6 ms·

I live in a remote area where Ham radio is still a vital communication protocol during power outages and such, but lately groups of non Hams (preppers, and such

I live in a remote area where Ham radio is still a vital communication protocol during power outages and such, but lately groups of non Hams (preppers, and such) have decided that buying those cheap FRS radios will serve them during an emergency. And some of those groups are pushing people to get their FCC Ham license and use VHF radios because they can be used over greater distances. Unfortunately, almost none of those folks are actually practicing with their radios to become comfortable using them. So when an emergency occurs, they have no idea of what to do on the air, and they will cause harmful interference because they are willfully ignorant of the local communication protocols already set up by generations of Ham operators. They will be a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. I put on a "Jump Bag" presentation every year in my small town, and I warn folks that if they get an FRS radio or Ham radio, that they need to practice with it and become comfortable using it, otherwise they will not be helpful during an emergency, and will cause problems with the coordinated Hams. Aside from that, I also recommend against getting an FRS radio unless they are willing to make sure the batteries in them are replaced on a regular basis, otherwise when the emergency occurs, they will find a dead FRS radio with corroded battery contacts, basically a paperweight and nothing more. 73, KE6---

99_00 6y ago
Are they lacking technical skills or social/tribal knowledge or both?
- Mister_X 6y ago
  There are plenty of Hams willing to help them, but this subset of people feel they don't "need" to practice, they can't grok the consequences of their inaction. I've had many discussions with these type of folks, and for them it's almost like a merit badge to get a radio and talk it up, but they never learn how to use them because they don't feel they need to. They just don't want to take the time to become familiar/proficient with that particular "tool". It's quite similar to some gun owners who purchase a handgun and then never learn how to safely handle it, and never go to a range and practice with it. It appears to me, to be a cultural/generational problem of over assessment of their own abilities.
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    What do they do that is damaging? I think that's what they were asking. Do they just clog the airwaves with noise?
    - GekkePrutser 6y ago
      I'm not the OP but it sounds like they're not doing anything right now. Which is the problem. What he's afraid of is that during an actual disaster they'll all go on the air and have no clue how things work.
      - Mister_X 6y ago
        Correct. But Not afraid, I've already seen it happen. Thanks for clarifying.
    - Mister_X 6y ago
      Sorry I misunderstood. Yes, those who have Ham radios and don't know the protocols will cause interference because they don't understand how emergency communications occur. It's a strict protocol called a "Net", used to minimize Errors, which can be life threatening under emergency conditions. I've seen it happen during minor earthquakes and tsunami alerts, they become a problem, and in no way are contributing to the solution. Too much Noise, not enough Signal, interferes with emergency communications. Ham radio isn't a panacea, it's not going to help you unless you know how to use the "tool" properly.
      - ac29 6y ago
        I'm curious what you think the solution is. I have my ham license and work in commercial radio, so I certainly have an idea of how the tools work. But even in an area with a lot of repeaters, there is pretty limited activity at any given time, so what are people supposed to do to get experience? ARES/RACES type emergency response groups practicing for cold war, pre-internet type threats don't appeal to everyone. Sadly, the digital protocols for local use in the VHF/UHF bands available to new hams (2m / 70 cm) are generally boring 1980/90s-esque technology. Would be nice if a newer system came about for messaging and bulletin board type systems - voice doesn't scale.
emilfihlman 6y ago
When people talk about harmful elitism in ham, this >They will be a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. is what is party behind it. Are you saying cellphones for everyone are harmful because emergency lines are usually ddossed during an emergency? Yes there is a difference in channel access but cheap radios provide you with the very important capability of being able to listen and most people are not stupid, and abusing your radio will end up killing the battery anyway. Ie. you are overestimating the issues caused and not taking into account all the positives they provide.
- joshz404 6y ago
  Well someone that doesn't know how to use a ham radio could easily transmit where they're not supposed to, quite possibly causing interference. Your cellphone won't do that.
tomcooks 6y ago
Eternal September is the natural state of walled gardens as soon as you open the gates. As rude as RTFM sounds, it's the only antidote.
chmod600 6y ago
How do you recommend practicing? I often have trouble with the basics, like connecting to repeaters. When I do, I don't hear much traffic or it seems like a semi-private conversation where it would feel "rude" to say something. Do I just keep talking into the void and waiting? Also, I have cheap equipment, so scanning is really slow and I don't know if it even really works. I can make simplex connections on 70cm and 2m with friends when I prearrange, but that's it. I don't have tons of time but if I felt like I could hop into a conversation and be welcome (and others would be patient) then I would sometimes.
- vel0city 6y ago
  I'm assuming you're talking amateur radio here, doing VHF/UHF on repeaters. Especially assuming you're on an HT, find the closest repeaters to you. Periodically just throw out your call sign on the repeater and listen. Throwing out a call on the repeater is the normal way to just let people know you're there and listening. Experiences vary a good bit based on location and ability to transmit. You'll be able to hit far more repeaters if you have a mobile setup or the ability to operate a decent bit of power from your home safely. I live in a pretty metropolitan area and can easily hit or at least listen to a dozen or so repeaters in the area on 25W on a mobile with a j-pole in my attic. When I had access to a multi-story parking garage I had somewhat similar access with just a handheld and a decent whip antenna. Getting altitude can make a good bit of difference in making waves.
themodelplumber 6y ago
How will FRS users cause harmful interference on the ham bands? I think FRS is pretty amazing for what it is. It builds confidence if practiced in its simplicity and there are FRS neighborhood nets run by ham radio operators as well. I was surprised to find that during an emergency, FM broadcast reception alone can be an awesome solution for many, if not most. Some friends wandered over to my ham shack to ask if that was where the action was, but most of my information came from the local public/NPR station's hourly reports. (The ham repeaters were useful for hyper-local fire spotting, and generator/gear questions.)
- Animats 6y ago
  How will FRS users cause harmful interference on the ham bands? BaoFeng units can transmit on a wide range of frequencies, and non-ham users with no clue as to what's permitted can blither all over a big chunk of spectrum. BaoFeng also added a button that transmits an electronic siren sound, allowing idiots to annoy people for miles around. Further if they hit a repeater. The things are very cheap; about $10 each in quantity 6.
  - themodelplumber 6y ago
    Are you implying that FRS users and Baofeng users are one and the same? This is definitely not true if so. In my neighborhood as one example, FRS users purchase from one of the local or local chain stores, which carry Cobra, Midland, or Motorola radios. Even if you purchase from Amazon, they changed their rules some time ago and require proper FCC certification on all radios. This means that you can't buy an FRS radio from Amazon which will let you do what you said. Even the Baofeng FRS units will come without the ability to go into ham bands. And even then, if you managed to buy FRS radios without FCC certification, they come pre-programmed with FRS channels (so that they do what the label says they do) and would have to be programmed manually to use ham frequencies. I'm not sure which FRS users would or could realistically go through the trouble to do that, if any.
    - tonyarkles 6y ago
      The BaoFengs can, last I checked, transmit on 2m, 70cm, and the FRS band. I don’t remember if the modulation is exactly right on FRS.
nradov 6y ago
What do you think of Iridium satellite text messaging as an alternative to Ham radio for emergencies? There are fairly inexpensive devices available now like the Garmin Inreach.

99_00 6y ago

Are they lacking technical skills or social/tribal knowledge or both?

Mister_X 6y ago
There are plenty of Hams willing to help them, but this subset of people feel they don't "need" to practice, they can't grok the consequences of their inaction. I've had many discussions with these type of folks, and for them it's almost like a merit badge to get a radio and talk it up, but they never learn how to use them because they don't feel they need to. They just don't want to take the time to become familiar/proficient with that particular "tool". It's quite similar to some gun owners who purchase a handgun and then never learn how to safely handle it, and never go to a range and practice with it. It appears to me, to be a cultural/generational problem of over assessment of their own abilities.
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  What do they do that is damaging? I think that's what they were asking. Do they just clog the airwaves with noise?
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    I'm not the OP but it sounds like they're not doing anything right now. Which is the problem. What he's afraid of is that during an actual disaster they'll all go on the air and have no clue how things work.
    - Mister_X 6y ago
      Correct. But Not afraid, I've already seen it happen. Thanks for clarifying.
  - Mister_X 6y ago
    Sorry I misunderstood. Yes, those who have Ham radios and don't know the protocols will cause interference because they don't understand how emergency communications occur. It's a strict protocol called a "Net", used to minimize Errors, which can be life threatening under emergency conditions. I've seen it happen during minor earthquakes and tsunami alerts, they become a problem, and in no way are contributing to the solution. Too much Noise, not enough Signal, interferes with emergency communications. Ham radio isn't a panacea, it's not going to help you unless you know how to use the "tool" properly.
    - ac29 6y ago
      I'm curious what you think the solution is. I have my ham license and work in commercial radio, so I certainly have an idea of how the tools work. But even in an area with a lot of repeaters, there is pretty limited activity at any given time, so what are people supposed to do to get experience? ARES/RACES type emergency response groups practicing for cold war, pre-internet type threats don't appeal to everyone. Sadly, the digital protocols for local use in the VHF/UHF bands available to new hams (2m / 70 cm) are generally boring 1980/90s-esque technology. Would be nice if a newer system came about for messaging and bulletin board type systems - voice doesn't scale.

emilfihlman 6y ago

When people talk about harmful elitism in ham, this >They will be a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. is what is party behind it. Are you saying cellphones for everyone are harmful because emergency lines are usually ddossed during an emergency? Yes there is a difference in channel access but cheap radios provide you with the very important capability of being able to listen and most people are not stupid, and abusing your radio will end up killing the battery anyway. Ie. you are overestimating the issues caused and not taking into account all the positives they provide.

joshz404 6y ago
Well someone that doesn't know how to use a ham radio could easily transmit where they're not supposed to, quite possibly causing interference. Your cellphone won't do that.

tomcooks 6y ago

Eternal September is the natural state of walled gardens as soon as you open the gates. As rude as RTFM sounds, it's the only antidote.

chmod600 6y ago

How do you recommend practicing? I often have trouble with the basics, like connecting to repeaters. When I do, I don't hear much traffic or it seems like a semi-private conversation where it would feel "rude" to say something. Do I just keep talking into the void and waiting? Also, I have cheap equipment, so scanning is really slow and I don't know if it even really works. I can make simplex connections on 70cm and 2m with friends when I prearrange, but that's it. I don't have tons of time but if I felt like I could hop into a conversation and be welcome (and others would be patient) then I would sometimes.

vel0city 6y ago
I'm assuming you're talking amateur radio here, doing VHF/UHF on repeaters. Especially assuming you're on an HT, find the closest repeaters to you. Periodically just throw out your call sign on the repeater and listen. Throwing out a call on the repeater is the normal way to just let people know you're there and listening. Experiences vary a good bit based on location and ability to transmit. You'll be able to hit far more repeaters if you have a mobile setup or the ability to operate a decent bit of power from your home safely. I live in a pretty metropolitan area and can easily hit or at least listen to a dozen or so repeaters in the area on 25W on a mobile with a j-pole in my attic. When I had access to a multi-story parking garage I had somewhat similar access with just a handheld and a decent whip antenna. Getting altitude can make a good bit of difference in making waves.

themodelplumber 6y ago

How will FRS users cause harmful interference on the ham bands? I think FRS is pretty amazing for what it is. It builds confidence if practiced in its simplicity and there are FRS neighborhood nets run by ham radio operators as well. I was surprised to find that during an emergency, FM broadcast reception alone can be an awesome solution for many, if not most. Some friends wandered over to my ham shack to ask if that was where the action was, but most of my information came from the local public/NPR station's hourly reports. (The ham repeaters were useful for hyper-local fire spotting, and generator/gear questions.)

Animats 6y ago
How will FRS users cause harmful interference on the ham bands? BaoFeng units can transmit on a wide range of frequencies, and non-ham users with no clue as to what's permitted can blither all over a big chunk of spectrum. BaoFeng also added a button that transmits an electronic siren sound, allowing idiots to annoy people for miles around. Further if they hit a repeater. The things are very cheap; about $10 each in quantity 6.
- themodelplumber 6y ago
  Are you implying that FRS users and Baofeng users are one and the same? This is definitely not true if so. In my neighborhood as one example, FRS users purchase from one of the local or local chain stores, which carry Cobra, Midland, or Motorola radios. Even if you purchase from Amazon, they changed their rules some time ago and require proper FCC certification on all radios. This means that you can't buy an FRS radio from Amazon which will let you do what you said. Even the Baofeng FRS units will come without the ability to go into ham bands. And even then, if you managed to buy FRS radios without FCC certification, they come pre-programmed with FRS channels (so that they do what the label says they do) and would have to be programmed manually to use ham frequencies. I'm not sure which FRS users would or could realistically go through the trouble to do that, if any.
  - tonyarkles 6y ago
    The BaoFengs can, last I checked, transmit on 2m, 70cm, and the FRS band. I don’t remember if the modulation is exactly right on FRS.

nradov 6y ago

What do you think of Iridium satellite text messaging as an alternative to Ham radio for emergencies? There are fairly inexpensive devices available now like the Garmin Inreach.