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> Training Makes Runners More Efficient, but Not Cyclists I could see this being true for road bikers... but any XCO, CXO, or Enduro rider depends heavily on t

> Training Makes Runners More Efficient, but Not Cyclists I could see this being true for road bikers... but any XCO, CXO, or Enduro rider depends heavily on training for: * Finding efficient body position for climbing * Weight shifting/wheel unloading while crossing features * Discovery efficiency gains in pedal cadence for terrain, slope, camber I did a cross country race last July. I started mountain biking in March (guess why). I was in great cardiovascular shape from being a rower and my legs were it great shape too. However, I've already surpassed what I could during that hour of all-out effort by a large margin by learning to do the above skills efficiently. Even a year later I keep breaking my own records. Pretty crazy, I know I'll reach a plateau eventually but for an amateur that plain is quite high.

TimD1 6y ago
Agreed. I would wager that in any sport where technique is important/difficult (swimming, nordic skiing, and to a lesser extent running), efficiency will improve over time, even for elite athletes.
dahart 6y ago
Yes. The article has a very narrow focus on strictly the muscular efficiency of a pedal stroke. That makes it sound like it's suggesting that novice cyclists can easily be as good as expert cyclists, and that the benefits of training are limited. The article isn't talking about muscle mass nor rider skills at all, but it doesn't try too hard to clarify that.
jsperson 6y ago
A few years ago I took an XC clinic from a pro woman mountain biker. A big focus was on descending. On one particular hill she got down first - MINUTES ahead of me (the first student). This was on a descent where there was basically no pedaling. She did this to us all day. During that season I won a local mens cat 2 race series. I was no slouch, but she destroyed us. All technique.
- DenisM 6y ago
  Did you hear about the guy who won a downhill race after losing his chain out of the gate? Mountain biking is a lot closer to mountain skiing than it is to race biking - very little locomotion, a whole lot of body balancing. https://www.bicycling.com/racing/a20022483/video-aaron-gwin-loses-chain-wins-downhill-race-anyway/ https://www.bicycling.com/racing/a20022483/video-aaron-gwin-...
  - mft_ 6y ago
    One anecdote. Most DH races involve a lot of hard pedalling.
- medium_burrito 6y ago
  For road biking as well- though a lot of it is many people are afraid of a 23mm contact patch being the only thing between them and going off a cliff in the Alps!
indymike 6y ago
Even for road riders, there is a huge difference between a stationary bike and a road bike. The changes aren't as pronounced xco, but your ability to hold a line, adjust cadence for wind and slope, and position your body to deal with turns, road conditions (never hit a pot hole with a stationary bike).
- exabrial 6y ago
  Ycombinator 2022 idea: Peleton that simulates potholes and throws you off randomly
DenisM 6y ago
How did you train for all that? I feel like I waste a lot of energy on climbs, but I can't quite figure out why. Could use some help.
- nradov 6y ago
  Why do you think you waste a lot of energy on climbs? For most riders, climbing speed is based on your power to weight ratio. So the easiest way to waste less energy is simply to reduce body fat.
  - DenisM 6y ago
    I often observe that I am he slowest climber on the mountain, but I do not think I am the least fit. There's a good chance it's the technique.
    - nradov 6y ago
      There's not a huge amount of technique to climbing, it's mostly power to weight ratio. Do you have a power meter and have you done an FTP test? One technique you can practice is calibrating your effort level in terms of watts or heart rate to the length of the climb. You need to get a feel for the maximum output you can sustain without getting gassed before you reach the summit.
      - DenisM 6y ago
        I don’t have a power meter, but for the purpose of pacing I might get away with just the hr? I’ve always been bad with pacing myself, so that looks to be the lowest hanging fruit.
        exabrial 6y ago
        Yep, HR can tell you a lot (power meters are pricey, but indeed are the best option). If your HR rises too quick you're likely off pace however though. Another thing you can do is thinking of saving some gas in the tank for the last bit of the climb where you'll sprint as you summit. Start with this in mind at the bottom

TimD1 6y ago

Agreed. I would wager that in any sport where technique is important/difficult (swimming, nordic skiing, and to a lesser extent running), efficiency will improve over time, even for elite athletes.

dahart 6y ago

Yes. The article has a very narrow focus on strictly the muscular efficiency of a pedal stroke. That makes it sound like it's suggesting that novice cyclists can easily be as good as expert cyclists, and that the benefits of training are limited. The article isn't talking about muscle mass nor rider skills at all, but it doesn't try too hard to clarify that.

jsperson 6y ago

A few years ago I took an XC clinic from a pro woman mountain biker. A big focus was on descending. On one particular hill she got down first - MINUTES ahead of me (the first student). This was on a descent where there was basically no pedaling. She did this to us all day. During that season I won a local mens cat 2 race series. I was no slouch, but she destroyed us. All technique.

DenisM 6y ago
Did you hear about the guy who won a downhill race after losing his chain out of the gate? Mountain biking is a lot closer to mountain skiing than it is to race biking - very little locomotion, a whole lot of body balancing. https://www.bicycling.com/racing/a20022483/video-aaron-gwin-loses-chain-wins-downhill-race-anyway/ https://www.bicycling.com/racing/a20022483/video-aaron-gwin-...
- mft_ 6y ago
  One anecdote. Most DH races involve a lot of hard pedalling.
medium_burrito 6y ago
For road biking as well- though a lot of it is many people are afraid of a 23mm contact patch being the only thing between them and going off a cliff in the Alps!

indymike 6y ago

Even for road riders, there is a huge difference between a stationary bike and a road bike. The changes aren't as pronounced xco, but your ability to hold a line, adjust cadence for wind and slope, and position your body to deal with turns, road conditions (never hit a pot hole with a stationary bike).

exabrial 6y ago
Ycombinator 2022 idea: Peleton that simulates potholes and throws you off randomly

DenisM 6y ago

How did you train for all that? I feel like I waste a lot of energy on climbs, but I can't quite figure out why. Could use some help.

nradov 6y ago
Why do you think you waste a lot of energy on climbs? For most riders, climbing speed is based on your power to weight ratio. So the easiest way to waste less energy is simply to reduce body fat.
- DenisM 6y ago
  I often observe that I am he slowest climber on the mountain, but I do not think I am the least fit. There's a good chance it's the technique.
  - nradov 6y ago
    There's not a huge amount of technique to climbing, it's mostly power to weight ratio. Do you have a power meter and have you done an FTP test? One technique you can practice is calibrating your effort level in terms of watts or heart rate to the length of the climb. You need to get a feel for the maximum output you can sustain without getting gassed before you reach the summit.
    - DenisM 6y ago
      I don’t have a power meter, but for the purpose of pacing I might get away with just the hr? I’ve always been bad with pacing myself, so that looks to be the lowest hanging fruit.
      - exabrial 6y ago
        Yep, HR can tell you a lot (power meters are pricey, but indeed are the best option). If your HR rises too quick you're likely off pace however though. Another thing you can do is thinking of saving some gas in the tank for the last bit of the climb where you'll sprint as you summit. Start with this in mind at the bottom