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> iOS is a walled garden ... MacOS is not. Technically, that is true. But it is getting there. Apple makes more money, and importantly recurring revenue, from

> iOS is a walled garden ... MacOS is not. Technically, that is true. But it is getting there. Apple makes more money, and importantly recurring revenue, from its services now than selling its hardware. The move to ARM processors is one of their strategic moves to further "close" their desktop platforms too. The only reason they don't do it outright right now is because they know people like you and me will immediately abandon the platform if we are stuck with only macOS and can only install everything from the App store. But we would be fools to ignore that the noose is tightening and, with M1 you are now stuck with macOS (unlike the older macs). The next iterations will close it down further ...

amelius 6y ago
Yes, Apple fans seem to be forgetting that the ones in power at Apple are business people, who care as much about customers as any other company. And being business people they don't have sympathy for developers either and in fact would rather see their power reduced. In their best scenario, all developers become low-wage employees but without the benefit of employees. A bit like Uber drivers.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  How on earth does this make "business sense"? You can't sell $10,000 Mac Pros and $6,000 displays with a neutered operating system. Nobody is buying the 16" MacBook Pro if they can only buy apps in the App Store. Overnight they would lose pretty much every (non-iOS) developer, most video editors, every podcaster and audio engineer, most photographers, every single scientist, most engineers, mathematicians, and many artists... That would be an absolutely fantastic pitch in a management meeting. Who is left, accountants... teachers? A few schools? Not only would this be a massive hit to the Mac... likely lethal, it would also be a massive blow to iOS. Because much like every other developer on the planet iOS developers lean heavily on tools which cannot ever be found in the App Store like git, Python, Ruby (required for CocoaPods), and a million other Unix tools. This has to be one of the most bone-headed, yet commonly repeated bits of anti-Mac nonsense out there.
  - amelius 6y ago
    You seem to be assuming that everything which makes business sense is also good for the customer.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      There is zero reason Apple would do what you suggest. You haven’t provided one, you just assume if you utter the phrase “Business Sense” enough that people will agree with you. shrug There is zero sense or logic in these assertions, business or otherwise. It’s baseless nonsense.
ogre_codes 6y ago
> But it is getting there. Yes, the line I've been hearing for the past 15 years or so. Meanwhile Homebrew still works, I can still install non-App Store Apps, and Apple is publishing directions on how to install non-MacOS operating systems. Literally the single difference their "Closing the platform" has made in my life has been getting prompted for permission to open various directories and services on the platform and much of that can be disabled. > But we would be fools to ignore that the noose is tightening and, with M1 you are now stuck with macOS (unlike the older Macs). Are we on the same conversation here? Did you read the article? Or the similar ones about people loading Linux on the M1? This is literally a thread about people who followed Apple's documentation on how to install a different OS on the M1 Macs.

amelius 6y ago

Yes, Apple fans seem to be forgetting that the ones in power at Apple are business people, who care as much about customers as any other company. And being business people they don't have sympathy for developers either and in fact would rather see their power reduced. In their best scenario, all developers become low-wage employees but without the benefit of employees. A bit like Uber drivers.

ogre_codes 6y ago
How on earth does this make "business sense"? You can't sell $10,000 Mac Pros and $6,000 displays with a neutered operating system. Nobody is buying the 16" MacBook Pro if they can only buy apps in the App Store. Overnight they would lose pretty much every (non-iOS) developer, most video editors, every podcaster and audio engineer, most photographers, every single scientist, most engineers, mathematicians, and many artists... That would be an absolutely fantastic pitch in a management meeting. Who is left, accountants... teachers? A few schools? Not only would this be a massive hit to the Mac... likely lethal, it would also be a massive blow to iOS. Because much like every other developer on the planet iOS developers lean heavily on tools which cannot ever be found in the App Store like git, Python, Ruby (required for CocoaPods), and a million other Unix tools. This has to be one of the most bone-headed, yet commonly repeated bits of anti-Mac nonsense out there.
- amelius 6y ago
  You seem to be assuming that everything which makes business sense is also good for the customer.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    There is zero reason Apple would do what you suggest. You haven’t provided one, you just assume if you utter the phrase “Business Sense” enough that people will agree with you. shrug There is zero sense or logic in these assertions, business or otherwise. It’s baseless nonsense.

ogre_codes 6y ago

> But it is getting there. Yes, the line I've been hearing for the past 15 years or so. Meanwhile Homebrew still works, I can still install non-App Store Apps, and Apple is publishing directions on how to install non-MacOS operating systems. Literally the single difference their "Closing the platform" has made in my life has been getting prompted for permission to open various directories and services on the platform and much of that can be disabled. > But we would be fools to ignore that the noose is tightening and, with M1 you are now stuck with macOS (unlike the older Macs). Are we on the same conversation here? Did you read the article? Or the similar ones about people loading Linux on the M1? This is literally a thread about people who followed Apple's documentation on how to install a different OS on the M1 Macs.