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> There are fewer women in tech, because fewer women choose to study STEM in college. Why do you think there are fewer women who choose to study STEM? Anecdot

by wfme 6y ago

> There are fewer women in tech, because fewer women choose to study STEM in college. Why do you think there are fewer women who choose to study STEM? Anecdotally, they often don't end up studying STEM subjects because they're encouraged to focus on other subjects in high school.

jimbokun 6y ago
> Anecdotally, they often don't end up studying STEM subjects because they're encouraged to focus on other subjects in high school. Definitely citation needed, there are countless "Women in STEM" initiatives, almost begging girls to go into STEM fields.
- wfme 6y ago
  Sure: https://www.pwc.co.uk/women-in-technology/women-in-tech-report.pdf https://www.pwc.co.uk/women-in-technology/women-in-tech-repo... > What’s clear is that there’s a vicious circle of perception and reality in terms of gender imbalance. And that schools, universities and industry are failing to show young people – and especially girls – the realities of technology jobs and careers in today’s world. > Despite such exciting opportunities, girls aren’t considering technology as a career – partly because nobody is putting it forward as a possible option. While 33% of male respondents say they’ve had a career in technology suggested to them, the figure for females is only 16% – a glaring lack of advice that’s helping to reinforce the stereotype of a male dominated industry.
  - jimbokun 6y ago
    > Our research shows that their main reasons for not choosing to study STEM topics include: being better or gaining better grades in humanities or other essay based subjects; not finding STEM subjects as interesting; STEM subjects not being relevant to the career they plan to choose; teachers not making STEM subjects appealing; and the need to get the highest possible grade, as this influences both university entrance and future career options. So even this slide deck points to a difference in interests and aptitudes as a key driving factor in women focusing less on STEM careers.
  - jimbokun 6y ago
    > In term of the latter, women are more involved with healthcare than men – accounting for 77% of NHS employees8 – and, according to research from the US9 females make 80% of buying decisions about healthcare products and services. Why are the authors of these slides not equally concerned with the under representation of men in health care?
    - DanBC 6y ago
      When we talk about sexism in the workplace people will often say "it's a pipeline problem" -- we don't see women leaders because there aren't enough women juniors to apply for those positions. > women are more involved with healthcare than men – accounting for 77% of NHS employees Why are women under-represented in senior leadership positions in the NHS?
      - jimbokun 6y ago
        I don't know, but the original topic was whether women are actively discouraged from studying technology and pushed towards other fields by high school educators. There seems to be some evidence girls and women are picking other fields over technology due to their personal interests and talents. The question of men disproportionately filling higher level roles within organizations is a separate question, and seems to affect other industries in addition to technology.
  - jimbokun 6y ago
    > 31% of males have learned about technology from their own research, against only 12% of females. So a lot of male interest in technology is self driven. This is a slide deck trying to show women are being unfairly denied a technology career, but then goes on to give a lot of evidence most of the discrepancy is due to self selection.
Dirlewanger 6y ago
Because men and women aren't as equal as everyone likes to think. And here's the best part: that's OK! It's OK to admit that men are better at some things than women, and vice versa. There's a reason why the men went out on the hunting trips and the women stayed back at the village to take care of the village children: it kept everyone alive. I contend that there may still be some forces in some industries that try to subvert efforts at more women in them, but those are few and far between. With the gender earnings gap already proven to be bullshit (and if anything, in tech, women are getting paid more simply because companies want to fill diversity quotas), we need to stop wasting time fighting amongst ourselves and focusing effort on real, actual problems. Workers divided over petty shit like this is what the rich and powerful want.
- zapdrive 6y ago
  > men are better at some things than women You are a Misogynistic man. /s
- ju_sh 6y ago
  better != equal
frongpik 6y ago
There's a simpler explanation. Stem is all about persistent laser focused attention on specific measurable things, and females are less inclined to like this activity.
- tovej 6y ago
  It really amazes me how otherwise smart people are ready to just dismiss researched knowledge for their own intuition when it comes to gender issues. EDIT: if it's unclear, this refers to the immediate parent of this comment.
- ju_sh 6y ago
  Can you back this up with anything other than your own misogyny?
  - frongpik 6y ago
    Don't forget my racism.
ju_sh 6y ago
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38061313_Men_and_Things_Women_and_People_A_Meta-Analysis_of_Sex_Differences_in_Interests https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38061313_Men_and_Th... "The present study makes several important contributions to the literature. First, it is the first comprehensive meta-analysis on sex differences in vocational interests. We synthesized evidence from interest inventories over four decades and found large sex differences in vocational interests, with men preferring working with things and women preferring working with people. These sex differences are remarkably consistent across age and over time, providing an exception to the generalization that only small sex differences exist. Second, this study provides a systematic review of the sex differences in the STEM interests that has not previously appeared in the literature. The pattern of sex differences in theSTEM interests revealed by the present study closely resembles the composition of men and women in corresponding occupations and contributes to the understanding of the gender disparity in theSTEM fields. The results suggest that the relatively low numbers of women in some fields of science and engineering may result from women’s preference for people-oriented careers over things-oriented careers"

by wfme 6y ago

jimbokun 6y ago

> Anecdotally, they often don't end up studying STEM subjects because they're encouraged to focus on other subjects in high school. Definitely citation needed, there are countless "Women in STEM" initiatives, almost begging girls to go into STEM fields.

wfme 6y ago
Sure: https://www.pwc.co.uk/women-in-technology/women-in-tech-report.pdf https://www.pwc.co.uk/women-in-technology/women-in-tech-repo... > What’s clear is that there’s a vicious circle of perception and reality in terms of gender imbalance. And that schools, universities and industry are failing to show young people – and especially girls – the realities of technology jobs and careers in today’s world. > Despite such exciting opportunities, girls aren’t considering technology as a career – partly because nobody is putting it forward as a possible option. While 33% of male respondents say they’ve had a career in technology suggested to them, the figure for females is only 16% – a glaring lack of advice that’s helping to reinforce the stereotype of a male dominated industry.
- jimbokun 6y ago
  > Our research shows that their main reasons for not choosing to study STEM topics include: being better or gaining better grades in humanities or other essay based subjects; not finding STEM subjects as interesting; STEM subjects not being relevant to the career they plan to choose; teachers not making STEM subjects appealing; and the need to get the highest possible grade, as this influences both university entrance and future career options. So even this slide deck points to a difference in interests and aptitudes as a key driving factor in women focusing less on STEM careers.
- jimbokun 6y ago
  > In term of the latter, women are more involved with healthcare than men – accounting for 77% of NHS employees8 – and, according to research from the US9 females make 80% of buying decisions about healthcare products and services. Why are the authors of these slides not equally concerned with the under representation of men in health care?
  - DanBC 6y ago
    When we talk about sexism in the workplace people will often say "it's a pipeline problem" -- we don't see women leaders because there aren't enough women juniors to apply for those positions. > women are more involved with healthcare than men – accounting for 77% of NHS employees Why are women under-represented in senior leadership positions in the NHS?
    - jimbokun 6y ago
      I don't know, but the original topic was whether women are actively discouraged from studying technology and pushed towards other fields by high school educators. There seems to be some evidence girls and women are picking other fields over technology due to their personal interests and talents. The question of men disproportionately filling higher level roles within organizations is a separate question, and seems to affect other industries in addition to technology.
- jimbokun 6y ago
  > 31% of males have learned about technology from their own research, against only 12% of females. So a lot of male interest in technology is self driven. This is a slide deck trying to show women are being unfairly denied a technology career, but then goes on to give a lot of evidence most of the discrepancy is due to self selection.

Dirlewanger 6y ago

Because men and women aren't as equal as everyone likes to think. And here's the best part: that's OK! It's OK to admit that men are better at some things than women, and vice versa. There's a reason why the men went out on the hunting trips and the women stayed back at the village to take care of the village children: it kept everyone alive. I contend that there may still be some forces in some industries that try to subvert efforts at more women in them, but those are few and far between. With the gender earnings gap already proven to be bullshit (and if anything, in tech, women are getting paid more simply because companies want to fill diversity quotas), we need to stop wasting time fighting amongst ourselves and focusing effort on real, actual problems. Workers divided over petty shit like this is what the rich and powerful want.

zapdrive 6y ago
> men are better at some things than women You are a Misogynistic man. /s
ju_sh 6y ago
better != equal

frongpik 6y ago

There's a simpler explanation. Stem is all about persistent laser focused attention on specific measurable things, and females are less inclined to like this activity.

tovej 6y ago
It really amazes me how otherwise smart people are ready to just dismiss researched knowledge for their own intuition when it comes to gender issues. EDIT: if it's unclear, this refers to the immediate parent of this comment.
ju_sh 6y ago
Can you back this up with anything other than your own misogyny?
- frongpik 6y ago
  Don't forget my racism.

ju_sh 6y ago

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38061313_Men_and_Things_Women_and_People_A_Meta-Analysis_of_Sex_Differences_in_Interests https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38061313_Men_and_Th... "The present study makes several important contributions to the literature. First, it is the first comprehensive meta-analysis on sex differences in vocational interests. We synthesized evidence from interest inventories over four decades and found large sex differences in vocational interests, with men preferring working with things and women preferring working with people. These sex differences are remarkably consistent across age and over time, providing an exception to the generalization that only small sex differences exist. Second, this study provides a systematic review of the sex differences in the STEM interests that has not previously appeared in the literature. The pattern of sex differences in theSTEM interests revealed by the present study closely resembles the composition of men and women in corresponding occupations and contributes to the understanding of the gender disparity in theSTEM fields. The results suggest that the relatively low numbers of women in some fields of science and engineering may result from women’s preference for people-oriented careers over things-oriented careers"