9 ms·

I hope the kids won't mind having to declare/pay US taxes :)

by tonfa 6y ago

blunte 6y ago
What you get for your US tax money is absolutely not worth having that passport if you have another good passport. I would give that one up (and likely will once I get my second).
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Plenty of expats have gotten more US stimulus cheques than they’ve paid in US taxes. But it doesn’t make up for the dozens of hours of paperwork and careful tip-toeing on investments and other garbage. Just an FYI: one hiccup I heard of giving up your US citizenship is that banks didn’t recognize you could be born in USA but not a US citizen.
  - kingosticks 6y ago
    > Just an FYI: one hiccup I heard of giving up your US citizenship is that banks didn’t recognize you could be born in USA but not a US citizen. I had this issue just last month with a UK financial institution (Raisin). I tried to explain it but they obviously were not interested. I actually still have my citizenship (I'd love to renounce but that's currently impossible) but I felt it was worth pointing out their policy was unnecessarily discriminative.
    - rolandog 6y ago
      Not to mention, that there are countries that ask you to renounce your other citizenships when taking theirs (Dutch citizenship comes to mind).
    - mikhailfranco 6y ago
      Their responsibilities under FINCEN/FATCA are not prove anything, but just have suspicion or some reason to think you might be a "US Person" (not just US citizen, but US resident, or various other special situations). Of course, the US claims to extra-territorial jurisdiction, and bullying of global financial institutions to enforce their crazy inter-planetary tax system, are totally preposterous. Elon - renounce before blast-off!
  - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
    When opening accounts in the EU you are asked if you are a US citizen. You then answer no and that's all, they do not check further. There may be a check against the form element "place of birth" but I doubt so.
- maximente 6y ago
  like anything in life, there are tradeoffs. the US passport is great because it allows easy employment access to US tech companies, who pay absurd amounts of money; if you live outside the US for at least 330 days, you aren't taxed federally on the first $105K or so. this allows one to, for example, work 20-30 hrs/week while paying zero federal income taxes to take home around $105K. compare that to NYC: you'd need about $160K to take home $105K (!!), plus your post tax costs aro going to be high as hell - rent, restaurants, and so forth. worse, you're probably pulling 45ish hrs a week for that. i imagine SF is similar or worse. such a setup allows one to build wealth and live an extraordinary life. i'd highly recommend it if you can swing it.
  - hospes 6y ago
    > US passport is great because it allows easy employment access to US tech companies, who pay absurd amounts of money; US companies don't pay absurd amounts of money, companies in other countries are the once that don't pay enough. Look at how much wealth tech industry has generated (and still is) for the US companies and the US economy, I think they should pay even more.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- kblev 6y ago
  Can't comment on how the taxes are spent but having US citizenship can give you access to their job market, in tech this can be a valuable benefit. Op's kids will be able to renounce their citizenship should they wish.
stefan_ 6y ago
And hopefully they won't ever need a European bank account, or any other kind of financial service. All I ever signed up for, besides asking for citizenship, also explicitly asked for having US citizenship. Presumably checking that box is the immediate end of the application process.
- 1996 6y ago
  With a Swiss passport and the place of birth being Switzerland, nobody will ever ask them. If they are asked if they have other citizenship, they can always say Germany - end of the inquiry.
  - stefan_ 6y ago
    That's the point. The question is specifically US citizenship because of the onerous reporting requirements it ensues that none of them want to deal with.
  - sangnoir 6y ago
    Banks ask everyone during application if applicant have a US citizenship, because of some anti-terror-funding law which non-American banks find onerous. Are you saying the kids should lie and deny being American?
    - nix23 6y ago
      >Are you saying the kids should lie and deny being American? No, you just don't have to say it, you have a swiss passport and that's it.
    - Grazester 6y ago
      It's not about anti terrorism measures. It about fatca https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-...
      - charlesdm 6y ago
jahewson 6y ago
Switzerland has a tax treaty with the US which avoids double-taxation. https://sigtax.com/en/switzerland-united-states-tax-treaty https://sigtax.com/en/switzerland-united-states-tax-treaty
- tonfa 6y ago
  Yes, most countries do so you're not double taxed. But you still need to declare, and esp. for Switzerland likely pay extra taxes to the US.
  - tim333 6y ago
    The UK has a tax treaty with the US but it didn't stop one Boris Johnson being hit with many thousands in US taxes when he sold his house in spite of having lived in the UK most of his life.
    - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
      Was his house in the US or UK? If it was in the US the it doesn't matter, the local government is gonna get theirs.
      - tim333 6y ago
        In the UK. The UK has no cgt on your main residence when you sell but the US does.

I hope the kids won't mind having to declare/pay US taxes :)

by tonfa 6y ago

I hope the kids won't mind having to declare/pay US taxes :)

What you get for your US tax money is absolutely not worth having that passport if you have another good passport. I would give that one up (and likely will once I get my second).

Scoundreller 6y ago
Plenty of expats have gotten more US stimulus cheques than they’ve paid in US taxes. But it doesn’t make up for the dozens of hours of paperwork and careful tip-toeing on investments and other garbage. Just an FYI: one hiccup I heard of giving up your US citizenship is that banks didn’t recognize you could be born in USA but not a US citizen.
- kingosticks 6y ago
  > Just an FYI: one hiccup I heard of giving up your US citizenship is that banks didn’t recognize you could be born in USA but not a US citizen. I had this issue just last month with a UK financial institution (Raisin). I tried to explain it but they obviously were not interested. I actually still have my citizenship (I'd love to renounce but that's currently impossible) but I felt it was worth pointing out their policy was unnecessarily discriminative.
  - rolandog 6y ago
    Not to mention, that there are countries that ask you to renounce your other citizenships when taking theirs (Dutch citizenship comes to mind).
  - mikhailfranco 6y ago
    Their responsibilities under FINCEN/FATCA are not prove anything, but just have suspicion or some reason to think you might be a "US Person" (not just US citizen, but US resident, or various other special situations). Of course, the US claims to extra-territorial jurisdiction, and bullying of global financial institutions to enforce their crazy inter-planetary tax system, are totally preposterous. Elon - renounce before blast-off!
- BrandoElFollito 6y ago
  When opening accounts in the EU you are asked if you are a US citizen. You then answer no and that's all, they do not check further. There may be a check against the form element "place of birth" but I doubt so.
maximente 6y ago
like anything in life, there are tradeoffs. the US passport is great because it allows easy employment access to US tech companies, who pay absurd amounts of money; if you live outside the US for at least 330 days, you aren't taxed federally on the first $105K or so. this allows one to, for example, work 20-30 hrs/week while paying zero federal income taxes to take home around $105K. compare that to NYC: you'd need about $160K to take home $105K (!!), plus your post tax costs aro going to be high as hell - rent, restaurants, and so forth. worse, you're probably pulling 45ish hrs a week for that. i imagine SF is similar or worse. such a setup allows one to build wealth and live an extraordinary life. i'd highly recommend it if you can swing it.
- hospes 6y ago
  > US passport is great because it allows easy employment access to US tech companies, who pay absurd amounts of money; US companies don't pay absurd amounts of money, companies in other countries are the once that don't pay enough. Look at how much wealth tech industry has generated (and still is) for the US companies and the US economy, I think they should pay even more.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
kblev 6y ago
Can't comment on how the taxes are spent but having US citizenship can give you access to their job market, in tech this can be a valuable benefit. Op's kids will be able to renounce their citizenship should they wish.

stefan_ 6y ago

And hopefully they won't ever need a European bank account, or any other kind of financial service. All I ever signed up for, besides asking for citizenship, also explicitly asked for having US citizenship. Presumably checking that box is the immediate end of the application process.

1996 6y ago
With a Swiss passport and the place of birth being Switzerland, nobody will ever ask them. If they are asked if they have other citizenship, they can always say Germany - end of the inquiry.
- stefan_ 6y ago
  That's the point. The question is specifically US citizenship because of the onerous reporting requirements it ensues that none of them want to deal with.
- sangnoir 6y ago
  Banks ask everyone during application if applicant have a US citizenship, because of some anti-terror-funding law which non-American banks find onerous. Are you saying the kids should lie and deny being American?
  - nix23 6y ago
    >Are you saying the kids should lie and deny being American? No, you just don't have to say it, you have a swiss passport and that's it.
  - Grazester 6y ago
    It's not about anti terrorism measures. It about fatca https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-...
    - charlesdm 6y ago

jahewson 6y ago

Switzerland has a tax treaty with the US which avoids double-taxation. https://sigtax.com/en/switzerland-united-states-tax-treaty https://sigtax.com/en/switzerland-united-states-tax-treaty

tonfa 6y ago
Yes, most countries do so you're not double taxed. But you still need to declare, and esp. for Switzerland likely pay extra taxes to the US.
- tim333 6y ago
  The UK has a tax treaty with the US but it didn't stop one Boris Johnson being hit with many thousands in US taxes when he sold his house in spite of having lived in the UK most of his life.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
    Was his house in the US or UK? If it was in the US the it doesn't matter, the local government is gonna get theirs.
    - tim333 6y ago
      In the UK. The UK has no cgt on your main residence when you sell but the US does.