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It's really hard for me to understand why and how something fails or succeeds to grab the public's attention. I've been complaining and refusing to use WhatsAp

It's really hard for me to understand why and how something fails or succeeds to grab the public's attention. I've been complaining and refusing to use WhatsApp for years, mostly because it's centralized at the worst possible company. But a boycott of one is not a powerful move and no one cared. Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care. I mean, I'm glad they finally do, don't think it will make much of a difference, as network effect is a very strong pull, but I'm flabbergasted nonetheless.

smhg 6y ago
Over here (in Belgium and The Netherlands at least) so many neighborhoods have signs promoting local WhatsApp groups, complete with the logo [0]. Often to 'prevent crime'. Local municipalities install and pay for them. It is so awkward to see. [0] https://cdn.nieuws.nl/media/sites/305/2016/05/14195316/Borden-WhatsApp-Buurtpreventie-geplaatst-915x518.jpg https://cdn.nieuws.nl/media/sites/305/2016/05/14195316/Borde...
- comfyinnernet 6y ago
  Someone should paste Zuckerberg's face in the middle of the logo whenever they see one of those.
- tsukurimashou 6y ago
  I was a bit "shocked" by that when I moved to the Netherlands, everyone there uses it and the government seems to have a responsibility in that. Between the signs like you said and the possibility to contact town hall to take an appointment and other government related services via Whatsapp (I can certainly get why people use it, because it's much more convenient that having to make a phone call).
  - jcul 6y ago
    In Ireland it's the same, everyone uses WhatsApp. If I share my number with someone, it would be much stranger for me to receive an SMS from them than a WhatsApp message. If I phone a tradesman, e.g. a plumber, and they ask for a picture of a job, the photo will be sent using whatsapp. It's ubiquitous and it's assumed that if you're have a phone you have WhatsApp. The only people I can think of that don't use it are my wife's grandparents, they use Facebook messenger for that purpose. Back when people were switching to signal a lot of people cited the fact that signal needed a phone number as a reason not to use it, instead recommending session, threema, matrix. But if signal didn't tie your account to your phone number there's no way I would have convinced any of my contacts to switch. Having to exchange username or user IDs wouldn't have cut it, with whatsapp the service is deeply associated with you phone number and that's what people want.
  - wackget 6y ago
    The same has happened with Zoom in many countries.
- Freak_NL 6y ago
  At least the trend seems to have halted for now. These abhorrent signs are completely pointless as a crime prevention device (obviously). It's free advertising in two ways. One is for Facebook/WhatsApp (the use of these signs further normalizes WhatsApp and strengthens the brand), and the other is as a friendly gesture to criminals: here live people who can't afford fancy alarm systems and private security subscriptions, but can afford plenty of easily stolen devices and other loot.
oaiey 6y ago
It is this one single spark. An journalist writing a story. A user complaining to his right buddies. The one executive of a big company making an announcement. It is a spark. Or a butterfly ;)
edoloughlin 6y ago
Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care This was discussed on a You Are Not So Smart [1] episode some time over the last few months (I had a look but couldn't find it). The basic idea was that collective behaviour can change in an instant because of multiple pressures that have been building over time and looking for a single cause (or trigger) is fruitless because no one event has any great significance per se. The closest that Google would bring me is a paper on 'Threshold Models of Collective Behavior' [2]. [1] https://youarenotsosmart.com/ https://youarenotsosmart.com/ [2] https://www.jstor.org/stable/2778111?seq=1 https://www.jstor.org/stable/2778111?seq=1
- tambourine_man 6y ago
  It’s certainly an emergent behavior of some kind, yes. Thanks for the links.
fartcannon 6y ago
You're not alone. I have been doing the same, but not just WhatsApp, also Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Apple.. Any company that abuses it's power to lock down, sell data from or attempt to control their users. It's often pretty lonely. Ive had friends simply stop talking with me. Ive been left out of weddings, birthdays, etc. I guess it's like trying to be a vegan at a BBQ. Worst part is that when what Id feared comes true, they just move on to the next worse option and the cycle continues.
- secfirstmd 6y ago
  Dont you think that maybe you are taking things a bit far if you are losing lots of friends over it? What's your threat model? You can bridge a number of these services if you want. Or use a locked down device for them. FAANG privacy crap causing you to lose friends is kinda letting them win a bit too much.
  - levosmetalo 6y ago
    The most secure communication is the communication that doesn't happen. He can be pretty sure his communication channel will not be abused by some big advertising corp.
  - fartcannon 6y ago
    Bah, what friends are they that ignore someone because they don't have Facebook or believe in a better future for everyone. Better off without them, in my opinion. As I mentioned, they just move on to the next worse thing and the cycle of stupid choices continues.
    - tambourine_man 6y ago
      I have mixed feelings on this. One the one hand, yes, true friends will use smoke signals to reach you if needed. On the other, like you, I’ve missed many events of people I like but am not that close to, because everyone is on WhatsApp, why didn’t you come, oh, right, you’re that one guy.
    - 6y ago
wtf_is_up 6y ago
This is how I feel about Robinhood.
ActorNightly 6y ago
>It's really hard for me to understand why and how something fails or succeeds to grab the public's attention. If you can collectively get outraged about something with a group of people, you tend to feel "woke" and belonging to a cause. We are to the point in media, especially online smaller publications, where if you see a story that you feel like you should get outraged about, you can safely discard it as either false or at best extremely biased.
akamaka 6y ago
Your complaining was working, just very slowly, like water dripping on a stone.
ric2b 6y ago
> Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care. But it has effectively changed, we like to ignore contracts/laws/T&C's and focus on the technology but those things really matter for a large company.
neop1x 6y ago
> Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care. Can't it be due to coronavirus lockdowns? People have more time to read such news and discuss with others.

smhg 6y ago

Over here (in Belgium and The Netherlands at least) so many neighborhoods have signs promoting local WhatsApp groups, complete with the logo [0]. Often to 'prevent crime'. Local municipalities install and pay for them. It is so awkward to see. [0] https://cdn.nieuws.nl/media/sites/305/2016/05/14195316/Borden-WhatsApp-Buurtpreventie-geplaatst-915x518.jpg https://cdn.nieuws.nl/media/sites/305/2016/05/14195316/Borde...

comfyinnernet 6y ago
Someone should paste Zuckerberg's face in the middle of the logo whenever they see one of those.
tsukurimashou 6y ago
I was a bit "shocked" by that when I moved to the Netherlands, everyone there uses it and the government seems to have a responsibility in that. Between the signs like you said and the possibility to contact town hall to take an appointment and other government related services via Whatsapp (I can certainly get why people use it, because it's much more convenient that having to make a phone call).
- jcul 6y ago
  In Ireland it's the same, everyone uses WhatsApp. If I share my number with someone, it would be much stranger for me to receive an SMS from them than a WhatsApp message. If I phone a tradesman, e.g. a plumber, and they ask for a picture of a job, the photo will be sent using whatsapp. It's ubiquitous and it's assumed that if you're have a phone you have WhatsApp. The only people I can think of that don't use it are my wife's grandparents, they use Facebook messenger for that purpose. Back when people were switching to signal a lot of people cited the fact that signal needed a phone number as a reason not to use it, instead recommending session, threema, matrix. But if signal didn't tie your account to your phone number there's no way I would have convinced any of my contacts to switch. Having to exchange username or user IDs wouldn't have cut it, with whatsapp the service is deeply associated with you phone number and that's what people want.
- wackget 6y ago
  The same has happened with Zoom in many countries.
Freak_NL 6y ago
At least the trend seems to have halted for now. These abhorrent signs are completely pointless as a crime prevention device (obviously). It's free advertising in two ways. One is for Facebook/WhatsApp (the use of these signs further normalizes WhatsApp and strengthens the brand), and the other is as a friendly gesture to criminals: here live people who can't afford fancy alarm systems and private security subscriptions, but can afford plenty of easily stolen devices and other loot.

oaiey 6y ago

It is this one single spark. An journalist writing a story. A user complaining to his right buddies. The one executive of a big company making an announcement. It is a spark. Or a butterfly ;)

edoloughlin 6y ago

Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care This was discussed on a You Are Not So Smart [1] episode some time over the last few months (I had a look but couldn't find it). The basic idea was that collective behaviour can change in an instant because of multiple pressures that have been building over time and looking for a single cause (or trigger) is fruitless because no one event has any great significance per se. The closest that Google would bring me is a paper on 'Threshold Models of Collective Behavior' [2]. [1] https://youarenotsosmart.com/ https://youarenotsosmart.com/ [2] https://www.jstor.org/stable/2778111?seq=1 https://www.jstor.org/stable/2778111?seq=1

tambourine_man 6y ago
It’s certainly an emergent behavior of some kind, yes. Thanks for the links.

fartcannon 6y ago

You're not alone. I have been doing the same, but not just WhatsApp, also Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Apple.. Any company that abuses it's power to lock down, sell data from or attempt to control their users. It's often pretty lonely. Ive had friends simply stop talking with me. Ive been left out of weddings, birthdays, etc. I guess it's like trying to be a vegan at a BBQ. Worst part is that when what Id feared comes true, they just move on to the next worse option and the cycle continues.

secfirstmd 6y ago
Dont you think that maybe you are taking things a bit far if you are losing lots of friends over it? What's your threat model? You can bridge a number of these services if you want. Or use a locked down device for them. FAANG privacy crap causing you to lose friends is kinda letting them win a bit too much.
- levosmetalo 6y ago
  The most secure communication is the communication that doesn't happen. He can be pretty sure his communication channel will not be abused by some big advertising corp.
- fartcannon 6y ago
  Bah, what friends are they that ignore someone because they don't have Facebook or believe in a better future for everyone. Better off without them, in my opinion. As I mentioned, they just move on to the next worse thing and the cycle of stupid choices continues.
  - tambourine_man 6y ago
    I have mixed feelings on this. One the one hand, yes, true friends will use smoke signals to reach you if needed. On the other, like you, I’ve missed many events of people I like but am not that close to, because everyone is on WhatsApp, why didn’t you come, oh, right, you’re that one guy.
  - 6y ago

wtf_is_up 6y ago

This is how I feel about Robinhood.

ActorNightly 6y ago

>It's really hard for me to understand why and how something fails or succeeds to grab the public's attention. If you can collectively get outraged about something with a group of people, you tend to feel "woke" and belonging to a cause. We are to the point in media, especially online smaller publications, where if you see a story that you feel like you should get outraged about, you can safely discard it as either false or at best extremely biased.

akamaka 6y ago

Your complaining was working, just very slowly, like water dripping on a stone.

ric2b 6y ago

> Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care. But it has effectively changed, we like to ignore contracts/laws/T&C's and focus on the technology but those things really matter for a large company.

neop1x 6y ago

> Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care. Can't it be due to coronavirus lockdowns? People have more time to read such news and discuss with others.