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I think the psychological toll of the lockdowns in different countries is highly underestimated. I myself have no real economical shortcomings due to the lockd

I think the psychological toll of the lockdowns in different countries is highly underestimated. I myself have no real economical shortcomings due to the lockdown, but even as a person who is normaly a total loner and who can spend weeks completely alone on a excessive hiking trip i am slowly going crazy... For my wife, who is a highly social character, its even worse. And i am not the only one in this mindset... what i hear and see in my region let me believe the mood is slowly turning into some sort of "Torches and Pitchforks" way...

rpadovani 6y ago
I feel you: my life is as good as it can get during this challenging time, I live with my SO in a somewhat large apartment, we both still work, I from home and she from office, we don't have any sick relative, nor kids, so we have our space, and we don't have to worry about money or anything at all. I'm quite loner on my own, and the first lockdown was quite a breeze. But these days I'm becoming more and more tired, and I spend my time after work doing basic nothing. Also watching a movie is boring! I have no idea how people with kids, or without job stability, or with relatives to take care off haven't gone crazy yet!
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  I know others feel differently, but my toddler has actually been a reprieve. Each day has been some small step forward, some word or new idea discovered. There’s bad with the good, of course - but I don’t know that I would have had the time to see all this if I weren’t home.
powersnail 6y ago
I feel that. I'm a loner, in normal times. But the prolonged isolation had induced me to participate a lot more in online forums, more than I should. They had grown to be increasingly addicting, because how my life is now lacking inter-personal interactions.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Same, I mean we didn't really go out as a rule anyway, but we would go into town for a stroll, shop and a beer or two, or the cinema, little things like that. We're all right, but it's slowly wearing us down. But there's people who are seriously worn down by it. I for one am glad I'm not alone, I'm not sure I would be in any good mental state right now if my girlfriend hadn't moved in two years ago. I can really imagine the torches and pitchforks more and more. Because my country didn't do enough during the summer last year, cases spiked after people went back to work and school. The measures and carefulness of people failed because things kept going on for too long. And now the government has set a curfew, which messes with the only time I actually go out during the day (taking the dog for a walk just before midnight). It feels like we're being punished for something other people did. They're still handing out thousands of tickets a week (although those will likely all be voided because a court decided the curfew was introduced on the wrong grounds), they're still breaking up a hundred parties a week, and there's still millions of people that go to work every day even though they can work from home. At the current rate, it'll take the rest of the year before we get to an 80% vaccination rate. I mean I hope things will return to a semblance of normality by the summer (last year the number of cases went down sharply after flu season finished), but I'm afraid we'll be stuck for another year at least.
_uwiz 6y ago
Different countries, and different situations. Living in a big old house in the country with your family? Your life is probably basically the same as it always was. Potentially better, depending on the work situation. Okay, sure, you're not going on as many holidays, and depending on how strict the rules are where you are, dinner parties are off the cards. Living in a flat as a single person in the big exciting city? Literally everything you do has been illegal or restricted in some form for almost a year now. I have no issue with how people choose to live their lives. I'm sure one day when I settle down I'll be in that group too. It sounds lovely. But we have to be very, very clear about this - a month or two more and I'm going to be in the 'pitchforks and torches' group. There are limits, you can't just delete my lifestyle for a year and counting as a risk-aversion play and expect me to roll over and take it. Nah.
- AltruisticGap2 6y ago
  I understand your sentiment but for me the realization is different. For me seeing the streets of my capital city completely empty at beginning of lockdown, as well as the trams and buses (even though you could ride them), made me realize that I was living in an environment that is fundamentally not pleasant. That it was people that made it alive. Without people, I saw that this city which I always thought of as "the place where I can do anything, almost any time of the day" is really just a conglomerate of gray buildings, commerce, lots and lots of roads and noisy traffic, and very little green. The spell was good while it lasted. That said I am also past 45 now... if I was younger I might still want to come back to a big city when I can in order to have access to more activities.
  - deleted 6y ago
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  - lmm 6y ago
    Wasn't that something we all knew already? People are what make cities worth living in, the point of living in a city is to be close to more people, and that naturally involves some compromises (though I'm all for non-grey buildings and minimising the space devoted to cars - something my city is fairly good at).
corobo 6y ago
Yeah I once spent 2 months not talking to anyone but I was doing things at the time. This is just My wires are coming loose
mhh__ 6y ago
The slightly weird thing for me is that I'm bored but I'm also silently nonplussed about quite a few social venues being shut because I simultaneously don't really enjoy but also get FOMO over (say) nightclubs - I'm sort of doomed to be perpetually normal enough to talk to but odd enough to weird people out. Basically one less thing to be neurotic about, although the fact that of my two real friends one is hard to talk to because of a subtle cultural difference and the other clearly only tolerates and has clearly reached the stage where a friendship bifurcates and people trying to hurt each other suddenly, has been cruelly exposed to me.
kashyapc 6y ago
I live in a small and wonderful city-town in Western EU. Unsurprisingly, much of the atmosphere is in doldrums. As a long-time remotee, I'm often used to working from the library or a pleasant coffee shop. It's tough not to have this access to the gentle human buzz around me, or a stranger's smile, much as I'm used to long stretches of solitude. And this extended lockdown has aggravated the ability to deal with a recent personal setback. It helps that I built a healthy lifestyle, and have no problems giving structure to my attention. Long walks in nature, hours of dedicated reading of offline books (the medicine of the mind) help immensely. And my studies in areas like ancient Greek philosophy, psychology, neuroscience all help, and continue to provide some relief. But it's strenuous to keep grinding through it, without access to much of humanity, in the normal sense. So far, it's been a potent stress-test of resilience.
adrianb 6y ago
The link posted is cute and all but such initiatives are so easy to dismiss - what, you guys can't live without going to a bar? What are you, some kind of alcoholics? You don't want to save some lives? When in reality the lockdowns ask us to give up everything that makes us human - closeness and interaction with other people, hobbies, and many people can't even work or see their families any more. And we're making this effort without even being sure it's worth it - sure, there's a vaccine now and that's an amazing achievement but we still have the risk of vaccine resistance so long-term not sure how we can avoid the (mitigated) risks.
- theandrewbailey 6y ago
  You can't avoid risk. Life is full of risk. If one thing doesn't get you, something else will, but we don't shut down society because of them.
meheleventyone 6y ago
I find this very interesting as well. I definitely have felt way more anxious during the lockdowns we've had. There's definitely a pervasive atmosphere which is very draining even though objectively my family have had a very easy time of things.
simplestman 6y ago
As an introvert, I really enjoyed it. I do love bars and miss going there but not a big deal. We had tons of happy hours on Zoom. Yes Zoom is not perfect replacement for in-person socializing but it is not that bad. On other hand, my wife really didn't like socializing on Zoom. So she didn't socialize as much. Also she really misses in-person gatherings. And my biggest issue been trying to cheer her up.
e67f70028a46fba 6y ago
Even the term: lockdown Free societies don’t have lockdowns. Prisons do. One would think that the government would come up with a better term, if only out of self interest. But then perhaps that’s the point.
- brink 6y ago
  What happened last spring was more or less incarceration. We weren't free. We weren't allowed to leave our houses. The term "lockdown" works quite well.
  - dashundchen 6y ago
    Outside the US maybe. Nowhere in the US was locked down. In fact a good portion of states never enforced restrictions at all.
    - da_big_ghey 6y ago
      Thankfully, while there were a few places that attempted to restrict outings to "essential" trips, it never was enforceable. I am not a fan of many things police do, but I am proud that my local sheriff announced that he would not enforce any such order.
  - ssully 6y ago
    You very clearly have zero clue what life is like while incarcerated. You should be embarrassed by this comment.
- Izkata 6y ago
  A lot of places used "shelter-in-place", and officially over here it's still "stay-at-home". The colloquial term having switched so totally to "lockdown" is another symptom of people caring for it less and less.
  - standardUser 6y ago
    I was endlessly annoyed by the misuse of the term "shetler-in-place" by so many state and local governments. At no point should anyone, anywhere have sheltered in place due to this pandemic, which is an established term in emergency management where people are instructed to shelter in whatever structure they happen to be located at the time of the emergency.
DebtDeflation 6y ago
I think we're turning the corner. I was firmly in the "doomer" camp before, but there are strong reasons for optimism now. New cases, daily deaths, and hospitalizations have all been falling rapidly for weeks now. The current estimate is for 50% of the US population to have received their first shot of vaccine by June 28: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine... That's at the current pace. The pace will almost certainly continue to accelerate. You also need to add in the unvaccinated who have immunity from prior infection. We're on track for a quasi-normal (as far as restrictions go) Summer, and there will be an enormous push to get kids back in school full time and people back in the office regularly right after Labor Day.
- coldpie 6y ago
  IMO Summer is a bit optimistic to be calling anything "normal," but I broadly agree we're near the end. Maybe by Fall or Winter we can hang out in bars again without feeling like we're killing somebody. In either case, now is not the time to give up. A few more months and we'll start seeing things ease up, I think. But we won't get there if we make things worse now. It sucks. Stay strong. Do what you can.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    > But we won't get there if we make things worse now. I have seen this claimed a lot, but is it really true? In some countries the authorities ended restrictions (or ostensibly maintained restrictions but stopped enforcement of them) because the population simply wasn't observing them. In those cases just "giving up" really worked in terms of the majority of people being able to get back to normal socializing.
    - jaywalk 6y ago
      The studies that have been done have shown that whatever benefits that lockdowns may have had were far outweighed by the toll they've taken on mental health and the economy. Short of literally locking everyone in their houses for 2-3 weeks (including essential workers) lockdowns just feel like they're doing something.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> what i hear and see in my region let me believe the mood is slowly turning into some sort of "Torches and Pitchforks" way... In several countries with lockdowns there is definitely collusion between ruling parties and mainstream media on which the ruling party has a close relationship or outright tight grip. In Poland, independent media across the ideological spectrum have been reporting that the majority of the population opposes lockdown, and support for business owners opening their restaurants regardless has risen. Yet you won't hear a word about this in state-controlled media. The ruling party is, however, aware of sentiment turning against them, because party functionaries have privately expressed to independent media that they fear that lockdown might cost them the next election. The problem, however, is that when mainstream media refuses to report common sentiment, the average person feels that he or she is all alone in feeling that way. This prevents people from organizing and pushing together for change (which is just the way that many ruling parties like it).
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_Microft 6y ago
I bet it is. Sadly, this is a self-inflicted problem. Instead of trying to understand the purpose of the imposed measures and trying to maximize their impact to get us through this as fast as possible, lots of people saw them as pure nuisance instead. They tried to bend the rules to work around them and so we are still stuck with these measures for far longer than would have been necessary otherwise. Now we all reap what they sowed.
ravenstine 6y ago
Your region might be different, but I've heard others say the same thing about my area and, frankly, I see it as wishful thinking. People aren't happy in general, but they both have surrogate outlets for their frustration(Netflix, porn, junk food, weed) and have been conditioned to accept lower standards; being able to eat outdoors in someone's parking lot with plastic dividers is considered "exciting" now, depending on where you live. Even people who were against lockdowns behave like their masters are giving them an extra scoop of kibble every time that restrictions are loosened. As long as people tirelessly hang on to the hopium, I think there's no way we'll see "torches and pitchforks" manifest in any substantial way. To reiterate, I'm sure this is region-dependent, and I'm speaking primarily for America in general.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Those "torches and pitchforks" would quickly be followed by ventilators and graves. I absolutely despise authority and loss of individual liberty, but this isn't a fabricated crisis. Once you see multiple people you know devastated by COVID, you quickly realize it's not a hoax. I'm talking about younger people too (20-40), permanently damaged respiratory systems and near death experiences.
  - RalfWausE 6y ago
    I have seen people getting shot, stabbed and blown apart, was shot at and was near an botched airstrike... perhaps this makes me a bit ehm... "unempathic", but the only thing i really, really fear is an perpetual lockdown with no real end in sight. So... i myself side with freedom and (risk of) death.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      > perhaps this makes me a bit ehm... "unempathic" Yes, I believe that's the case. Most people have not witnessed these things first hand. Nor should they.
johnwalkr 6y ago
This is true, BUT, loss of loved ones is surely worse than loneliness, when talking about depression. And it's still an indication of early/strict lockdowns. People in China, Vietnam, Taiwan and New Zealand are enjoying social contact, punctuated by periodic lockdown. Some countries are basically placing the burden of reducing R0 on volunteers.
anyonecancode 6y ago
This is an odd framing to me. The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. I guess we could have made the choice to trade the toll of social restrictions for the toll of even more people getting seriously ill and dying, but whatever choices we made and are making, the fact of the matter is that pandemics majorly suck. I think railing against lockdowns is a coping mechanism -- as policies we've chosen, we have some measure of control, so complaining about social restrictions gives us a sense we can change something, whereas going on a rant about bits of protein that don't quite qualify as even being alive doesn't really grant much relief. We're all tired. This is a crappy situation. And if complaining about lockdowns help people feel better, well we all do what we need to try and feel a bit better I guess. But, in our more calm and reflective and honest moments, we should remember that the psychological toll here is from the pandemic, and there's not some magical other option where the pandemic is anything other than a very difficult situation.
- AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
  > The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. How do you know? I think this claim, if it is to be believed, deserves some solid and objective evidence. How come the pandemic is the deadly one? Why not put some of the blame on the millions of people who died from this thing, who probably could have lived through it had they lived healthier lives? There has been ZERO discussion of how to improve the body's natural immunity to viruses, which is without a doubt the most efficacious way to prevent death from coronaviruses. > I think railing against lockdowns is a coping mechanism This is so condescending I have a hard time believing you're being honest. No business owner would choose to completely shutter their enterprise as so many have had to do under threat of government violence. The complete upending of normal life was not something anyone did because it was the right thing to do. We did it because we were all under threat of fines, violence, and losing our freedoms even further if we didn't. > But, in our more calm and reflective and honest moments, we should remember that the psychological toll here is from the pandemic, and there's not some magical other option where the pandemic is anything other than a very difficult situation. The "pandemic" has done absolutely nothing to me. All of my difficulties have been tied to the complete shutdown of my local, state, and federal government. I haven't gotten sick nor have any of my close friends and family. I have, however, been assaulted by random prisoners let out of prison too early, have been price-gouged by corporations, and have had my basic liberties stripped. Those were all lockdown policies causing those things - not the pandemic. To me, it's overwhelmingly obvious that our infrastructure is failing and the government is using ridiculous histrionics regarding the virus and regarding "anti-racism," to cover it up.
eplanit 6y ago
"the mood is slowly turning into some sort of "Torches and Pitchforks" way..." That mentality can actually be helpful, and provided it stays metaphorical, it is called for. We're coming up on the one year anniversary of authoritarian rules. We accepted them because we were (rightfully) scared. The facts are that it is now getting under control, and it would be healthy and cathartic to assert normalcy again. We're rightful in being optimistic now, and should reclaim our rights and freedom. The craziness comes from trying to contain it.
- robotresearcher 6y ago
  What do you think happens if we go back to normal behavior before we have a large fraction of people vaccinated?
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    The UK roadmap that will be rolled out Monday but was already leaked to the press, calls for social distancing to be maintained for essentially the rest of the year, even after most people are vaccinated. (Restaurants can reopen where you can meet people from another household or two, but no concerts, theatre, clubs, etc.) So, the connection that you mentioned between getting people vaccinated and going back to normal, is no longer what is guiding policymakers in some countries. Seeing that disingenuous planning on the part of state authorities, I would simply prefer to go back to normal behavior right now, allow young people to have their big social coming-of-age and courtship rituals and open the borders so that Europeans aren’t separated from their fellow Europeans, and simply accept all the deaths that would result in the in-between time.
- kelnos 6y ago
  > We're coming up on the one year anniversary of authoritarian rules. What exactly is "authoritarian" about them? These rules were imposed and enforced[0] under authority granted to the government through democratic processes. And if enough people don't like it, most states have recall/impeachment processes that can allow the citizenry to remove the elected officials and replace them with people who will take a different path. The fact that none of that has happened shows that the people who truly believe the measures taken were incorrect are in the minority, likely a small vocal minority. If you want to talk about authoritarianism, look to actual authoritarian states, where curfews, lockdowns, and quarantines were implemented, along with severe restrictions on people's movement... with no avenue for citizens to oppose these measures (and if they try, they get arrested). That is not at all what has been happening in the US, UK, and similar nations. [0] Also consider that many of the rules imposed on individuals have essentially been voluntary and under the honor system. In most (but not all) places in the US you don't get ticketed or arrested for failing to wear a mask or socially distance, or for violating a quarantine or curfew.
jorl17 6y ago
Lockdown has allowed me to properly realize how much I really do not care about going out. I may enjoy social outings, and for a while I used to have weekly scheduled social outings having much fun in them. In spite of that, I've always been "homey", and I've always been very affected by going out multiple times -- especially weekends. It just drains me and physically exhausts me. Weekends should be sacred. I absolutely hate going out in them. It screws my whole week. Thus, lockdown has not impacted me negatively in the slightest. At least not directly (it has indirectly through the mental health of those around me). I really do not care about going out. Even more so than I thought. I like it this way, and I think that while I knew I could stay "home" for long periods, and liked it, I was never aware just how much I really am not affected by "staying home". I have basically been living for almost a year in a "leave the house on average 0.75 times per week", and for at most 4 hours. In a week, I go out an average of 3 hours. I live just fine. Some of my close friends who considered themselves to be just like me are slowly going a bit crazy. I guess it's not even their need to go out, but the fact that they _know_ they can't. I understand other people function in other ways. I'm sorry if you're in this group (or your loved ones). Nevertheless, to me, I just really don't feel the impact at all. If anything, having other people "live more like me" has made my life somewhat better, because they can empathize with me more and because the whole world has become "easier to live in", more adapted to my ways of living. Mind you, this doesn't mean I can live anywhere because I live "mostly remotely, and mostly in my head". I live 5 minutes from my parents (and for a while I was living 1h away from them). Even though I may not go there every day, not even every week or every two weeks, the fact that I'm here gives me immense happiness and calmness. Staying at home does not mean not caring about my immediate and even my "nearish" surroundings.
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  Glad to see I'm not the only one. I've seen so many posts across the internet along the lines of "I'm a total loner, but I can hardly take it anymore". Meanwhile, I'm definitely an introvert, but not even that much of a loner and I'm doing just fine.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    I'm an introvert that's doing fine as well. As long as we're talking about positives (which we should!) I'd say no business travel is the #1 benefit for me. I've gone from being forced to take a dozen trips a year to zero. It's been wonderful. No more rushing around filthy airports, crammed next to strangers for hours in coach, disgusting hotel rooms... all in the name of my job. I quite frankly hope business travel never returns. Better for the environment too.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> I think the psychological toll of the lockdowns in different countries is highly underestimated. indeed it is: The psychological impact of quarantine and how to reduce it: rapid review of the evidence https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30460-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

rpadovani 6y ago

I feel you: my life is as good as it can get during this challenging time, I live with my SO in a somewhat large apartment, we both still work, I from home and she from office, we don't have any sick relative, nor kids, so we have our space, and we don't have to worry about money or anything at all. I'm quite loner on my own, and the first lockdown was quite a breeze. But these days I'm becoming more and more tired, and I spend my time after work doing basic nothing. Also watching a movie is boring! I have no idea how people with kids, or without job stability, or with relatives to take care off haven't gone crazy yet!

germinalphrase 6y ago
I know others feel differently, but my toddler has actually been a reprieve. Each day has been some small step forward, some word or new idea discovered. There’s bad with the good, of course - but I don’t know that I would have had the time to see all this if I weren’t home.

powersnail 6y ago

I feel that. I'm a loner, in normal times. But the prolonged isolation had induced me to participate a lot more in online forums, more than I should. They had grown to be increasingly addicting, because how my life is now lacking inter-personal interactions.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

Same, I mean we didn't really go out as a rule anyway, but we would go into town for a stroll, shop and a beer or two, or the cinema, little things like that. We're all right, but it's slowly wearing us down. But there's people who are seriously worn down by it. I for one am glad I'm not alone, I'm not sure I would be in any good mental state right now if my girlfriend hadn't moved in two years ago. I can really imagine the torches and pitchforks more and more. Because my country didn't do enough during the summer last year, cases spiked after people went back to work and school. The measures and carefulness of people failed because things kept going on for too long. And now the government has set a curfew, which messes with the only time I actually go out during the day (taking the dog for a walk just before midnight). It feels like we're being punished for something other people did. They're still handing out thousands of tickets a week (although those will likely all be voided because a court decided the curfew was introduced on the wrong grounds), they're still breaking up a hundred parties a week, and there's still millions of people that go to work every day even though they can work from home. At the current rate, it'll take the rest of the year before we get to an 80% vaccination rate. I mean I hope things will return to a semblance of normality by the summer (last year the number of cases went down sharply after flu season finished), but I'm afraid we'll be stuck for another year at least.

_uwiz 6y ago

Different countries, and different situations. Living in a big old house in the country with your family? Your life is probably basically the same as it always was. Potentially better, depending on the work situation. Okay, sure, you're not going on as many holidays, and depending on how strict the rules are where you are, dinner parties are off the cards. Living in a flat as a single person in the big exciting city? Literally everything you do has been illegal or restricted in some form for almost a year now. I have no issue with how people choose to live their lives. I'm sure one day when I settle down I'll be in that group too. It sounds lovely. But we have to be very, very clear about this - a month or two more and I'm going to be in the 'pitchforks and torches' group. There are limits, you can't just delete my lifestyle for a year and counting as a risk-aversion play and expect me to roll over and take it. Nah.

AltruisticGap2 6y ago
I understand your sentiment but for me the realization is different. For me seeing the streets of my capital city completely empty at beginning of lockdown, as well as the trams and buses (even though you could ride them), made me realize that I was living in an environment that is fundamentally not pleasant. That it was people that made it alive. Without people, I saw that this city which I always thought of as "the place where I can do anything, almost any time of the day" is really just a conglomerate of gray buildings, commerce, lots and lots of roads and noisy traffic, and very little green. The spell was good while it lasted. That said I am also past 45 now... if I was younger I might still want to come back to a big city when I can in order to have access to more activities.
- deleted 6y ago
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- lmm 6y ago
  Wasn't that something we all knew already? People are what make cities worth living in, the point of living in a city is to be close to more people, and that naturally involves some compromises (though I'm all for non-grey buildings and minimising the space devoted to cars - something my city is fairly good at).

corobo 6y ago

Yeah I once spent 2 months not talking to anyone but I was doing things at the time. This is just My wires are coming loose

mhh__ 6y ago

The slightly weird thing for me is that I'm bored but I'm also silently nonplussed about quite a few social venues being shut because I simultaneously don't really enjoy but also get FOMO over (say) nightclubs - I'm sort of doomed to be perpetually normal enough to talk to but odd enough to weird people out. Basically one less thing to be neurotic about, although the fact that of my two real friends one is hard to talk to because of a subtle cultural difference and the other clearly only tolerates and has clearly reached the stage where a friendship bifurcates and people trying to hurt each other suddenly, has been cruelly exposed to me.

kashyapc 6y ago

I live in a small and wonderful city-town in Western EU. Unsurprisingly, much of the atmosphere is in doldrums. As a long-time remotee, I'm often used to working from the library or a pleasant coffee shop. It's tough not to have this access to the gentle human buzz around me, or a stranger's smile, much as I'm used to long stretches of solitude. And this extended lockdown has aggravated the ability to deal with a recent personal setback. It helps that I built a healthy lifestyle, and have no problems giving structure to my attention. Long walks in nature, hours of dedicated reading of offline books (the medicine of the mind) help immensely. And my studies in areas like ancient Greek philosophy, psychology, neuroscience all help, and continue to provide some relief. But it's strenuous to keep grinding through it, without access to much of humanity, in the normal sense. So far, it's been a potent stress-test of resilience.

adrianb 6y ago

The link posted is cute and all but such initiatives are so easy to dismiss - what, you guys can't live without going to a bar? What are you, some kind of alcoholics? You don't want to save some lives? When in reality the lockdowns ask us to give up everything that makes us human - closeness and interaction with other people, hobbies, and many people can't even work or see their families any more. And we're making this effort without even being sure it's worth it - sure, there's a vaccine now and that's an amazing achievement but we still have the risk of vaccine resistance so long-term not sure how we can avoid the (mitigated) risks.

theandrewbailey 6y ago
You can't avoid risk. Life is full of risk. If one thing doesn't get you, something else will, but we don't shut down society because of them.

meheleventyone 6y ago

I find this very interesting as well. I definitely have felt way more anxious during the lockdowns we've had. There's definitely a pervasive atmosphere which is very draining even though objectively my family have had a very easy time of things.

simplestman 6y ago

As an introvert, I really enjoyed it. I do love bars and miss going there but not a big deal. We had tons of happy hours on Zoom. Yes Zoom is not perfect replacement for in-person socializing but it is not that bad. On other hand, my wife really didn't like socializing on Zoom. So she didn't socialize as much. Also she really misses in-person gatherings. And my biggest issue been trying to cheer her up.

e67f70028a46fba 6y ago

Even the term: lockdown Free societies don’t have lockdowns. Prisons do. One would think that the government would come up with a better term, if only out of self interest. But then perhaps that’s the point.

brink 6y ago
What happened last spring was more or less incarceration. We weren't free. We weren't allowed to leave our houses. The term "lockdown" works quite well.
- dashundchen 6y ago
  Outside the US maybe. Nowhere in the US was locked down. In fact a good portion of states never enforced restrictions at all.
  - da_big_ghey 6y ago
    Thankfully, while there were a few places that attempted to restrict outings to "essential" trips, it never was enforceable. I am not a fan of many things police do, but I am proud that my local sheriff announced that he would not enforce any such order.
- ssully 6y ago
  You very clearly have zero clue what life is like while incarcerated. You should be embarrassed by this comment.
Izkata 6y ago
A lot of places used "shelter-in-place", and officially over here it's still "stay-at-home". The colloquial term having switched so totally to "lockdown" is another symptom of people caring for it less and less.
- standardUser 6y ago
  I was endlessly annoyed by the misuse of the term "shetler-in-place" by so many state and local governments. At no point should anyone, anywhere have sheltered in place due to this pandemic, which is an established term in emergency management where people are instructed to shelter in whatever structure they happen to be located at the time of the emergency.

DebtDeflation 6y ago

I think we're turning the corner. I was firmly in the "doomer" camp before, but there are strong reasons for optimism now. New cases, daily deaths, and hospitalizations have all been falling rapidly for weeks now. The current estimate is for 50% of the US population to have received their first shot of vaccine by June 28: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine... That's at the current pace. The pace will almost certainly continue to accelerate. You also need to add in the unvaccinated who have immunity from prior infection. We're on track for a quasi-normal (as far as restrictions go) Summer, and there will be an enormous push to get kids back in school full time and people back in the office regularly right after Labor Day.

coldpie 6y ago
IMO Summer is a bit optimistic to be calling anything "normal," but I broadly agree we're near the end. Maybe by Fall or Winter we can hang out in bars again without feeling like we're killing somebody. In either case, now is not the time to give up. A few more months and we'll start seeing things ease up, I think. But we won't get there if we make things worse now. It sucks. Stay strong. Do what you can.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > But we won't get there if we make things worse now. I have seen this claimed a lot, but is it really true? In some countries the authorities ended restrictions (or ostensibly maintained restrictions but stopped enforcement of them) because the population simply wasn't observing them. In those cases just "giving up" really worked in terms of the majority of people being able to get back to normal socializing.
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    The studies that have been done have shown that whatever benefits that lockdowns may have had were far outweighed by the toll they've taken on mental health and the economy. Short of literally locking everyone in their houses for 2-3 weeks (including essential workers) lockdowns just feel like they're doing something.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

> what i hear and see in my region let me believe the mood is slowly turning into some sort of "Torches and Pitchforks" way... In several countries with lockdowns there is definitely collusion between ruling parties and mainstream media on which the ruling party has a close relationship or outright tight grip. In Poland, independent media across the ideological spectrum have been reporting that the majority of the population opposes lockdown, and support for business owners opening their restaurants regardless has risen. Yet you won't hear a word about this in state-controlled media. The ruling party is, however, aware of sentiment turning against them, because party functionaries have privately expressed to independent media that they fear that lockdown might cost them the next election. The problem, however, is that when mainstream media refuses to report common sentiment, the average person feels that he or she is all alone in feeling that way. This prevents people from organizing and pushing together for change (which is just the way that many ruling parties like it).

deleted 6y ago

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_Microft 6y ago

I bet it is. Sadly, this is a self-inflicted problem. Instead of trying to understand the purpose of the imposed measures and trying to maximize their impact to get us through this as fast as possible, lots of people saw them as pure nuisance instead. They tried to bend the rules to work around them and so we are still stuck with these measures for far longer than would have been necessary otherwise. Now we all reap what they sowed.

ravenstine 6y ago

Your region might be different, but I've heard others say the same thing about my area and, frankly, I see it as wishful thinking. People aren't happy in general, but they both have surrogate outlets for their frustration(Netflix, porn, junk food, weed) and have been conditioned to accept lower standards; being able to eat outdoors in someone's parking lot with plastic dividers is considered "exciting" now, depending on where you live. Even people who were against lockdowns behave like their masters are giving them an extra scoop of kibble every time that restrictions are loosened. As long as people tirelessly hang on to the hopium, I think there's no way we'll see "torches and pitchforks" manifest in any substantial way. To reiterate, I'm sure this is region-dependent, and I'm speaking primarily for America in general.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
Those "torches and pitchforks" would quickly be followed by ventilators and graves. I absolutely despise authority and loss of individual liberty, but this isn't a fabricated crisis. Once you see multiple people you know devastated by COVID, you quickly realize it's not a hoax. I'm talking about younger people too (20-40), permanently damaged respiratory systems and near death experiences.
- RalfWausE 6y ago
  I have seen people getting shot, stabbed and blown apart, was shot at and was near an botched airstrike... perhaps this makes me a bit ehm... "unempathic", but the only thing i really, really fear is an perpetual lockdown with no real end in sight. So... i myself side with freedom and (risk of) death.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    > perhaps this makes me a bit ehm... "unempathic" Yes, I believe that's the case. Most people have not witnessed these things first hand. Nor should they.

johnwalkr 6y ago

This is true, BUT, loss of loved ones is surely worse than loneliness, when talking about depression. And it's still an indication of early/strict lockdowns. People in China, Vietnam, Taiwan and New Zealand are enjoying social contact, punctuated by periodic lockdown. Some countries are basically placing the burden of reducing R0 on volunteers.

anyonecancode 6y ago

This is an odd framing to me. The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. I guess we could have made the choice to trade the toll of social restrictions for the toll of even more people getting seriously ill and dying, but whatever choices we made and are making, the fact of the matter is that pandemics majorly suck. I think railing against lockdowns is a coping mechanism -- as policies we've chosen, we have some measure of control, so complaining about social restrictions gives us a sense we can change something, whereas going on a rant about bits of protein that don't quite qualify as even being alive doesn't really grant much relief. We're all tired. This is a crappy situation. And if complaining about lockdowns help people feel better, well we all do what we need to try and feel a bit better I guess. But, in our more calm and reflective and honest moments, we should remember that the psychological toll here is from the pandemic, and there's not some magical other option where the pandemic is anything other than a very difficult situation.

AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
> The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. How do you know? I think this claim, if it is to be believed, deserves some solid and objective evidence. How come the pandemic is the deadly one? Why not put some of the blame on the millions of people who died from this thing, who probably could have lived through it had they lived healthier lives? There has been ZERO discussion of how to improve the body's natural immunity to viruses, which is without a doubt the most efficacious way to prevent death from coronaviruses. > I think railing against lockdowns is a coping mechanism This is so condescending I have a hard time believing you're being honest. No business owner would choose to completely shutter their enterprise as so many have had to do under threat of government violence. The complete upending of normal life was not something anyone did because it was the right thing to do. We did it because we were all under threat of fines, violence, and losing our freedoms even further if we didn't. > But, in our more calm and reflective and honest moments, we should remember that the psychological toll here is from the pandemic, and there's not some magical other option where the pandemic is anything other than a very difficult situation. The "pandemic" has done absolutely nothing to me. All of my difficulties have been tied to the complete shutdown of my local, state, and federal government. I haven't gotten sick nor have any of my close friends and family. I have, however, been assaulted by random prisoners let out of prison too early, have been price-gouged by corporations, and have had my basic liberties stripped. Those were all lockdown policies causing those things - not the pandemic. To me, it's overwhelmingly obvious that our infrastructure is failing and the government is using ridiculous histrionics regarding the virus and regarding "anti-racism," to cover it up.

eplanit 6y ago

"the mood is slowly turning into some sort of "Torches and Pitchforks" way..." That mentality can actually be helpful, and provided it stays metaphorical, it is called for. We're coming up on the one year anniversary of authoritarian rules. We accepted them because we were (rightfully) scared. The facts are that it is now getting under control, and it would be healthy and cathartic to assert normalcy again. We're rightful in being optimistic now, and should reclaim our rights and freedom. The craziness comes from trying to contain it.

robotresearcher 6y ago
What do you think happens if we go back to normal behavior before we have a large fraction of people vaccinated?
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  The UK roadmap that will be rolled out Monday but was already leaked to the press, calls for social distancing to be maintained for essentially the rest of the year, even after most people are vaccinated. (Restaurants can reopen where you can meet people from another household or two, but no concerts, theatre, clubs, etc.) So, the connection that you mentioned between getting people vaccinated and going back to normal, is no longer what is guiding policymakers in some countries. Seeing that disingenuous planning on the part of state authorities, I would simply prefer to go back to normal behavior right now, allow young people to have their big social coming-of-age and courtship rituals and open the borders so that Europeans aren’t separated from their fellow Europeans, and simply accept all the deaths that would result in the in-between time.
kelnos 6y ago
> We're coming up on the one year anniversary of authoritarian rules. What exactly is "authoritarian" about them? These rules were imposed and enforced[0] under authority granted to the government through democratic processes. And if enough people don't like it, most states have recall/impeachment processes that can allow the citizenry to remove the elected officials and replace them with people who will take a different path. The fact that none of that has happened shows that the people who truly believe the measures taken were incorrect are in the minority, likely a small vocal minority. If you want to talk about authoritarianism, look to actual authoritarian states, where curfews, lockdowns, and quarantines were implemented, along with severe restrictions on people's movement... with no avenue for citizens to oppose these measures (and if they try, they get arrested). That is not at all what has been happening in the US, UK, and similar nations. [0] Also consider that many of the rules imposed on individuals have essentially been voluntary and under the honor system. In most (but not all) places in the US you don't get ticketed or arrested for failing to wear a mask or socially distance, or for violating a quarantine or curfew.

jorl17 6y ago

Lockdown has allowed me to properly realize how much I really do not care about going out. I may enjoy social outings, and for a while I used to have weekly scheduled social outings having much fun in them. In spite of that, I've always been "homey", and I've always been very affected by going out multiple times -- especially weekends. It just drains me and physically exhausts me. Weekends should be sacred. I absolutely hate going out in them. It screws my whole week. Thus, lockdown has not impacted me negatively in the slightest. At least not directly (it has indirectly through the mental health of those around me). I really do not care about going out. Even more so than I thought. I like it this way, and I think that while I knew I could stay "home" for long periods, and liked it, I was never aware just how much I really am not affected by "staying home". I have basically been living for almost a year in a "leave the house on average 0.75 times per week", and for at most 4 hours. In a week, I go out an average of 3 hours. I live just fine. Some of my close friends who considered themselves to be just like me are slowly going a bit crazy. I guess it's not even their need to go out, but the fact that they _know_ they can't. I understand other people function in other ways. I'm sorry if you're in this group (or your loved ones). Nevertheless, to me, I just really don't feel the impact at all. If anything, having other people "live more like me" has made my life somewhat better, because they can empathize with me more and because the whole world has become "easier to live in", more adapted to my ways of living. Mind you, this doesn't mean I can live anywhere because I live "mostly remotely, and mostly in my head". I live 5 minutes from my parents (and for a while I was living 1h away from them). Even though I may not go there every day, not even every week or every two weeks, the fact that I'm here gives me immense happiness and calmness. Staying at home does not mean not caring about my immediate and even my "nearish" surroundings.

0xffff2 6y ago
Glad to see I'm not the only one. I've seen so many posts across the internet along the lines of "I'm a total loner, but I can hardly take it anymore". Meanwhile, I'm definitely an introvert, but not even that much of a loner and I'm doing just fine.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  I'm an introvert that's doing fine as well. As long as we're talking about positives (which we should!) I'd say no business travel is the #1 benefit for me. I've gone from being forced to take a dozen trips a year to zero. It's been wonderful. No more rushing around filthy airports, crammed next to strangers for hours in coach, disgusting hotel rooms... all in the name of my job. I quite frankly hope business travel never returns. Better for the environment too.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

> I think the psychological toll of the lockdowns in different countries is highly underestimated. indeed it is: The psychological impact of quarantine and how to reduce it: rapid review of the evidence https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30460-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...