIM (AOL Messenger) was used extensively.
- 6y ago

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

Something I'd really like to try, should the right product ever come along, is going smartwatch-only. No smartphone. Most of the things that I really need a phone for, I should be able to do from a watch. Making calls and listening to music shouldn't be a problem, and voice dictation is sufficient for short messages. Anything longer and more in-depth can and should wait until I'm at a computer.

offtop5 6y ago

Even though he's just advertising a newsletter. He's right. Make friends in real life, meet partners via your social life. Don't waste time hopping on Facebook to envy people you don't even know. A big part of my maturing was to stop comparing myself. Everyone starts at a different place, and everyone is at a different place. Someone who say dealt with homelessness as a teenager can be happy to rent half a room at 22. he or she doesn't have to compare themselves to a Facebook new grad with a 200k TC offer.

dgellow 6y ago
> Make friends in real life, meet partners via your social life What social life do you have during a global pandemic? Where I'm located everything is shut down since December and won't reopen before some still-not-determined date next month. I'm glad I was already in a stable relationship covid, otherwise I wouldn't know how to have contacts with people in real life in the current situation.
- offtop5 6y ago
  One of my neighbors just introduced me to low level arduno programing. Hoping to work on more projects with him in the future. Reached out to a girl I meet while traveling in Europe a few years back , she responded so we'll see what happens. 2019 was absurdly good for me. Had a few amazing partners , but this only happened because I deleted my social media. I'm fine with taking a year or two off.

john2010 6y ago

FTA > A trick I’ve developed, when giving my contact info to new people, is to enter my phone number on their smartphone myself, and install Signal for them. Glad to know. Edit: I meant - who allow this?

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Whatever your opinions on Signal, I'd be a little miffed if someone installed an app on my phone without my permission. (Although, I'm also pretty sure iOS won't even let you do that without my fingerprint...)

aphextron 6y ago

I've always said we peaked at the technology level of the late 90s. We had everything we needed, and none of the BS; cell phones, e-mail, instant messaging, SMS, file sharing, blogs, forums, and broadband internet were all widespread at that point. Everything since has just been layers of monetized, corporate controlled, walled garden crap that has objectively ruined society and turned the techno-utopian dreams we had then into a dystopic Orwellian nightmare.

ricardobayes 6y ago
Unfortunately, couldn't agree more. We need more cancel culture in tech.
hattmall 6y ago
So how do we get it back?
- thesuitonym 6y ago
  Give everyone you want to talk to your phone number, then delete all of your social media accounts, for a start.
icedchai 6y ago
Yes, I always thought this as well, but was not sure if it was influenced by me feeling nostalgic for the 90's...
- Shared404 6y ago
  I was not around enough in the 90's to have nostalgia, but looking back at history I have to agree.
zeroonetwothree 6y ago
Blogging wasn’t really widespread until ~2001-2002
goodoldneon 6y ago

JKCalhoun 6y ago

Raises some interesting points, then replaces the smart phone with more devices. Sure, solved the privacy issue by essentially cutting the network cord. But needing a special watch+GPS to navigate? I was hoping he was all in and would revert to paper maps. I remember, being new in town, plotting my destination on a paper map before setting out — but recording the instructions ("Turn left on El Camino..." into one of those small digital recorders (think 1995) so I could drive without having to consult the map. That's about the level of tech I was expecting. Myself, I would prefer to live like it's "79. The CB radio was sort of peak technology as far as I'm concerned.

cratermoon 6y ago
10-4, Rubber Duck.

miguelmurca 6y ago

> A trick I’ve developed, when giving my contact info to new people, is to enter my phone number on their smartphone myself, and install Signal for them. don't... do that. don't install stuff on anyone's phone unless they've told you to.

miguelmota 6y ago
Completely agree. And doesn’t installing apps require the owner’s face id or password?
- athorax 6y ago
  Depends how you have it configured on android at least, if the phone is unlocked already you can install from the play store w/o additional permissions unless it is a paid app
- gruez 6y ago
  Even on ios it's technically not required. You only need touchid/faceid/password to add the app to your account. Afterwards you can freely install without additional authentication.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    I suppose, but you'd need to have downloaded Signal previously.
TameAntelope 6y ago
Yeah, this will immediately stop me from wanting to further engage with you if you do this. It's kind of ironic how little respect for someone else's privacy this behavior exhibits, considering the intent.
stronglikedan 6y ago
Who the heck would even hand over their phone to someone just to get a phone number?

calvinmorrison 6y ago

I ditched all my social media after being a lifelong user. The biggest noticeable change for me is I suddenly forgot most of these random 'online' friends and don't think about them at all anymore! If I'm not willing to pick up the phone or text somebody, I don't interact with them - that's it. I find I have more boredom, which is a good thing. I was quite bored as a kid and had to make do with my own devices. So I've been reading more, I even picked up some hobby programming outside of my job which I haven't done in years! The only place I still comment is actually hacker news!

ccsnags 6y ago
Same. HN is the best but even this was something I found from a random face to face in a hotel lobby. I have gotten most of my friends off of the social media feeds. All of them have seen benefits and a couple have seen such a drastic change that they equate it to taking an antidepressant.
- calvinmorrison 6y ago
  The benefit of the internet is that for niche subjects you can always find friends. The stupid part of social media is that many of those niche groups ended up using facebook/twitter/etc as a SSO/single place to discuss those things. But you don't need to - that niche can still exist. I use forums, email and IRC for those ends, so the internet still remains useful for me, for now.
sumtechguy 6y ago
When I was younger I tried every new internet service I could get ahold of. I however now do not add in new services unless they have been around a bit. They also must have some actual tangible benefit to my life. I have also removed a lot of the 'popup' services. These are the ones that like to notify you every 3 seconds about something. They beg for attention like a broken Tamagotchi. In my mid 30s I realized my monetary problems are fairly 'steady state' and not a big headache anymore. But what I do lack is time. Smartphones have an issue as most of the models of revenue for them are internet 'freemium'/'advert supported'. What I realized is that stuff had started to take up a significant amount of my time. Time I needed for other things. If you let these things in you will find yourself consumed by them. Every last one looking for engagement. I cut out all major news sources for the same reasons. They were attention machines that did not a thing to really improve my life. So given those conditions. My smart phone is ancient by tech standards. Has a very small handful of applications. My laptop desktop is setup with whatever the designer thought was a decent idea for the version of the OS I am using. Things I stay away from are social media, fermium games, or news. All three of those are little more than disguised skinner boxes. That try to make me feel good about myself but do not actually do that. Another annoying thing is no one really seems to want to sell you things anymore. They want to sell you a service. Then one day 'poof' that service is gone. I no longer have the cool utility anymore, and many times a pile of expensive paper weights. So I avoid any service where their pitch is 'it costs less than a cup of coffee per month'. If I have gone through the trouble to make your thing part of my life I do not want it suddenly 'going away' either by upgrade or bankruptcy. So I try to find better alternatives that will stick around.

UI_at_80x24 6y ago

Hey Millenials, or Gen-Z'ers: A world existed before you came around. 1986-1992: BBS's, newsgroups 1992-today: IRC, NNTP, and IM clients There existed ways to be social long before FaceBook/IG/Reddit/et al. were around. And if you squint you can even see the skeleton of those other platforms in the things you use today. If I were to live today like I did in 1999: My (online) social groups were a close knit family of people that shared similar interests. Half of whom lived on the other side of the planet. I typed with them daily, and had close relationships. Everything I see on Facebook/IG is vapid, and meaningless. Nothing but fakeness and trying to impress strangers. FFS 1999 is post 'Eternal September'. Had the article been dated 1979 I might have tolerance for this intentional ignorance.

srndsnd 6y ago
As a millennial (25), I disagree with the notion that all of Facebook and Instagram are vapid and meaningless. To me, that just shows that you're not curating your feeds in a manner that highlights what good remains on the platforms. The problem to me is not that people are less willing to participate, but that the platforms have consumed all meaningful discussion. I'm a part of some fantastic niche groups on Facebook, follow insightful people on Twitter, and read many fantastic subreddits. I've led book clubs, played board games, and developed deep, meaningful relationships via these platforms. They problem is they have been consumed in the monolith of likes and cat pictures, and pulling the value out is growing more difficult. It's a matter of continually chopping back the vines (cutting /r/funny and /r/worldnews out of reddit, deleting friends you don't care about and unliking fan pages on Facebook). My internet social groups are still the same as yours are. We just have different mediums through which we communicate.
- toast0 6y ago
  > As a millennial (25), I disagree with the notion that all of Facebook and Instagram are vapid and meaningless. To me, that just shows that you're not curating your feeds in a manner that highlights what good remains on the platforms. I don't know about Instagram, but Facebook will put vapid garbage into your feed if you've curated it down enough. 'You might be interested in ...' because they don't want to have a stale feed when your friends aren't doing anything. Disclosure: I worked at Facebook, as part of an aquisition; however, I never worked on or with the feed team.

sparrish 6y ago

Blogging like it's 2006

karaterobot 6y ago

> They all had my phone number, email address and other ways of contacting me. However, none of them did. It was like I had exited the matrix, and was living in another reality. Definitely experienced this. People didn't think I was dead, but they had this weird mental block where, at least at first, they couldn't think of how to contact me except on social media. They did eventually figure it out.

fuball63 6y ago

Here's a story: I use a Blackberry 10 device, have for the past 6 years. So I'm half in/half out of smartphone ownership. I can browse websites in the browser (the web's made this much harder to do of recent) but apps are out of the question. I was extolling the virtues of my ways to a friend on a business trip to Denver. I have everything I need, nothing I don't. I can call, text, browse some sites. I have balance, I have minimalism, I have peace. Then we decided to take a bus trip to Boulder. When we arrived at the station, there was no teller, and you had to install an app to buy a ticket. I sheepishly asked him to buy my ticket, and I paid him back in cash (no Venmo for BB10), and felt like a thorough and proper asshole. I still have my BB10 phone.

lubesGordi 6y ago
That sucks man. I'd actually love for this thread to document different situations where a smartphone was basically a necessity.
Cd00d 6y ago
Thank you. It's refreshing to see someone embrace humility. Good, sincere story.
jhbadger 6y ago
I know there are things like this, but I don't think they should be allowed. Not everyone has a smartphone. Many elderly people don't. Many poor people don't. Many disabled people don't. Yes, having the option to bypass human interaction using a phone should be allowed, but to make travel dependent on having a smartphone is insane. It's like those websites for signing up for the Covid vaccine ignoring that a lot of elderly people have no idea what that even means.
- calvinmorrison 6y ago
  I rented a U-Haul recently to pick up furniture. I reserved a 1/2 truck online. Upon arriving I entered the office and said I had a reservation. He then asked me to fill out a form on my phone. Then when I returned the vehicle I went in to drop off the keys. I had to take photos and fill out a form, again on a phone. The whole system was geared for 'easy' 'seamless' pickup, but it was much more difficult then renting a car a decade ago. They eliminated a cost of having more than one useless employee by making the customer do all the work. Totally infuriating and a horrible experience.

nbzso 6y ago

I use my phone for phone calls and banking apps - if necessary. For work is email, slack and Kanboard on my own Linode instance. There is nothing I miss about social networks. Nothing. Less distractions. Less emotional impact from the network. Last year deleted my Linkedin profile. Replaced Google with Duck and Bing. Gmail is only for junk. Avoiding Amazon where is possible. Don't plan to buy new shit from Apple either. After my current computer dies I am moving to Linux/KDE and plan to never look back. Never felt so calm and clear-minded. Highly recommend the FAANG detox.

joduplessis 6y ago

> nor do I miss its endless group talks without anything useful Much of human communication is useless (on the surface). > A trick I’ve developed, when giving my contact info to new people, is to enter my phone number on their smartphone myself, and install Signal for them Pretty invasive. Also where I started thinking maybe the author just preferred for everyone to be on their medium of choice (rather than they be on somebody else's medium of choice).

jefurii 6y ago
> Much of human communication is useless (on the surface). Yep. It's called phatic expression (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phatic_expression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phatic_expression). No information content but sends important social signals.

miguelmota 6y ago

Social media used to be fun 10 years ago. Twitter was a fun place with fun people when I started using it in 2009. Now social media has turned into a platform for misinformation, contrarians, and ‘gotcha’ folks.

zeroonetwothree 6y ago
Maybe it has more to do with you getting older than the platform changing
- skeeter2020 6y ago
  It's probably due to more adoption by the masses has dramatically altered the tribalism, sense of community and significantly changed the content & usage. It is definitely elitist, but I miss an internet that required some effort if you wished to participate. It has been a net gain for the world, but probably a loss for most of the people here.
- geraldcombs 6y ago
  I can't speak for the GP, but Facebook became much less fun about a year ago when anti-mask disinformation started flooding in and I realized it was going to kill a lot of people. I haven't been on FB since then.

ManBlanket 6y ago

I deleted my Facebook a decade ago and just recently got a message on LinkedIn from an old friend from high school. I guess he still runs into my mom sometimes but he was always afraid to ask her about me because he thought I might, "be in jail or something". Wow dude hopefully you don't always go 0-100 like that. Nah, I have a beautiful wife, 3 kids, and a fulfilling career building software. I don't need to stroke my ego any more than I already do. Nobody does. We had a meaningful exchange of emails and that was the end of it. To be honest I'd ditch the smart phone too if it wasn't for how useful google photos is, not to mention maps when you're on vacation. Frankly I miss i9. Writing text messages without looking at the phone. Imagine how great it would be these days with the guessing algorithms.

mywittyname 6y ago
I've never had a facebook account and sometimes I wonder what people think. Most of my friends just take it as me being [imitates Kramer] out there. But I suppose it is possible that there are people from my past that might think I'm dead or something.
- jefurii 6y ago
  You could self-host a web page that has enough keywords that people from various phases of your life could find you if they googled, and then a contact form or whatever.

goodoldneon 6y ago

Masterclass in irony: complain about a lack of privacy and then require an email address to read the full article

rthomas6 6y ago
No it doesn't. I just clicked free download and it worked.

alexshendi 6y ago

Was anyone else reminded of "Tonight we're gonna party, like it's 1999"? Anyway all of e. g. Usenet, mailing lists, and BBSes had their fair share of noise and toxicity.

jhbadger 6y ago

The "When phones had wires, humans were free" idea ignores that back in the day when the phone rang, you'd stop whatever you were doing and answer it. There was no Caller ID, no voice mail. You picked up the phone not knowing if this was an important work call, a social call from a friend or relative, or somebody trying to sell you something. Yes, a mobile phone means you can be contacted anywhere, but on the flip side you are free to ignore it, safe in knowing that you'll miss nothing of importance. People will leave a message, or at least you can see who called.

rthomas6 6y ago
Mobile phones didn't invent caller ID and answering machines...
- skinnymuch 6y ago
  I don’t recall caller ID being ubiquitous in 99. Answering machines had good penetration though.
  - rthomas6 6y ago
    I was 12 in 99, so my memory isn't great on this, but I remember having it around then. It could have been a few years later, though. I seem to recall that you had to pay extra for it, so most people didn't bother.
    - nonameiguess 6y ago
      Caller ID was first trialed in the consumer market in 1984. Hell, the first patent was filed for it in 1969. The international standard was defined in 1993. It's been around longer than people remember. Plus, we had *69 in the 90s.
    - skinnymuch 6y ago
      Perhaps my family was poorer than average at that point. I saw others on HN saying cell phones were getting ubiquitous in 99 too. I only recall one or two adults around me having a cell during that time.

pgtan 6y ago

reminds me of JPod (and jPod)

seniorThrowaway 6y ago

Like most technology I think the key is to interact with smartphones and social media on your terms as much as possible. I'm not willing to totally ditch social media because it is the only way I communicate with some people who I still want to communicate with. The compromise I've come up with is I installed facebook messenger lite on my smartphone, but I won't install the full facebook app. This lets people contact me but lets me choose when I interact with the news feed, I find their mobile browser version works just fine to include my occasional post or upload. In general I find using the smartphone as a works anywhere web browser to be the tradeoff that is best for me, I try to avoid installing apps as much a possible for privacy and annoyance reasons. I also run as much privacy software as possible and only use a phone brand that allows a road warrior VPN setup so I can route my traffic through a network that has additional privacy protections. This does take effort but so does anything else that gives you any degree of privacy from surveillance capitalism.

ctime 6y ago

I agree with no Social Media, but not having a Smartphone seems really too much. My cell phone allows me to instantly communicate with my family members, know their exact whereabouts, monitor my home security and energy usage etc. Using it for super helpful driving directions (Waze or gmaps) and decidedly 21st century technologies like Instacart have been game changers. When I'm dropped (pre-covid) into another country, my service (tmobile) just "works" and often times my phone is preconfigured for the local transit system app (or just "works", due to NFC e.g. Suica in JP or Oystercard in London). Not to mention all the online and offline media (Netflix etc) that is almost endless these days. I would never go back to the bad old days of T9 Nokias by comparison. I'm not a fan of social media, annoying notifications or interruptions and have them mostly turned off. If someone 'really' wants to interrupt, they can call. That's fine.

taylodl 6y ago
I don't have any Social Media apps installed on my phone. I access them only from a browser running on my laptop. Not having the apps always with me everywhere I go has improved my privacy and prevents mindless engagement. This has been working very well for me.

stryan 6y ago

>We’ve reached a dangerous level in society where people are afraid of human interaction, refusing a phone call because it makes them interact more humanly and with less control. >Texting gives you more reflection on what you’re gonna say than a real and instant conversation That's..not the conclusion I would have pulled from that. Seems far more likely people prefer to text over call because texting allows them to continue on with their day while calling requires them to give up a certain amount of time and interrupts what they're currently doing. Millennials are supposedly very phone-shy (something I can anecdotally confirm) yet I've never seen anyone barring the pandemic I don't think they're any less likely to engage in in-person human interaction, which doesn't fit this conclusion about phones. Long phone calls, especially over cell phones due to comfort and latency issues, are uncomfortable.

rjsw 6y ago

Have never owned a smartphone, did have a Facebook account for a week before deleting it.

motohagiography 6y ago

The one device I would like would be an e-paper Signal and Matrix messenger with a physical keyboard and without a camera, a form factor not unlike early blackberry devices.

naebother 6y ago

I wonder if social media would be more bearable without the invention/normalization of smartphones (iPhone style phones). Or vice-versa. It's the combination of the two I find most annoying about modern life.

olivertaylor 6y ago

The problem with opting out of these things is just how much our modern society relies on them, in very practical ways. There's a local business (great croissants) that closes on random days (the owner is French) and the only place they publish that information is Instagram. You walk to the store and there's no note, nothing on their website, no-one answering the phone, but on Instagram they've been warning their customers for days. I just got a haircut and after the cut was done he told me their credit card processor was down so I had to pay via venmo or whatever. I could have paid in cash I suppose, but I didn't have cash or a cheque. I assumed that he could take a credit card and he assumed I could pay via Venmo. The old world was not built on the same assumptions. 7-11 clerks had maps and phone books to lend because people got lost. I had a 'tab' at the local video-rental store! Newspapers published movie times and TV schedules. You had scheduled recurring meet-ups with friends and met new people at cafes. You actually talked to strangers. Those things, the societal support infrastructure needed to live a life without a smart phone, are slowly disappearing. We are building a society based on the assumption that EVERYONE has a smartphone. And to some extent these online services. I suspect that this is what people object to -- not having a choice. I get it, but the world waits for no one. But the great thing is that each of us gets to decide. Netflix still has a DVD service! Vinyl record sales are up! Print newspapers and magazines are still a thing! There are still libraries! You can still get landline phones! You can have a smartphone that you leave off unless you want to make a call! Not all of the old world is gone yet, you can integrate the old world with the new.

tolbish 6y ago
Your example has nothing to do with fast-changing times and has everything to do with tech companies monopolizing social media with zero regulation. The problem isn't that you need a smartphone now. The problem is that access to local businesses is now locked behind proprietary walled gardens.
- olivertaylor 6y ago
  I disagree. It is the business owners who are requiring their customers to use social media, not the social media companies. That same business would just as easily only accept cash and not have any website or social media at all.

eggy 6y ago

I use the word 'acquaintance' a lot more to label people I have a passing relationship online, and not 'friend'. I have four or five real friends; the rest are acquaintances. Growing up without a TV or phone until I was 13, and then getting a Commodore PET in 1977/78 was a jump. Then GEnie online BBS in the late 80s, and ECHO (East Coast Hang Out) in the early to late nineties were my golden years. I quit FB over 5 years ago, and deleted my LinkedIn account. I still have too many distractions from emails and texts outside of my friends and family. I miss the days of going home on a Friday from work, and not having a beep, vibrate, or flash of an LED interrupting my weekend.

pid_0 6y ago

You can live without social media while still having a smartphone... its called discipline. Just don't use it, its that simple. I don't have facebook, insta, etc on my phone. I use my phone for learning, studying, conversations, videos, and things like GPS. Its just silly to give up a smartphone because you can't control yourself.

ChrisArchitect 6y ago

what's this '99 thing about tho: in 1999 there was a degree of social media as in forums, ICQ, AIM, geocities, angelfire sites, usenet and mailing lists. It wasn't that disconnected as maybe 3-4 years earlier.

wackget 6y ago

"Download" an article about technological freedom? In a non-free format (PDF) via a third-party provider (Gumroad)? Uh... absolutely not.

mickotron 6y ago

Early 2020 I installed grapheneos on my phone. It had the awesome side effect of not allowing me to install social media apps. I mean, you really can if you want to, but why would you? I explained to my Facebook friends that I was leaving and why, and that they can get in touch via sms, email, or signal. I had left Facebook before in the early 2010s for a few years, but had been back for a few years. I found most people did not want to interact outside Facebook messenger. It has been really hard to get people to migrate over to signal. Even my family chat is no longer used on signal, even though they all have signal and I created the group, they prefer Facebook. Businesses and even government use Facebook day to day for services and information. It really annoys me because it excludes us people not on that service. It is so presumptuous to assume that everyone is on Facebook. And its really dangerous to think that it should be a prerequisite for participating in the real world. I really enjoy not participating in the "fake life" rat race. Some people may not report this phenomenon in their feeds, but as a guy in early 30s, its a common thread. Even if people don't consciously do it, it seems that is the accepted way to interact and post about life events. The reflex of taking a photo firstly to share with others online, to change how they perceive you. I did not enjoy all the aspects of how social media was influencing how we interact with our peers, so I quit. I would love a secure decentralised social media option. Where I can post and others can subscribe, not matter their client or service. I wish that businesses and governments can do the same, and I don't have to be on Facebook to receive information about Covid vaccine rollout.