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I am a dual citizen of the United States and Croatia (European Union citizen). I am culturally American, and I have spent the vast majority of my life in the US

I am a dual citizen of the United States and Croatia (European Union citizen). I am culturally American, and I have spent the vast majority of my life in the US. I left the US about a month before the lockdowns started. I have been living in Croatia for the past year. I can technically live/work/retire in any EU/EFTA country (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to having Freedom of Movement rights. In a lot of ways the world is my oyster. Being a dual citizen has some unique advantages: I can also work a US based job, remotely in the EU, completely legally. I have pretty severe health problems, so being able to work remotely in the EU for a US based company is a huge deal. I just have to get the US based employer to agree to use a payroll company as an intermediary to deal with payroll taxes. Obviously I forfeit EU workers' rights. But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society. I naturalized as Croatian only for the right to healthcare: I have 2 rare immune-mediated neurological diseases affecting my peripheral nervous system, which is in remission. I require many unusual treatments and medications, which are difficult to access in the US, for a variety of reasons. Some of these interventions are life-and-death.

audiometry 6y ago
Being a us dual citizen has the disadvantage of continuing to owe income tax to the USA even while living in Europe. Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” because it exposes them to a lot of onerous requirements. Can make banking somewhat a pain.
- cambalache 6y ago
  > Being a us dual citizen has the disadvantage of continuing to owe income tax to the USA I think it is for any income above 100k/year (the amount could have changed), if you are in that bracket is a nice problem to have > Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” I live in a country with many American expats, none of them have had any problem whatsoever to access to banking services, including opening accounts
  - refurb 6y ago
    That tends to be the deciding factor. If you live somewhere with many US expats, the banks are usually willing to jump through hoops to get you as a customer. If you’re a one-off for them they may just say “no”.
  - culturestate 6y ago
    > I live in a country with many American expats, none of them have had any problem whatsoever to access to banking services, including opening accounts It depends on the bank. Any bank doing business internationally is usually fine because they probably already have a robust compliance mechanism in place, but a lot of local banks will just straight-up say no because they don't want to be subjected to FBAR / FATCA.
    - davchana 6y ago
      True, in middle east, local banks were not happy to hear that I had SSN & US residency.
  - Brajeshwar 6y ago
    Recently, I read an article -- Why 'Accidental Americans' Are Desperate to Give Up Their U.S. Citizenship -- https://time.com/5922972/accidental-americans-fatca/ https://time.com/5922972/accidental-americans-fatca/
- disabled 6y ago
  There are obscene penalties for improper reporting of foreign bank accounts via FATCA regulations, even if you made a prudent attempt of doing so in your US income taxes. Due to this, you always have to use a CPA as a form of insurance when filing US income taxes abroad. You must have a bank account in Croatia, for example, to get various things done with Croatian government bureaucracy. Generally speaking, some German and Austrian banks will do business with American citizens. It is important to be gracious and patient, as FATCA is a huge pain. There is a Foreign Earned Income Exclusion on US income tax returns. For 2020 it is $107,600, and for 2021 it is $108,700. Obviously investments are another story. But, many Americans abroad do not have to pay US income taxes, but they do have to file them. In the US, with good health insurance benefits through a large employer, my out-of-pocket costs were around $25,000-$30,000/year. Even if I paid US taxes on top of the European taxes, it is not the worst thing in the world: I never have to worry about being cared for here, and the doctors have a lot more time for me here, and can follow my case better. I also require an orphan drug to stay alive, which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in the US, typically covered by insurance, but not guaranteed. So, I could always end up with an obscene bill in the mail. (It has happened before and I have been lucky to get off the hook.)
  - refurb 6y ago
    I’m surprised your OOP was that high with “good benefits”. I work outside of tech for a Fortune 500 and my premiums are $1200 per year with a max OOP of $2500. Unless a plan is grandfathered in, the ACA limits OOP to ~$9k per year. https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/ https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-li...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - disabled 6y ago
      It was for a Fortune 500 company, historically ranked in the top 10. The monthly premium was ~$950/month with a yearly out-of-pocket of $9,000. Yearly premium liability: ($950/month)*(12 months/year)= $11,400/year Out-of-Pocket liability: $9,000/year So, the minimum healthcare liability that I theoretically have in the US (which is never the case for me), every year, is: Yearly Premium Liability + Out-of-Pocket Liability = $20,400/year However, I also have other uncovered medical expenses, encountered thanks to insurance issues. I literally generated well over 100 claims per year on medical insurance alone, so it was not like I never had uncovered expenses. Obviously you fight it, and you never give up, because that is what the providers expect you to do. However, there are a lot of situations that are just unwinnable. In reality, my yearly healthcare liability in the US was closer to $30,000/year.
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  > Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” A lot of banks just straight out refuse it. Especially the ones with the lowest fees.
  - audiometry 6y ago
    Yes, this is my experience. Especially for things like investment accounts.
jo-m 6y ago
> I can also work a US based job, remotely in the EU, completely legally. You can also do that 100% legally as a non US citizen (I did), with the added advantage of not paying US taxes. You have to pay taxes and social security in the country where you reside, not where you are a citizen and/or work (mostly).
- disabled 6y ago
  In some countries, yes. This tends to be uncommon in the European Union. Croatia at the moment is a black sheep in the European Union, though, as it has an easy to get digital nomad visa: https://www.total-croatia-news.com/news/digital-nomads-in-croatia https://www.total-croatia-news.com/news/digital-nomads-in-cr... For the digital nomad visa in Estonia, for example, you need connections there to essentially get it. Czech Republic has a self-employment visa that allows you to work without formal business connections within the country, which is pretty unique among the European Union.
  - jo-m 6y ago
    But no country will forbid you to reside in it when you are a citizen of it, and work for a remote company. I think the misunderstanding here from my side was that with "dual citizenship" you meant "having an additional non US passport", but I understood it as "also having an US passport".
- soheil 6y ago
  Not true, US is one of the only countries that requires you to pay taxes no matter you live or where you work as long as you're a US citizen and alive the IRS requires you to pay income tax.
  - davchana 6y ago
    I think the other one is Eriteria.
  - jo-m 6y ago
    That was my point (although possibly poorly worded): in this particular instance, dual citizenship is not an advantage. Just being a citizen of Croatia would have been better.
vecinu 6y ago
> But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society. Can you please go on with this point and provide some 1-1 examples you've personally seen? I keep dreaming and have, for the last 5 years, about leaving the US and living in Europe but I feel like I'm throwing away an enormous economic opportunity by moving now. I have accumulated and will continue accumulating wealth that would be impossible to accumulate in any European country in my lifetime. I keep saying, one more year, just one more year and it seems to be a hamster wheel that never stops spinning. I'm afraid I'll wake up one day, after saying one more year, that I'm 50 years old with 2 kids and a life in the US that I'll have a harder time leaving behind.
- ornornor 6y ago
  > leaving the US and living in Europe but I feel like I'm throwing away an enormous economic opportunity Check out Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Lichtenstein. These places pay incredibly well and once you factor in the cost of healthcare and general quality of life, the US looks like a bad joke. These three countries’ job market is accessible with a Schengen visa.
  - tonfa 6y ago
    > These three countries’ job market is accessible with a Schengen visa. Is that true? I'd have assumed that EU citizens have access, but non-EU would need to apply specifically for FL/CH work permits. (and I'm not sure, is there actually a EU-wide work permit for non-EU? I had the impression that each country is still handling non-EU permit separately) (tourist visa are different of course)
    - ornornor 6y ago
      I don’t know about FL but for CH you do have to apply for a permit. However, if you have a job offer and an EU passport you basically just pay the fee for the permit and you’ll get it (usually for five years). And af r the five years you can either renew your work permit or apply for permanent residency. Same goes for CH nationals who want to work in the EU.
andrewmcwatters 6y ago
> But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society. I don’t know what it is about Europeans on American websites telling us how great it is to have 1/3 less PPP and higher taxes, but I sure as hell don’t want my taxes any higher. A grand total of none of my international friends have anywhere near the wealth, nor earning potential I do, and they never will. It’s an exceedingly large, compounding edge. American policy makers can’t even use our existing tax revenues in fiscally responsible ways as it is. Why would I vote for more taxation? Everyone knows our healthcare system is asinine. It doesn’t require more money to fix.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  > A grand total of none of my international friends have anywhere near the wealth, nor earning potential I do, and they never will. It’s an exceedingly large, compounding edge. That's because most of us are not obsessed with wealth. We tend to be satisfied with some level of comfort and security and focus on other things in life. I guess that's a cultural thing. > Everyone knows our healthcare system is asinine. It doesn’t require more money to fix. It's not only about health care, but other aspects such as how the society is structured, poverty, incarceration rates, access to education, homelessness, etc. Again, probably a cultural thing but Europeans seem to care more about these matters than Americans and so we structure and drive our politics and legislature towards addressing these issues.
  - josephg 6y ago
    During the covid crisis I’ve stopped telling my American friends about the situation here in Australia. There’s been some political mud throwing about which state managed it best - but we brought the numbers to zero, and have done it as a nation several times now. Since covid, talking to my friends in the USA about Australia feels like punching down. You might have more earning potential in the US, but I’d much rather make a bit less money and live in a country with a functioning healthcare system, a welfare system, a (mostly) functioning legislative branch, much less police violence and racial tension and less political polarisation. I just don’t feel anxious living here. No matter what happens I’ll be ok. In Australia you don’t need to be super rich in order to feel safe.
dualthro 6y ago
> being able to work remotely in the EU for a US based company is a huge deal. I just have to get the US based employer to agree to use a payroll company as an intermediary to deal with payroll taxes Can you expand on this point? Fellow US-EU dual citizen and cultural American here, looking to do the same thing, for similar health reasons.

audiometry 6y ago

Being a us dual citizen has the disadvantage of continuing to owe income tax to the USA even while living in Europe. Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” because it exposes them to a lot of onerous requirements. Can make banking somewhat a pain.

cambalache 6y ago
> Being a us dual citizen has the disadvantage of continuing to owe income tax to the USA I think it is for any income above 100k/year (the amount could have changed), if you are in that bracket is a nice problem to have > Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” I live in a country with many American expats, none of them have had any problem whatsoever to access to banking services, including opening accounts
- refurb 6y ago
  That tends to be the deciding factor. If you live somewhere with many US expats, the banks are usually willing to jump through hoops to get you as a customer. If you’re a one-off for them they may just say “no”.
- culturestate 6y ago
  > I live in a country with many American expats, none of them have had any problem whatsoever to access to banking services, including opening accounts It depends on the bank. Any bank doing business internationally is usually fine because they probably already have a robust compliance mechanism in place, but a lot of local banks will just straight-up say no because they don't want to be subjected to FBAR / FATCA.
  - davchana 6y ago
    True, in middle east, local banks were not happy to hear that I had SSN & US residency.
- Brajeshwar 6y ago
  Recently, I read an article -- Why 'Accidental Americans' Are Desperate to Give Up Their U.S. Citizenship -- https://time.com/5922972/accidental-americans-fatca/ https://time.com/5922972/accidental-americans-fatca/
disabled 6y ago
There are obscene penalties for improper reporting of foreign bank accounts via FATCA regulations, even if you made a prudent attempt of doing so in your US income taxes. Due to this, you always have to use a CPA as a form of insurance when filing US income taxes abroad. You must have a bank account in Croatia, for example, to get various things done with Croatian government bureaucracy. Generally speaking, some German and Austrian banks will do business with American citizens. It is important to be gracious and patient, as FATCA is a huge pain. There is a Foreign Earned Income Exclusion on US income tax returns. For 2020 it is $107,600, and for 2021 it is $108,700. Obviously investments are another story. But, many Americans abroad do not have to pay US income taxes, but they do have to file them. In the US, with good health insurance benefits through a large employer, my out-of-pocket costs were around $25,000-$30,000/year. Even if I paid US taxes on top of the European taxes, it is not the worst thing in the world: I never have to worry about being cared for here, and the doctors have a lot more time for me here, and can follow my case better. I also require an orphan drug to stay alive, which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in the US, typically covered by insurance, but not guaranteed. So, I could always end up with an obscene bill in the mail. (It has happened before and I have been lucky to get off the hook.)
- refurb 6y ago
  I’m surprised your OOP was that high with “good benefits”. I work outside of tech for a Fortune 500 and my premiums are $1200 per year with a max OOP of $2500. Unless a plan is grandfathered in, the ACA limits OOP to ~$9k per year. https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/ https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-li...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - disabled 6y ago
    It was for a Fortune 500 company, historically ranked in the top 10. The monthly premium was ~$950/month with a yearly out-of-pocket of $9,000. Yearly premium liability: ($950/month)*(12 months/year)= $11,400/year Out-of-Pocket liability: $9,000/year So, the minimum healthcare liability that I theoretically have in the US (which is never the case for me), every year, is: Yearly Premium Liability + Out-of-Pocket Liability = $20,400/year However, I also have other uncovered medical expenses, encountered thanks to insurance issues. I literally generated well over 100 claims per year on medical insurance alone, so it was not like I never had uncovered expenses. Obviously you fight it, and you never give up, because that is what the providers expect you to do. However, there are a lot of situations that are just unwinnable. In reality, my yearly healthcare liability in the US was closer to $30,000/year.
benhurmarcel 6y ago
> Also many international banks cringe at opening accounts with “us persons” A lot of banks just straight out refuse it. Especially the ones with the lowest fees.
- audiometry 6y ago
  Yes, this is my experience. Especially for things like investment accounts.

jo-m 6y ago

> I can also work a US based job, remotely in the EU, completely legally. You can also do that 100% legally as a non US citizen (I did), with the added advantage of not paying US taxes. You have to pay taxes and social security in the country where you reside, not where you are a citizen and/or work (mostly).

disabled 6y ago
In some countries, yes. This tends to be uncommon in the European Union. Croatia at the moment is a black sheep in the European Union, though, as it has an easy to get digital nomad visa: https://www.total-croatia-news.com/news/digital-nomads-in-croatia https://www.total-croatia-news.com/news/digital-nomads-in-cr... For the digital nomad visa in Estonia, for example, you need connections there to essentially get it. Czech Republic has a self-employment visa that allows you to work without formal business connections within the country, which is pretty unique among the European Union.
- jo-m 6y ago
  But no country will forbid you to reside in it when you are a citizen of it, and work for a remote company. I think the misunderstanding here from my side was that with "dual citizenship" you meant "having an additional non US passport", but I understood it as "also having an US passport".
soheil 6y ago
Not true, US is one of the only countries that requires you to pay taxes no matter you live or where you work as long as you're a US citizen and alive the IRS requires you to pay income tax.
- davchana 6y ago
  I think the other one is Eriteria.
- jo-m 6y ago
  That was my point (although possibly poorly worded): in this particular instance, dual citizenship is not an advantage. Just being a citizen of Croatia would have been better.

vecinu 6y ago

> But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society. Can you please go on with this point and provide some 1-1 examples you've personally seen? I keep dreaming and have, for the last 5 years, about leaving the US and living in Europe but I feel like I'm throwing away an enormous economic opportunity by moving now. I have accumulated and will continue accumulating wealth that would be impossible to accumulate in any European country in my lifetime. I keep saying, one more year, just one more year and it seems to be a hamster wheel that never stops spinning. I'm afraid I'll wake up one day, after saying one more year, that I'm 50 years old with 2 kids and a life in the US that I'll have a harder time leaving behind.

ornornor 6y ago
> leaving the US and living in Europe but I feel like I'm throwing away an enormous economic opportunity Check out Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Lichtenstein. These places pay incredibly well and once you factor in the cost of healthcare and general quality of life, the US looks like a bad joke. These three countries’ job market is accessible with a Schengen visa.
- tonfa 6y ago
  > These three countries’ job market is accessible with a Schengen visa. Is that true? I'd have assumed that EU citizens have access, but non-EU would need to apply specifically for FL/CH work permits. (and I'm not sure, is there actually a EU-wide work permit for non-EU? I had the impression that each country is still handling non-EU permit separately) (tourist visa are different of course)
  - ornornor 6y ago
    I don’t know about FL but for CH you do have to apply for a permit. However, if you have a job offer and an EU passport you basically just pay the fee for the permit and you’ll get it (usually for five years). And af r the five years you can either renew your work permit or apply for permanent residency. Same goes for CH nationals who want to work in the EU.

andrewmcwatters 6y ago

> But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society. I don’t know what it is about Europeans on American websites telling us how great it is to have 1/3 less PPP and higher taxes, but I sure as hell don’t want my taxes any higher. A grand total of none of my international friends have anywhere near the wealth, nor earning potential I do, and they never will. It’s an exceedingly large, compounding edge. American policy makers can’t even use our existing tax revenues in fiscally responsible ways as it is. Why would I vote for more taxation? Everyone knows our healthcare system is asinine. It doesn’t require more money to fix.

bitcharmer 6y ago
> A grand total of none of my international friends have anywhere near the wealth, nor earning potential I do, and they never will. It’s an exceedingly large, compounding edge. That's because most of us are not obsessed with wealth. We tend to be satisfied with some level of comfort and security and focus on other things in life. I guess that's a cultural thing. > Everyone knows our healthcare system is asinine. It doesn’t require more money to fix. It's not only about health care, but other aspects such as how the society is structured, poverty, incarceration rates, access to education, homelessness, etc. Again, probably a cultural thing but Europeans seem to care more about these matters than Americans and so we structure and drive our politics and legislature towards addressing these issues.
- josephg 6y ago
  During the covid crisis I’ve stopped telling my American friends about the situation here in Australia. There’s been some political mud throwing about which state managed it best - but we brought the numbers to zero, and have done it as a nation several times now. Since covid, talking to my friends in the USA about Australia feels like punching down. You might have more earning potential in the US, but I’d much rather make a bit less money and live in a country with a functioning healthcare system, a welfare system, a (mostly) functioning legislative branch, much less police violence and racial tension and less political polarisation. I just don’t feel anxious living here. No matter what happens I’ll be ok. In Australia you don’t need to be super rich in order to feel safe.

dualthro 6y ago

> being able to work remotely in the EU for a US based company is a huge deal. I just have to get the US based employer to agree to use a payroll company as an intermediary to deal with payroll taxes Can you expand on this point? Fellow US-EU dual citizen and cultural American here, looking to do the same thing, for similar health reasons.