4 ms·

examples for what? From your cnn link '"Prepare for an increased number of infections in the days following a protest," the letter says. ' > “The right to

examples for what? From your cnn link '"Prepare for an increased number of infections in the days following a protest," the letter says. ' > “The right to live, the right to breathe, the right to walk down the street without police coming at you for no reason . . . that’s different than me wanting to go to my place of worship on the weekend, me wanting to take my kid on a roller coaster, me wanting to go to brunch with my friends.” This is obviously an emotional response. She didn't do A/B testing of various activity outcomes on public health and base her conclusions on that. Can't somone simply say going to church is good for metal health of the population, she didn't obviously measure the outcomes of that activity.

camgunz 6y ago
Sure, my point is that the medical professionals responding to the protests were acknowledging that racism is a public health crisis and that the protests are both deeply relevant to the COVID-19 pandemic, and even more important than containing COVID-19. They also compared those protests to other gatherings like religious services, social events, and anti-mask/lockdown protests and said those gatherings were not as important as containing COVID-19. From where I sit, I think they pretty well explained why they think the BLM marches in the wake of George Floyd's murder were justified. I certainly wouldn't say they had "emotional or manipulative motivations", a characterization which seems completely off base.
- dominotw 6y ago
  anything that's not based on scietific hypothesis is obviously an 'emotional response', how is this even a controversial statement. Can you point me to the study for public health outcome differences from protests vs going to church. And what what their scietific criteria for where to draw the line was.
  - camgunz 6y ago
    I don't think we need a scientific study to know that centuries of systemic violence is worse than Zoom church.
    - dominotw 6y ago
      we also know that social isolation causes depression and anxiety. "As the pandemic ushered in isolation and financial hardship, overdose deaths reached new heights" [1] Again, What is their basis for what is ok and what is not. Emotions. correct? Who are they to decide which population is expendable. 1. https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/16/as-pandemic-ushered-in-isolation-financial-hardship-overdose-deaths-reached-new-heights/ https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/16/as-pandemic-ushered-in-i...
      - camgunz 6y ago
        Overdose deaths definitely spiked in the early months of the pandemic. I haven't been able to find anything after 5/2020, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that no one's in the pink of mental health right now, and that means the vulnerable among of us are much more at risk. But I don't think doctors are making decisions about advice based on emotions. COVID-19 is the most likely cause of death for people 25-44 [1] (supplanting unintentional opioid overdose deaths). COVID-19 has a hugely disproportionate effect on communities of color [2]. Systemic racism also causes deaths; look at asthma for example [3]. Finally, even the CDC is kind of at a loss as to what to do about overdose deaths [4]. Essentially they're like "get more naloxone and get more treatment." > Who are they to decide which population is expendable. I get where you're coming from here but, I don't think it's as simple as "lockdowns kill people" because: - Not imposing a lockdown also kills people - Even in the absence of a lockdown order, people are hesitant to get together - There are lots of ways to socialize and get outside that are very low risk (pods, outdoor activities) - COVID-19 deaths are far, far outstripping opioid overdose deaths due to lockdowns (the numbers I've found show that COVID-19 deaths exceed all opioid overdose deaths, not just the total YoY increase). But if I could summarize what I think your points have been, I think your argument is broadly that doctors treated George Floyd's murder and the subsequent protests differently than hardships in other communities, and that at least indicates some level of emotional reaction if not outright bias. But I think they themselves have explained why they reacted differently, and I think the data (gathered by medical researchers and social scientists) back them up. [1]: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201026/COVID-19-now-likely-leading-cause-of-death-among-25-44s-in-USA.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201026/COVID-19-now-like... [2]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/09/16/covid-deaths-cdc-finds-majority-kids-who-die-black-hispanic/5814985002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/09/16/covid-... [3]: https://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=4&lvlid=15 https://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=4&lvlid=1... [4]: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p1218-overdose-deaths-covid-19.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p1218-overdose-death...

camgunz 6y ago

Sure, my point is that the medical professionals responding to the protests were acknowledging that racism is a public health crisis and that the protests are both deeply relevant to the COVID-19 pandemic, and even more important than containing COVID-19. They also compared those protests to other gatherings like religious services, social events, and anti-mask/lockdown protests and said those gatherings were not as important as containing COVID-19. From where I sit, I think they pretty well explained why they think the BLM marches in the wake of George Floyd's murder were justified. I certainly wouldn't say they had "emotional or manipulative motivations", a characterization which seems completely off base.

dominotw 6y ago
anything that's not based on scietific hypothesis is obviously an 'emotional response', how is this even a controversial statement. Can you point me to the study for public health outcome differences from protests vs going to church. And what what their scietific criteria for where to draw the line was.
- camgunz 6y ago
  I don't think we need a scientific study to know that centuries of systemic violence is worse than Zoom church.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    we also know that social isolation causes depression and anxiety. "As the pandemic ushered in isolation and financial hardship, overdose deaths reached new heights" [1] Again, What is their basis for what is ok and what is not. Emotions. correct? Who are they to decide which population is expendable. 1. https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/16/as-pandemic-ushered-in-isolation-financial-hardship-overdose-deaths-reached-new-heights/ https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/16/as-pandemic-ushered-in-i...
    - camgunz 6y ago
      Overdose deaths definitely spiked in the early months of the pandemic. I haven't been able to find anything after 5/2020, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that no one's in the pink of mental health right now, and that means the vulnerable among of us are much more at risk. But I don't think doctors are making decisions about advice based on emotions. COVID-19 is the most likely cause of death for people 25-44 [1] (supplanting unintentional opioid overdose deaths). COVID-19 has a hugely disproportionate effect on communities of color [2]. Systemic racism also causes deaths; look at asthma for example [3]. Finally, even the CDC is kind of at a loss as to what to do about overdose deaths [4]. Essentially they're like "get more naloxone and get more treatment." > Who are they to decide which population is expendable. I get where you're coming from here but, I don't think it's as simple as "lockdowns kill people" because: - Not imposing a lockdown also kills people - Even in the absence of a lockdown order, people are hesitant to get together - There are lots of ways to socialize and get outside that are very low risk (pods, outdoor activities) - COVID-19 deaths are far, far outstripping opioid overdose deaths due to lockdowns (the numbers I've found show that COVID-19 deaths exceed all opioid overdose deaths, not just the total YoY increase). But if I could summarize what I think your points have been, I think your argument is broadly that doctors treated George Floyd's murder and the subsequent protests differently than hardships in other communities, and that at least indicates some level of emotional reaction if not outright bias. But I think they themselves have explained why they reacted differently, and I think the data (gathered by medical researchers and social scientists) back them up. [1]: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201026/COVID-19-now-likely-leading-cause-of-death-among-25-44s-in-USA.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201026/COVID-19-now-like... [2]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/09/16/covid-deaths-cdc-finds-majority-kids-who-die-black-hispanic/5814985002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/09/16/covid-... [3]: https://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=4&lvlid=15 https://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=4&lvlid=1... [4]: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p1218-overdose-deaths-covid-19.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p1218-overdose-death...