5 ms·

It's the full pattern. Does anyone think the USA actually cares about central asian muslims? With our record and the records of our allies? Or is this coming

It's the full pattern. Does anyone think the USA actually cares about central asian muslims? With our record and the records of our allies? Or is this coming from collective anxiety over being eclipsed?

totalZero 6y ago
I think the USA (taken as an aggregate of its citizens' views) has a far stronger ethical compass than your comment seems to suggest. So to answer your question, yes to the former question. Maybe yes to the latter question too, but as an "and" not an "or".
- ncann 6y ago
  There seems to be a disconnect between what the US says and what it does. I certainly believe US people have a strong ethical compass in their world view, at least from the people I interact with and what I read every day. At the same time, with all the things the US does, especially in the middle East, it's hard to take that "moral compass" seriously.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Is there any country where there isn’t a strong disconnect between what they say and what they do? I mean, that’s kind of a human thing.
  - dependsontheq 6y ago
    There is no right way and ethical way to do things in the Middle East - there is just the weird unsolvable status quo and weird things the US or anyone else can do - which might not actually have an effect on anything. I understand the criticism but I never read a book that showed a path forward.
    - marksbrown 6y ago
      Nobody dragged the US into the middle East. Why is there anything to do beyond acting as honest broker diplomatically?
      - totalZero 6y ago
        > Nobody dragged the US into the middle East. Not sure that's a true statement.
      - dependsontheq 6y ago
        I'm european (English/German) I am quite happy that the US is in the Middle East...otherwise we all would have to be. I see no chance that the Middle East becomes a nice peaceful place between the Saudis, Iran, Israel and Turkey (all others are just puppets). I am not sure what an honest broker would do, I am not sure that anybody in the relevant parties wants an honest broker. No question there have been terrible mistakes that cost an enormous amount of human suffering. I am not quite sure that the situation would be much different in another world. If the US had not invaded Iraq...would Iraq now be a stable happy country? No, why would it be?
    - meowface 6y ago
      Drone strikes that kill far more civilians than intended targets are pretty cut-and-dry unethical, IMO. I'm not necessarily ethically opposed to assassination. But better to let 1000 terrorists and murderers live than to kill one innocent person. Assassinations should be done with pistols and poison, not explosives.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    You have to compare it to what everyone else does in the Middle East. Israel kills Iranians, Iran sponsors militants in Lebanon and Yemen, Saudi butchers Saudis...pick a counterfactual (Saddam's Iraq? Taliban-controlled Afghanistan?) and compare that counterfactual to US activity.
- krageon 6y ago
  The US as an aggregate of it's citizens' views must be viewed through the lens of it's leadership. From their actions, we can see it doesn't have an ethical compass at all. Unless of course you mean this in the most absolute sense, where there is an ethical judgement being made about drone strikes on children and it is thought to be acceptable.
powerapple 6y ago
The American people may care, and it is money to drive American people to think in the direction money planned. If you think the media is on your side, think again. Think Iraq, all the evidence of WMD

totalZero 6y ago

I think the USA (taken as an aggregate of its citizens' views) has a far stronger ethical compass than your comment seems to suggest. So to answer your question, yes to the former question. Maybe yes to the latter question too, but as an "and" not an "or".

ncann 6y ago
There seems to be a disconnect between what the US says and what it does. I certainly believe US people have a strong ethical compass in their world view, at least from the people I interact with and what I read every day. At the same time, with all the things the US does, especially in the middle East, it's hard to take that "moral compass" seriously.
- refurb 6y ago
  Is there any country where there isn’t a strong disconnect between what they say and what they do? I mean, that’s kind of a human thing.
- dependsontheq 6y ago
  There is no right way and ethical way to do things in the Middle East - there is just the weird unsolvable status quo and weird things the US or anyone else can do - which might not actually have an effect on anything. I understand the criticism but I never read a book that showed a path forward.
  - marksbrown 6y ago
    Nobody dragged the US into the middle East. Why is there anything to do beyond acting as honest broker diplomatically?
    - totalZero 6y ago
      > Nobody dragged the US into the middle East. Not sure that's a true statement.
    - dependsontheq 6y ago
      I'm european (English/German) I am quite happy that the US is in the Middle East...otherwise we all would have to be. I see no chance that the Middle East becomes a nice peaceful place between the Saudis, Iran, Israel and Turkey (all others are just puppets). I am not sure what an honest broker would do, I am not sure that anybody in the relevant parties wants an honest broker. No question there have been terrible mistakes that cost an enormous amount of human suffering. I am not quite sure that the situation would be much different in another world. If the US had not invaded Iraq...would Iraq now be a stable happy country? No, why would it be?
  - meowface 6y ago
    Drone strikes that kill far more civilians than intended targets are pretty cut-and-dry unethical, IMO. I'm not necessarily ethically opposed to assassination. But better to let 1000 terrorists and murderers live than to kill one innocent person. Assassinations should be done with pistols and poison, not explosives.
- totalZero 6y ago
  You have to compare it to what everyone else does in the Middle East. Israel kills Iranians, Iran sponsors militants in Lebanon and Yemen, Saudi butchers Saudis...pick a counterfactual (Saddam's Iraq? Taliban-controlled Afghanistan?) and compare that counterfactual to US activity.
krageon 6y ago
The US as an aggregate of it's citizens' views must be viewed through the lens of it's leadership. From their actions, we can see it doesn't have an ethical compass at all. Unless of course you mean this in the most absolute sense, where there is an ethical judgement being made about drone strikes on children and it is thought to be acceptable.

powerapple 6y ago

The American people may care, and it is money to drive American people to think in the direction money planned. If you think the media is on your side, think again. Think Iraq, all the evidence of WMD