6 ms·

Here's what I'm most interested in here: right now, if I'm using an alternative mobile OS (besides iOS or Android), it's basically impossible for me to implemen

Here's what I'm most interested in here: right now, if I'm using an alternative mobile OS (besides iOS or Android), it's basically impossible for me to implement digital payments through existing payment networks. On the other hand, because cryptocurrencies are FOSS and very well-standardized, it's very possible to implement a cryptocurrency wallet. If central-bank digital currencies are closer to cryptocurrencies in this regard, and the protocol is standardized enough that mobile Linux OSes can have wallets... that'll be very much appreciated. I'd love to have mobile payments but not depend on Apple or Google.

zadler 6y ago
I’d wager that only very progressive and liberal countries would have this degree of openness. Think Switzerland and Holland. Most countries will distribute their own apps (which may also spy on you) and/or use preferred technology partners.
- Tijdreiziger 6y ago
  Point of order: the name of the country is The Netherlands, not Holland.
- burundi_coffee 6y ago
  Another point of order: Switzerland might be financially liberally oriented but the political landscape is largely conservative and right leaning.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    What does financially liberal even mean here? When it comes to CBDCs and currency policy I don't even think I have gotten a strong sense of how the different camps split on this issue.
- dgellow 6y ago
  Switzerland isn't considered progressive in any way, in fact it's a very conservative country compared to its neighbors (source: I'm from there).
  - notsureaboutpg 6y ago
    Progressive used to mean you were concerned with the freedom and liberty of individuals and with transparency in government. That seems closest to "Libertarian" in American terms, and Switzerland, as a neutral country along with other European style politics, seems to fit that bill
    - brobdingnagians 6y ago
      Classical "liberals" were similar. Believed in free speech, free markets, rule by law. Languages change in interesting ways when people all pile on to a "positive word" that they want to be, but that changes the meaning of the word. It's like iterative word redefinition.
    - FabHK 6y ago
      Well, progressive originally meant marching forward, making progress [1]. As such it is literally the opposite of conservative, which means "disposed to retain and maintain what is established, opposed to innovation and change," or, in a negative sense, "opposed to progress" [2]. [1] from Etymology Online (!ety on DDG): "characterized by advancement, going forward, moving onward" (in action, character, etc.), from progress (n.) + -ive, or else from French progressif, from past participle stem of Latin progredi. From the notion of "using one's efforts toward advancement or improvement" comes the meaning "characterized by striving for change and innovation, avant-garde, liberal" (in arts, etc.), from 1908; of jazz, from 1947. In the socio-political sense "favoring reform; radically liberal" it emerged in various British contexts from the 1880s; in the U.S. it was given to a movement active in the 1890s and a generation thereafter, the name being taken again from time to time, most recently by some more liberal Democrats and other social activists, by c. 2000. https://www.etymonline.com/word/progressive https://www.etymonline.com/word/progressive [2] https://www.etymonline.com/word/conservative https://www.etymonline.com/word/conservative
    - dgellow 6y ago
      I think you mean liberal and not progressive, in the "classical liberal" sense (though the US seems to have a different meaning for this, so I'm not sure if that matches well). Switzerland is economically liberal and socially very conservative. I don't know what you mean by European style politics, I cannot see what the country system has in common with the EU, but we regularly clash with EU's politics and refused multiple time to join the union.
danialtz 6y ago
This is actually one of the main USPs to have payment at public layer. Even USA is pushing for an open API and SDKs, one day maybe an open source protocol.
jayd16 6y ago
Can't you just use the many existing web payment frameworks? Do you have some more specific requirement?
- ryukafalz 6y ago
  I should clarify: I mean physical payments with a merchant in person here. If I want to use a digital wallet at an in-person merchant, my only options are to use products by Apple or Google (or possibly both Samsung and Google). If I'm working on software for a non-Android or iOS phone? It's just not an option, not without (what I can only assume are) hugely expensive business deals with banks and card issuers. A digital currency issued by a central bank, if sufficiently standardized, could lower the barrier to entry here such that it's feasible for developers who don't make billions of dollars in revenue to participate. (Now, I also think the way credit card payments work right now in general is silly and unsafe, but that's only tangentially related here. Still, I think a digital currency could probably do it better. :)
marcosdumay 6y ago
If the problem is "I have a bank account, now I want to receive payments automatically without depending on anything else", you are looking for a money transfer protocol. The Brazilian Pix is quite interesting, as an open protocol, but I don't known of any read made FOSS client for it yet. There are other nationwide protocols around, some open, but most closed, some closed with publicly accessible middleman. Now we are mostly missing some protocol for international settlement between those. Honestly, I don't get the point of state sponsored e-money. They looks like me-too projects by people that don't understand what they are doing.
- diroussel 6y ago
  There are a lot of cost savings to be made in a move to a national digital currency. Just settlement alone could be made way cheaper. Swift could be cut out as the middleman. It would be a good cost saving innovation.
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    Yes, I saw the other threads about international settlements. The discussion here on HN is very illuminating.

zadler 6y ago

I’d wager that only very progressive and liberal countries would have this degree of openness. Think Switzerland and Holland. Most countries will distribute their own apps (which may also spy on you) and/or use preferred technology partners.

Tijdreiziger 6y ago
Point of order: the name of the country is The Netherlands, not Holland.
burundi_coffee 6y ago
Another point of order: Switzerland might be financially liberally oriented but the political landscape is largely conservative and right leaning.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  What does financially liberal even mean here? When it comes to CBDCs and currency policy I don't even think I have gotten a strong sense of how the different camps split on this issue.
dgellow 6y ago
Switzerland isn't considered progressive in any way, in fact it's a very conservative country compared to its neighbors (source: I'm from there).
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  Progressive used to mean you were concerned with the freedom and liberty of individuals and with transparency in government. That seems closest to "Libertarian" in American terms, and Switzerland, as a neutral country along with other European style politics, seems to fit that bill
  - brobdingnagians 6y ago
    Classical "liberals" were similar. Believed in free speech, free markets, rule by law. Languages change in interesting ways when people all pile on to a "positive word" that they want to be, but that changes the meaning of the word. It's like iterative word redefinition.
  - FabHK 6y ago
    Well, progressive originally meant marching forward, making progress [1]. As such it is literally the opposite of conservative, which means "disposed to retain and maintain what is established, opposed to innovation and change," or, in a negative sense, "opposed to progress" [2]. [1] from Etymology Online (!ety on DDG): "characterized by advancement, going forward, moving onward" (in action, character, etc.), from progress (n.) + -ive, or else from French progressif, from past participle stem of Latin progredi. From the notion of "using one's efforts toward advancement or improvement" comes the meaning "characterized by striving for change and innovation, avant-garde, liberal" (in arts, etc.), from 1908; of jazz, from 1947. In the socio-political sense "favoring reform; radically liberal" it emerged in various British contexts from the 1880s; in the U.S. it was given to a movement active in the 1890s and a generation thereafter, the name being taken again from time to time, most recently by some more liberal Democrats and other social activists, by c. 2000. https://www.etymonline.com/word/progressive https://www.etymonline.com/word/progressive [2] https://www.etymonline.com/word/conservative https://www.etymonline.com/word/conservative
  - dgellow 6y ago
    I think you mean liberal and not progressive, in the "classical liberal" sense (though the US seems to have a different meaning for this, so I'm not sure if that matches well). Switzerland is economically liberal and socially very conservative. I don't know what you mean by European style politics, I cannot see what the country system has in common with the EU, but we regularly clash with EU's politics and refused multiple time to join the union.

danialtz 6y ago

This is actually one of the main USPs to have payment at public layer. Even USA is pushing for an open API and SDKs, one day maybe an open source protocol.

jayd16 6y ago

Can't you just use the many existing web payment frameworks? Do you have some more specific requirement?

ryukafalz 6y ago
I should clarify: I mean physical payments with a merchant in person here. If I want to use a digital wallet at an in-person merchant, my only options are to use products by Apple or Google (or possibly both Samsung and Google). If I'm working on software for a non-Android or iOS phone? It's just not an option, not without (what I can only assume are) hugely expensive business deals with banks and card issuers. A digital currency issued by a central bank, if sufficiently standardized, could lower the barrier to entry here such that it's feasible for developers who don't make billions of dollars in revenue to participate. (Now, I also think the way credit card payments work right now in general is silly and unsafe, but that's only tangentially related here. Still, I think a digital currency could probably do it better. :)

marcosdumay 6y ago

If the problem is "I have a bank account, now I want to receive payments automatically without depending on anything else", you are looking for a money transfer protocol. The Brazilian Pix is quite interesting, as an open protocol, but I don't known of any read made FOSS client for it yet. There are other nationwide protocols around, some open, but most closed, some closed with publicly accessible middleman. Now we are mostly missing some protocol for international settlement between those. Honestly, I don't get the point of state sponsored e-money. They looks like me-too projects by people that don't understand what they are doing.

diroussel 6y ago
There are a lot of cost savings to be made in a move to a national digital currency. Just settlement alone could be made way cheaper. Swift could be cut out as the middleman. It would be a good cost saving innovation.
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  Yes, I saw the other threads about international settlements. The discussion here on HN is very illuminating.