3 ms·

Yes, especially since X11 code isn't badly written. It gives me the feeling X devs were fed up with a huge codebase and wanted to write something new and shiny,

Yes, especially since X11 code isn't badly written. It gives me the feeling X devs were fed up with a huge codebase and wanted to write something new and shiny, albeit with 10% of features, pushing the maintenance burden downstream. The Wayland evangelists touting it as desktop-ready and no-true-scottsman'ing any critique also smells fishy. What Wayland did bring was more fragmentation. And yes, their attitude toward missing features is the same as GNOME's: WONTFIX parade 24/7.

solarkraft 6y ago
I'm a Wayland evangelist and super sad about the fragmentation - it's the main thing holding it back right now. KDE and GNOME are both doing their own thing, with the wlroots (Sway) community being the main driver for standardization: Wlroots protocols are slowly being integrated into Wayland proper and implemented by KDE (layer-shell is coming up). I would hope the Freedesktop group to get active here, as they have been incredibly successful promoting standards in the past and probably could do it again - but it seems like they're closely associated with the Gnome-Project, which has apparently decided to go the "fuck everyone else" route.
- cycloptic 6y ago
  I think you have a misconception of what freedesktop is, it is not much more than a hosting service for desktop-related projects. If someone wants to submit an RFC there the process is the same as it's always been, other people working on that can choose to accept or reject anyone else's proposals. I wouldn't say GNOME or KDE or wlroots or any of those are being a main driver, the point with that is that they have to come together. None of them can just say "I am working more on standardization than you are," that doesn't make any sense when the participation is voluntary. (And just IMO, things like layer-shell are not really a solution that fits with Wayland, that just puts us back in X territory where clients can position themselves arbitrarily, steal input and take over the screen)
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    I have to say, your mention stolen input (and I'm assuming focus) got my attention. Is this something that Wayland can somehow remedy?
    - account42 6y ago
      Input focus is already controlled by the window manager on X11 so you can implement whatever policy you want there.

solarkraft 6y ago

I'm a Wayland evangelist and super sad about the fragmentation - it's the main thing holding it back right now. KDE and GNOME are both doing their own thing, with the wlroots (Sway) community being the main driver for standardization: Wlroots protocols are slowly being integrated into Wayland proper and implemented by KDE (layer-shell is coming up). I would hope the Freedesktop group to get active here, as they have been incredibly successful promoting standards in the past and probably could do it again - but it seems like they're closely associated with the Gnome-Project, which has apparently decided to go the "fuck everyone else" route.

cycloptic 6y ago
I think you have a misconception of what freedesktop is, it is not much more than a hosting service for desktop-related projects. If someone wants to submit an RFC there the process is the same as it's always been, other people working on that can choose to accept or reject anyone else's proposals. I wouldn't say GNOME or KDE or wlroots or any of those are being a main driver, the point with that is that they have to come together. None of them can just say "I am working more on standardization than you are," that doesn't make any sense when the participation is voluntary. (And just IMO, things like layer-shell are not really a solution that fits with Wayland, that just puts us back in X territory where clients can position themselves arbitrarily, steal input and take over the screen)
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  I have to say, your mention stolen input (and I'm assuming focus) got my attention. Is this something that Wayland can somehow remedy?
  - account42 6y ago
    Input focus is already controlled by the window manager on X11 so you can implement whatever policy you want there.