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Being a us dual citizen has the disadvantage of continuing to owe income tax to the USA even while living in Europe. Also many international banks cringe at op

Being a us dual citizen has the disadvantage of continuing to owe income tax to the USA even while living in Europe. Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” because it exposes them to a lot of onerous requirements. Can make banking somewhat a pain.

cambalache 6y ago
> Being a us dual citizen has the disadvantage of continuing to owe income tax to the USA I think it is for any income above 100k/year (the amount could have changed), if you are in that bracket is a nice problem to have > Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” I live in a country with many American expats, none of them have had any problem whatsoever to access to banking services, including opening accounts
- refurb 6y ago
  That tends to be the deciding factor. If you live somewhere with many US expats, the banks are usually willing to jump through hoops to get you as a customer. If you’re a one-off for them they may just say “no”.
- culturestate 6y ago
  > I live in a country with many American expats, none of them have had any problem whatsoever to access to banking services, including opening accounts It depends on the bank. Any bank doing business internationally is usually fine because they probably already have a robust compliance mechanism in place, but a lot of local banks will just straight-up say no because they don't want to be subjected to FBAR / FATCA.
  - davchana 6y ago
    True, in middle east, local banks were not happy to hear that I had SSN & US residency.
- Brajeshwar 6y ago
  Recently, I read an article -- Why 'Accidental Americans' Are Desperate to Give Up Their U.S. Citizenship -- https://time.com/5922972/accidental-americans-fatca/ https://time.com/5922972/accidental-americans-fatca/
disabled 6y ago
There are obscene penalties for improper reporting of foreign bank accounts via FATCA regulations, even if you made a prudent attempt of doing so in your US income taxes. Due to this, you always have to use a CPA as a form of insurance when filing US income taxes abroad. You must have a bank account in Croatia, for example, to get various things done with Croatian government bureaucracy. Generally speaking, some German and Austrian banks will do business with American citizens. It is important to be gracious and patient, as FATCA is a huge pain. There is a Foreign Earned Income Exclusion on US income tax returns. For 2020 it is $107,600, and for 2021 it is $108,700. Obviously investments are another story. But, many Americans abroad do not have to pay US income taxes, but they do have to file them. In the US, with good health insurance benefits through a large employer, my out-of-pocket costs were around $25,000-$30,000/year. Even if I paid US taxes on top of the European taxes, it is not the worst thing in the world: I never have to worry about being cared for here, and the doctors have a lot more time for me here, and can follow my case better. I also require an orphan drug to stay alive, which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in the US, typically covered by insurance, but not guaranteed. So, I could always end up with an obscene bill in the mail. (It has happened before and I have been lucky to get off the hook.)
- refurb 6y ago
  I’m surprised your OOP was that high with “good benefits”. I work outside of tech for a Fortune 500 and my premiums are $1200 per year with a max OOP of $2500. Unless a plan is grandfathered in, the ACA limits OOP to ~$9k per year. https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/ https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-li...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - disabled 6y ago
    It was for a Fortune 500 company, historically ranked in the top 10. The monthly premium was ~$950/month with a yearly out-of-pocket of $9,000. Yearly premium liability: ($950/month)*(12 months/year)= $11,400/year Out-of-Pocket liability: $9,000/year So, the minimum healthcare liability that I theoretically have in the US (which is never the case for me), every year, is: Yearly Premium Liability + Out-of-Pocket Liability = $20,400/year However, I also have other uncovered medical expenses, encountered thanks to insurance issues. I literally generated well over 100 claims per year on medical insurance alone, so it was not like I never had uncovered expenses. Obviously you fight it, and you never give up, because that is what the providers expect you to do. However, there are a lot of situations that are just unwinnable. In reality, my yearly healthcare liability in the US was closer to $30,000/year.
benhurmarcel 6y ago
> Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” A lot of banks just straight out refuse it. Especially the ones with the lowest fees.
- audiometry 6y ago
  Yes, this is my experience. Especially for things like investment accounts.

cambalache 6y ago

> Being a us dual citizen has the disadvantage of continuing to owe income tax to the USA I think it is for any income above 100k/year (the amount could have changed), if you are in that bracket is a nice problem to have > Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” I live in a country with many American expats, none of them have had any problem whatsoever to access to banking services, including opening accounts

refurb 6y ago
That tends to be the deciding factor. If you live somewhere with many US expats, the banks are usually willing to jump through hoops to get you as a customer. If you’re a one-off for them they may just say “no”.
culturestate 6y ago
> I live in a country with many American expats, none of them have had any problem whatsoever to access to banking services, including opening accounts It depends on the bank. Any bank doing business internationally is usually fine because they probably already have a robust compliance mechanism in place, but a lot of local banks will just straight-up say no because they don't want to be subjected to FBAR / FATCA.
- davchana 6y ago
  True, in middle east, local banks were not happy to hear that I had SSN & US residency.
Brajeshwar 6y ago
Recently, I read an article -- Why 'Accidental Americans' Are Desperate to Give Up Their U.S. Citizenship -- https://time.com/5922972/accidental-americans-fatca/ https://time.com/5922972/accidental-americans-fatca/

disabled 6y ago

There are obscene penalties for improper reporting of foreign bank accounts via FATCA regulations, even if you made a prudent attempt of doing so in your US income taxes. Due to this, you always have to use a CPA as a form of insurance when filing US income taxes abroad. You must have a bank account in Croatia, for example, to get various things done with Croatian government bureaucracy. Generally speaking, some German and Austrian banks will do business with American citizens. It is important to be gracious and patient, as FATCA is a huge pain. There is a Foreign Earned Income Exclusion on US income tax returns. For 2020 it is $107,600, and for 2021 it is $108,700. Obviously investments are another story. But, many Americans abroad do not have to pay US income taxes, but they do have to file them. In the US, with good health insurance benefits through a large employer, my out-of-pocket costs were around $25,000-$30,000/year. Even if I paid US taxes on top of the European taxes, it is not the worst thing in the world: I never have to worry about being cared for here, and the doctors have a lot more time for me here, and can follow my case better. I also require an orphan drug to stay alive, which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in the US, typically covered by insurance, but not guaranteed. So, I could always end up with an obscene bill in the mail. (It has happened before and I have been lucky to get off the hook.)

refurb 6y ago
I’m surprised your OOP was that high with “good benefits”. I work outside of tech for a Fortune 500 and my premiums are $1200 per year with a max OOP of $2500. Unless a plan is grandfathered in, the ACA limits OOP to ~$9k per year. https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/ https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-li...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- disabled 6y ago
  It was for a Fortune 500 company, historically ranked in the top 10. The monthly premium was ~$950/month with a yearly out-of-pocket of $9,000. Yearly premium liability: ($950/month)*(12 months/year)= $11,400/year Out-of-Pocket liability: $9,000/year So, the minimum healthcare liability that I theoretically have in the US (which is never the case for me), every year, is: Yearly Premium Liability + Out-of-Pocket Liability = $20,400/year However, I also have other uncovered medical expenses, encountered thanks to insurance issues. I literally generated well over 100 claims per year on medical insurance alone, so it was not like I never had uncovered expenses. Obviously you fight it, and you never give up, because that is what the providers expect you to do. However, there are a lot of situations that are just unwinnable. In reality, my yearly healthcare liability in the US was closer to $30,000/year.

benhurmarcel 6y ago

> Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” A lot of banks just straight out refuse it. Especially the ones with the lowest fees.

audiometry 6y ago
Yes, this is my experience. Especially for things like investment accounts.