5 ms·

Augmenting Human Intellect (1962)

109 points by _zhqs 6y ago

gjvc 6y ago
Thank you, Doug.
rektide 6y ago
> Can I get a raise of hands for folks who think "Dream Machines" is the #1 book on software? How about for those who believe that Engelbart's Augmenting Human Intellect is a driving force for humanity? And that software is a radical embodiment of that all? I think we can get a modest show of hands; I've seen enough confirming points of view from about. (Would that I have a memex to highlight all the mentions I've seen, all the other endorsements!) Me, about an hour ago[1], in the "How can you not be romantic about software?" discussion. Amusing to see Doug echoed back on HN so quickly. Small world! It's in reply to one of the most critical pieces of the thread, to me. The overarching article is somewhat fetishistic, just in to the wizardry of it all, the power, the skill. I was replying specifically to someone promoting the use of personal knowledge systems, to capture everything you are learning, to build a log & indexes. This, really, is the heart of what I find so romantic: this augmentative, compounding nature of software, of informatics. To gain heightened view points, and to make ourselves steersmen[2]. That thread included a shout out to Karli Coss, who has done more than anyone I've seen to draw together all the streams, to gather & create views of his own existence as it forms across the digital[2]. He's brought a wide range of software- from ebook readers to music players to web browsers- into his own domain, to build his extended brain. Karli has augmented his intellect far further than anyone else. There's a lot of compelling things about software, a lot of ways to have fun. But of the ways to be romantic about programming, Augmenting Human Intellect is the most profound & resounding romantic notions that I have ever encountered. I see so many people engaged in software, but this seems like the core of where almost all real true meaning lives, and we should reshape our focus, abandon so much software, to chase an integrative, augmentative vision of computing in pursuit of this romance. We should be inspired, as Doug was. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26208453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26208453 [3] https://github.com/karlicoss/HPI#whats-inside https://github.com/karlicoss/HPI#whats-inside
- gjvc 6y ago
  i do not believe in the romantic part, but the Englebart vision and direction is what computers are for; everything else, while perhaps once praiseworthy, has become a diabolical local maxima.
jarmitage 6y ago
My favourite part is still the 'demo' of tying a brick to a pen to prove the power of augmentation via de-augmentation
- hinkley 6y ago
  Something I can never quite explain to people is that when I can navigate the information faster, I can see deeper problems. Every time someone decided that this is good enough and that I “should be able to figure it out, what’s the big deal?” I am stymied. Which would sound like someone whining about how the bigger kids are running too fast, but when I finally get fed up and fix the code, half the time I’m the one who spots the underlying problem that makes a big difference. Accidental complexity kills invention. Every time we make a better tool, we reduce the accidental complexity. If we ever figure out how to draw or write directly from the motor cortex, no hands involved, that will be a new Enlightenment.
  - tux3 6y ago
    I'm very sympathetic to this, but I think you go too far with the conclusion! If we did figure out drawing or writing without hands, I think that would be a noticeable, but still small improvement. Much like with coding, the insight/information /s rate is very rarely keyboard limited. A good programmer switching to Vim may help them a bit, and it can be a strong enough effect that lots of people will want to switch to better tools like Vim But I doubt there's room enough in there to extract a whole new enlightenment from :)
    - nmfisher 6y ago
      Problem solving isn't keyboard-limited, but actually creating the solution definitely is. Once I know what code needs to be written, I still need hours to actually type the damn thing out (not to mention the constant typos, deletions, reformatting, and so on). One of my loftier startup ideas is a Neuralink-PC interface that projects the code in your head to code on a screen. I really hope I see it in my lifetime.
29athrowaway 6y ago
Each time I see the Mother of all demos, I think to myself that this guy must be a time traveler from the future.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  I guess I'm too young, as today is my first time hearing about this guy or that demo. It's a cool bit of history for sure.
  - 29athrowaway 6y ago
    I recommend reading about the oN-Line System. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLS_(computer_system)#Firsts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLS_(computer_system)#Firsts
User23 6y ago
> By "augmenting human intellect" we mean increasing the capability of a man to approach a complex problem situation, to gain comprehension to suit his particular needs, and to derive solutions to problems. Sounds like math.
- Atlantium 6y ago
  It sounds like general problem solving ie. Collect all the individual components of the problem and research the known methods of connecting the components to each other to achieve the desired result. When the desired result is found the problem is solved. It's how basic word problems are formatted. This is well documented. The problem is getting humans to follow the steps instead of making what they think are intuitive leaps but are really mental errors.
  - User23 6y ago
    Right. That’s what math is for. Intuition is well and good, but rigor demands deriving the path you leapt ahead on.
RivieraKid 6y ago
Is there a TL;DR version? Before you downvote, I don't want to invest hours into reading something when 80% of the value can probably be summarized into one paragraph. BTW, I wonder how many of the people who upvoted this have actually read it.
- modzu 6y ago
  title is missing the year (it's 1962) -- he's talking about the computer and internet. fyi doug invented the mouse, among other things..
- gjvc 6y ago
  I have never read quite such a lazy comment on HN. Do your own research, instead of grifting off other people's opinions.
  - airhead969 6y ago
    As a minor nit, the way it was said was a bit harsh, but it seemed to be done in the spirit of necessary, tough love. I'm appalled by intellectual laziness and codependency these days. We have a mostly illiterate, ignorant, distracted, atomized society that doesn't read, doesn't dig into primary or even secondary sources, doesn't have critical thinking skills, is easily-manipulated by advertising, mainstream news, and social media, doesn't communicate in-person that much, and more and more people feel entitled to be spoon-fed answers and information like helpless chicks tweeting for a worm (the definition of codependency). Only by more people reading, learning, researching, thinking, and doing for themselves more often can these trends be reversed. PSA: Turn off the screens and read a respectable nonfiction book more often, please. "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - English proverb
    - gjvc 6y ago
      well said, and I would add that the acceptance of the "TL;DR" "culture" is cancerous in tacitly encouraging such laziness.
cloudking 6y ago
FYI this website is blocked by MalwareBytes for having a trojan
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kgarten 6y ago
So happy to see this pop up on hacker news again. An anecdote (as far as I can remember it correctly), during one of his award lectures (after the 1997 Turing award), he was asked why he thinks that some of his tech was easily adapted (mouse etc.) and some others weren't (hyperlinks). He answered "Maybe the time is not right yet." ;) Shameless self plug: I'm part of a couple of crazy scientists and enthusiasts following work from Doug Engelbart, Wiener, Stelarc etc. Our yearly conference is coming up next week: https://augmented-humans.org/ https://augmented-humans.org/ Here's a preview of this years work ... happy to see some crazy works there as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYmu2bFN6kE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYmu2bFN6kE Last year we had a keynote from Stelarc (linked from my blog): https://kaikunze.de/post/2020-02-18-augmented-humans/ https://kaikunze.de/post/2020-02-18-augmented-humans/ edited: anecdote fixed + spelling
- tommica 6y ago
  Hah, looks interesting - is it livestreamed somewhere? Could be nice to have that as background noise for tomorrow while working
  - kgarten 6y ago
    yes the sessions should be zoom links (not sure if there's a youtube stream ... if so I ask them to link on it on the main page, starts Tuesday)
- gardenfelder 6y ago
  Fantastic! Thanks for sharing your links.
- kgarten 6y ago
  just in case: here's the youtube live link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yGuP6T-7zE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yGuP6T-7zE
engfan 6y ago
Doug was a gem and we will be working to bring his ideas into the mainstream for many years to come. Steve Jobs was a big fan of Doug’s and would light up when he saw him but never funded his work as far as I know. Logitech gave him an office for many years as a thank you for the mouse. Like many geniuses, the appreciation for his work emerges long after his time.
airhead969 6y ago
"Hey Siri, do my homework for me." "I'm sorry, Dave, but I'm afraid you need to purchase the Universal Homework Cheating app from the App Store on your mobile device or move to Finland where there is no homework and better educational outcomes." If AI/ML can be made general enough and enough computing horsepower is available, then a UHC is possible. Soon afterwards though, self-reprogramming will be possible, rendering most programmers and software engineers redundant. You then have to wonder what jobs cannot be automated until emotion AI and truly general AI arrive, and displace people into perhaps an economically-driven technological singularity / organic transcendence.
- justcame2say 6y ago
  Help me take a dump, Siri.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gardenfelder 6y ago
My take on Doug's vision - having worked with him for a few years before his untimely departure: While he is celebrated for the mouse, windows, and other ideas coming out of his lab, he should be better understood, not for the MotherOfAllDemos, but for what it meant (my opinions): He spoke of the ABC architecture, where "C" work is the production line, "B" work is facilitating and improving C work, and "A" work is improving B work. "A" work is where the concept flourishes: he spoke of networked imrovement communities (NICs) where the "A" team is an improvement community, and a NIC is those "A" teams in a network. Think IEEE as a NIC. But, he didn't stop there. What is an improvement community? My interpretation is that he uses the term "Dynamic Knowledge Repository" (DKR) to explain the A team; "repository" does not refer to a bank account; rather, a DKR is a combination of human systems, tool systems, and the knowledge brought to the table by the humans. Draw a circle around that. That's how I interpret a DKR. Key point to take home: all of the elements of a DKR are in a state of continuous coevolution. As humans improve, the tools they use must rise to the occasion. What held back that concept, historically, has been the tool systems. When he did MOAD, I was working at IBM on OS 360 mainframes. That's what we had in the 60's. Today, my cell phone has more compute power and memory than one of the 360s I serviced back then. It's for that reason that I am optimistic that we are on a path to realizing Doug's grand vision; our tool systems are now way ahead of we humans.
statstutor 6y ago
The "Table of Contents" attempts to hold its original place on the page, even if its original place is below the fold. (My screen is not tall enough to access the table of contents at all) I find this an ironic bit of User Interface failure.

109 points by _zhqs 6y ago

gjvc 6y ago

Thank you, Doug.

> Can I get a raise of hands for folks who think "Dream Machines" is the #1 book on software? How about for those who believe that Engelbart's Augmenting Human Intellect is a driving force for humanity? And that software is a radical embodiment of that all? I think we can get a modest show of hands; I've seen enough confirming points of view from about. (Would that I have a memex to highlight all the mentions I've seen, all the other endorsements!) Me, about an hour ago[1], in the "How can you not be romantic about software?" discussion. Amusing to see Doug echoed back on HN so quickly. Small world! It's in reply to one of the most critical pieces of the thread, to me. The overarching article is somewhat fetishistic, just in to the wizardry of it all, the power, the skill. I was replying specifically to someone promoting the use of personal knowledge systems, to capture everything you are learning, to build a log & indexes. This, really, is the heart of what I find so romantic: this augmentative, compounding nature of software, of informatics. To gain heightened view points, and to make ourselves steersmen[2]. That thread included a shout out to Karli Coss, who has done more than anyone I've seen to draw together all the streams, to gather & create views of his own existence as it forms across the digital[2]. He's brought a wide range of software- from ebook readers to music players to web browsers- into his own domain, to build his extended brain. Karli has augmented his intellect far further than anyone else. There's a lot of compelling things about software, a lot of ways to have fun. But of the ways to be romantic about programming, Augmenting Human Intellect is the most profound & resounding romantic notions that I have ever encountered. I see so many people engaged in software, but this seems like the core of where almost all real true meaning lives, and we should reshape our focus, abandon so much software, to chase an integrative, augmentative vision of computing in pursuit of this romance. We should be inspired, as Doug was. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26208453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26208453 [3] https://github.com/karlicoss/HPI#whats-inside https://github.com/karlicoss/HPI#whats-inside

gjvc 6y ago
i do not believe in the romantic part, but the Englebart vision and direction is what computers are for; everything else, while perhaps once praiseworthy, has become a diabolical local maxima.

jarmitage 6y ago

My favourite part is still the 'demo' of tying a brick to a pen to prove the power of augmentation via de-augmentation

hinkley 6y ago
Something I can never quite explain to people is that when I can navigate the information faster, I can see deeper problems. Every time someone decided that this is good enough and that I “should be able to figure it out, what’s the big deal?” I am stymied. Which would sound like someone whining about how the bigger kids are running too fast, but when I finally get fed up and fix the code, half the time I’m the one who spots the underlying problem that makes a big difference. Accidental complexity kills invention. Every time we make a better tool, we reduce the accidental complexity. If we ever figure out how to draw or write directly from the motor cortex, no hands involved, that will be a new Enlightenment.
- tux3 6y ago
  I'm very sympathetic to this, but I think you go too far with the conclusion! If we did figure out drawing or writing without hands, I think that would be a noticeable, but still small improvement. Much like with coding, the insight/information /s rate is very rarely keyboard limited. A good programmer switching to Vim may help them a bit, and it can be a strong enough effect that lots of people will want to switch to better tools like Vim But I doubt there's room enough in there to extract a whole new enlightenment from :)
  - nmfisher 6y ago
    Problem solving isn't keyboard-limited, but actually creating the solution definitely is. Once I know what code needs to be written, I still need hours to actually type the damn thing out (not to mention the constant typos, deletions, reformatting, and so on). One of my loftier startup ideas is a Neuralink-PC interface that projects the code in your head to code on a screen. I really hope I see it in my lifetime.

29athrowaway 6y ago

Each time I see the Mother of all demos, I think to myself that this guy must be a time traveler from the future.

Judgmentality 6y ago
I guess I'm too young, as today is my first time hearing about this guy or that demo. It's a cool bit of history for sure.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  I recommend reading about the oN-Line System. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLS_(computer_system)#Firsts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLS_(computer_system)#Firsts

User23 6y ago

> By "augmenting human intellect" we mean increasing the capability of a man to approach a complex problem situation, to gain comprehension to suit his particular needs, and to derive solutions to problems. Sounds like math.

Atlantium 6y ago
It sounds like general problem solving ie. Collect all the individual components of the problem and research the known methods of connecting the components to each other to achieve the desired result. When the desired result is found the problem is solved. It's how basic word problems are formatted. This is well documented. The problem is getting humans to follow the steps instead of making what they think are intuitive leaps but are really mental errors.
- User23 6y ago
  Right. That’s what math is for. Intuition is well and good, but rigor demands deriving the path you leapt ahead on.

RivieraKid 6y ago

Is there a TL;DR version? Before you downvote, I don't want to invest hours into reading something when 80% of the value can probably be summarized into one paragraph. BTW, I wonder how many of the people who upvoted this have actually read it.

modzu 6y ago
title is missing the year (it's 1962) -- he's talking about the computer and internet. fyi doug invented the mouse, among other things..
gjvc 6y ago
I have never read quite such a lazy comment on HN. Do your own research, instead of grifting off other people's opinions.
- airhead969 6y ago
  As a minor nit, the way it was said was a bit harsh, but it seemed to be done in the spirit of necessary, tough love. I'm appalled by intellectual laziness and codependency these days. We have a mostly illiterate, ignorant, distracted, atomized society that doesn't read, doesn't dig into primary or even secondary sources, doesn't have critical thinking skills, is easily-manipulated by advertising, mainstream news, and social media, doesn't communicate in-person that much, and more and more people feel entitled to be spoon-fed answers and information like helpless chicks tweeting for a worm (the definition of codependency). Only by more people reading, learning, researching, thinking, and doing for themselves more often can these trends be reversed. PSA: Turn off the screens and read a respectable nonfiction book more often, please. "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - English proverb
  - gjvc 6y ago
    well said, and I would add that the acceptance of the "TL;DR" "culture" is cancerous in tacitly encouraging such laziness.

cloudking 6y ago

FYI this website is blocked by MalwareBytes for having a trojan

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

kgarten 6y ago

So happy to see this pop up on hacker news again. An anecdote (as far as I can remember it correctly), during one of his award lectures (after the 1997 Turing award), he was asked why he thinks that some of his tech was easily adapted (mouse etc.) and some others weren't (hyperlinks). He answered "Maybe the time is not right yet." ;) Shameless self plug: I'm part of a couple of crazy scientists and enthusiasts following work from Doug Engelbart, Wiener, Stelarc etc. Our yearly conference is coming up next week: https://augmented-humans.org/ https://augmented-humans.org/ Here's a preview of this years work ... happy to see some crazy works there as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYmu2bFN6kE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYmu2bFN6kE Last year we had a keynote from Stelarc (linked from my blog): https://kaikunze.de/post/2020-02-18-augmented-humans/ https://kaikunze.de/post/2020-02-18-augmented-humans/ edited: anecdote fixed + spelling

tommica 6y ago
Hah, looks interesting - is it livestreamed somewhere? Could be nice to have that as background noise for tomorrow while working
- kgarten 6y ago
  yes the sessions should be zoom links (not sure if there's a youtube stream ... if so I ask them to link on it on the main page, starts Tuesday)
gardenfelder 6y ago
Fantastic! Thanks for sharing your links.
kgarten 6y ago
just in case: here's the youtube live link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yGuP6T-7zE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yGuP6T-7zE

engfan 6y ago

Doug was a gem and we will be working to bring his ideas into the mainstream for many years to come. Steve Jobs was a big fan of Doug’s and would light up when he saw him but never funded his work as far as I know. Logitech gave him an office for many years as a thank you for the mouse. Like many geniuses, the appreciation for his work emerges long after his time.

airhead969 6y ago

"Hey Siri, do my homework for me." "I'm sorry, Dave, but I'm afraid you need to purchase the Universal Homework Cheating app from the App Store on your mobile device or move to Finland where there is no homework and better educational outcomes." If AI/ML can be made general enough and enough computing horsepower is available, then a UHC is possible. Soon afterwards though, self-reprogramming will be possible, rendering most programmers and software engineers redundant. You then have to wonder what jobs cannot be automated until emotion AI and truly general AI arrive, and displace people into perhaps an economically-driven technological singularity / organic transcendence.

justcame2say 6y ago
Help me take a dump, Siri.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

gardenfelder 6y ago

My take on Doug's vision - having worked with him for a few years before his untimely departure: While he is celebrated for the mouse, windows, and other ideas coming out of his lab, he should be better understood, not for the MotherOfAllDemos, but for what it meant (my opinions): He spoke of the ABC architecture, where "C" work is the production line, "B" work is facilitating and improving C work, and "A" work is improving B work. "A" work is where the concept flourishes: he spoke of networked imrovement communities (NICs) where the "A" team is an improvement community, and a NIC is those "A" teams in a network. Think IEEE as a NIC. But, he didn't stop there. What is an improvement community? My interpretation is that he uses the term "Dynamic Knowledge Repository" (DKR) to explain the A team; "repository" does not refer to a bank account; rather, a DKR is a combination of human systems, tool systems, and the knowledge brought to the table by the humans. Draw a circle around that. That's how I interpret a DKR. Key point to take home: all of the elements of a DKR are in a state of continuous coevolution. As humans improve, the tools they use must rise to the occasion. What held back that concept, historically, has been the tool systems. When he did MOAD, I was working at IBM on OS 360 mainframes. That's what we had in the 60's. Today, my cell phone has more compute power and memory than one of the 360s I serviced back then. It's for that reason that I am optimistic that we are on a path to realizing Doug's grand vision; our tool systems are now way ahead of we humans.

statstutor 6y ago

The "Table of Contents" attempts to hold its original place on the page, even if its original place is below the fold. (My screen is not tall enough to access the table of contents at all) I find this an ironic bit of User Interface failure.