6 ms·

Judging vertical farming based on the performance of wheat is not valid. When I saw the test crop was wheat, I scrolled to see if there were any other crops, sa

Judging vertical farming based on the performance of wheat is not valid. When I saw the test crop was wheat, I scrolled to see if there were any other crops, saw that there weren't, and abandoned the article because wheat has among the worst yields per area (in terms of kg of edible product per sq meters). Since the pandemic started, I started experimenting with hydroponics and I've been growing basil, kale, mint, chard, carrots, tomatoes, radishes, and a bunch of herbs, all in about a 60cm x 60cm x 120cm grow tent. It's much less efficient than it could be (if I had much more space), but it's still extremely productive. My setup draws about 80 watts for 18 hours a day (vegetative growth phase) or 12 hours of day (flowering stage) and I've been able to prolong the gap between grocery store trips because this produces enough to eliminate the need to buy vegetables. This article is just ridiculous.

tvanantwerp 6y ago
As a new homeowner who has never gardened before, I'm curious how to get started doing something like your hydroponics setup.
- modriano 6y ago
  For someone looking to get started, with the knowledge I've gained over the past year, I'd recommend starting with a Kratky grow [0]. It's extremely simple and extremely inexpensive (you basically just start some seedlings in rockwool [1], then when seedlings are an inch or two tall, transplant them into a container with nutrient solution in it. A lot of videos and online articles are very finicky, but from trial and error, the only things I've discovered that really matter are A) the pH of your water (pH impacts plants ability to absorb nutrients [2], anywhere in the range of 5.0 to 6.5 has been fine for me), and B) the amount of light your plants get (suspend your light(s) so you can always keep it a few inches above your plants). To do any kind of hydroponics grow, you'll need (and you can pick up most of this locally (for far less than on Amazon) at a garden center or hydroponics store if available): - a way to measure pH (you can get strips for next to nothing, or an electric meter (~$15 for a cheapo one, maybe $40 for a reliable one)) - a way to adjust the pH [3] - nutrients (I have just used FloraDuo 5-0-6 [4] without issue, 2ml per liter of water has been perfect) - a way to start your seedlings (I've used rockwool [5] in a clear rubbermaid bin) - lights (doesn't have to be fancy [6]) - containers for nutrient solution (could be a bucket from home depot with a hole drilled in the top for net cups [7]) - seeds (any home improvement store with a garden center will have a stand with all kinds of seeds to pick from) Things that make it much nicer (but are unnecessary if you don't know if you want to stick with this hobby): - Timers for your lights [8] - Basically everything in this kit [9] except for the netting, grow bags, and "odor control filters" (unless you want to grow that specific plant with the very particular and easily identifiable odor, and you don't want the odor). Regarding my own build, the setup I built was needlessly complicated, as I'm an engineer and I tried to automate as much as possible. I made a germination station (with a heating pad and tray [10] with a temperature controller [11]) for seedlings, and I picked an aeroponics setup (aeroponics is a form of hydroponic growing where plant's roots dangle above the nutrient solution and are intermittently sprayed or trickled on; this is approximately the build [12]), and if I hadn't been in my house all the time, I probably would have abandoned it in June (but I'm really glad I didn't, it's been a lot of fun). After I got everything built, it's been maybe 40 minutes of work a week (mostly checking the nutrient levels, mixing up nutrient solution, and harvesting plants). Maybe someday I'll make an even more automated system like this [13] where I don't even have to think about pH level and nutrient solution is automatically mixed and added. [0] https://youtu.be/5z0NaYpVHMs?t=7 [1] https://youtu.be/AMlCdm_yVvc [2] http://rodsgardening.com/pH.htm [3] https://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponics-pH-Control-Kit/dp/B017XTFKE6/ [4] https://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponics-FloraDuo-Mineral-Nutrient/dp/B004PPY750 [5] https://www.amazon.com/Rockwool-Starter-Twin-Canaries-Chart/dp/B07KJVQ6T5 [6] https://youtu.be/lT8acb5WTT0 [7] https://www.amazon.com/xGarden-Lightweight-Economy-Hydroponics-Aquaponics/dp/B07W9H8ZRH [8] https://www.amazon.com/Century-Indoor-24-Hour-Mechanical-Outlet/dp/B01LPSGBZS [9] https://www.amazon.com/Spider-Farmer-Complete-Spectrum-Compatible/dp/B088R3JHHD [10] https://www.amazon.com/CK64050-Germination-Station-Listed-72-Cell/dp/B000HHO1RO/ [11] https://www.amazon.com/Century-Thermostat-Controller-Germination-40-108Â°F/dp/B01I15S6OM [12] https://youtu.be/edtYDsMthC4?t=67 [13] https://youtu.be/nyqykZK2Ev4
wainstead 6y ago
> Judging vertical farming based on the performance of wheat is not valid. When I saw the test crop was wheat, I scrolled to see if there were any other crops, saw that there weren't, and abandoned the article because wheat has among the worst yields per area (in terms of kg of edible product per sq meters). I want to stress this point. Crops like wheat, rice, and corn are not suitable for vertical farming. No vertical farms today are growing these. And claiming “vertical farming does not save land” based on a single 1msq art installation makes a tenuous argument at best. And even worse, from the article: > When wheat is planted in the ground next to each other, instead of above, the sun provides free energy and the clouds free water. No, no, no, no. Water from precipitation is a fraction of the water needed in areas like the American central plains where the Ogallala Aquifer has been pumped out for decades. Irrigation is a must for growing staple crops almost anywhere. And water is increasingly in short supply.
- Armisael16 6y ago
  Why not corn? My understanding is that it’s one of the most efficient crops in calories/acre terms (which is presumably what you actually care about, not kg/acre).
  - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
    My guess is that counterintuitively but unsurprisingly, you actually want to use crops that were previously inefficient to grow. Low yields per acre crops are more suitable to indoor vertical farming because of the benefit climate control, and lack of pests provides.
    - Armisael16 6y ago
      I don’t understand why those would preferentially help low yield crops more than high yield crops. That would be very surprising to me.
      - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
        My thoughts: If a crop is easy to grow, that means it’s able to handle: 1. Variable sunlight conditions; 2. Variable water conditions; 3. Handle bugs, viruses; and 4. Variable climate conditions. Low yield crops are problematic because they cannot handle variability. Using an indoor facility is equally expensive if you program the conditions to be variable or to be relatively strict. Additionally, a low yield crop is typically more expensive than a high yield crop. As such, you would rather program the indoor facility’s conditions to be relatively strict and grow a typically low yield crop, get significantly better yield and compete on price.
jbm 6y ago
Hey, I was hoping you could share some resources about this subject! I always have a hard time finding any useful information about hydroponics and would love to learn more.
bastawhiz 6y ago
> When I saw the test crop was wheat, I scrolled to see if there were any other crops, saw that there weren't, and abandoned the article because wheat has among the worst yields per area (in terms of kg of edible product per sq meters). Yes, but corn, soybeans, and wheat represent an overwhelming majority of agriculture (at least in the US). If the goal is to reduce energy use, it makes sense to focus on the things that we're making the most of. In 2013 we produced 354M tonnes of corn and 58M tonnes of wheat, and only 13M tonnes of tomatoes and and 3.6M tonnes of lettuce. The fact of the matter is that wheat—despite being low-yield—accounts for an enormously huge percentage of agriculture.

tvanantwerp 6y ago

As a new homeowner who has never gardened before, I'm curious how to get started doing something like your hydroponics setup.

modriano 6y ago
For someone looking to get started, with the knowledge I've gained over the past year, I'd recommend starting with a Kratky grow [0]. It's extremely simple and extremely inexpensive (you basically just start some seedlings in rockwool [1], then when seedlings are an inch or two tall, transplant them into a container with nutrient solution in it. A lot of videos and online articles are very finicky, but from trial and error, the only things I've discovered that really matter are A) the pH of your water (pH impacts plants ability to absorb nutrients [2], anywhere in the range of 5.0 to 6.5 has been fine for me), and B) the amount of light your plants get (suspend your light(s) so you can always keep it a few inches above your plants). To do any kind of hydroponics grow, you'll need (and you can pick up most of this locally (for far less than on Amazon) at a garden center or hydroponics store if available): - a way to measure pH (you can get strips for next to nothing, or an electric meter (~$15 for a cheapo one, maybe $40 for a reliable one)) - a way to adjust the pH [3] - nutrients (I have just used FloraDuo 5-0-6 [4] without issue, 2ml per liter of water has been perfect) - a way to start your seedlings (I've used rockwool [5] in a clear rubbermaid bin) - lights (doesn't have to be fancy [6]) - containers for nutrient solution (could be a bucket from home depot with a hole drilled in the top for net cups [7]) - seeds (any home improvement store with a garden center will have a stand with all kinds of seeds to pick from) Things that make it much nicer (but are unnecessary if you don't know if you want to stick with this hobby): - Timers for your lights [8] - Basically everything in this kit [9] except for the netting, grow bags, and "odor control filters" (unless you want to grow that specific plant with the very particular and easily identifiable odor, and you don't want the odor). Regarding my own build, the setup I built was needlessly complicated, as I'm an engineer and I tried to automate as much as possible. I made a germination station (with a heating pad and tray [10] with a temperature controller [11]) for seedlings, and I picked an aeroponics setup (aeroponics is a form of hydroponic growing where plant's roots dangle above the nutrient solution and are intermittently sprayed or trickled on; this is approximately the build [12]), and if I hadn't been in my house all the time, I probably would have abandoned it in June (but I'm really glad I didn't, it's been a lot of fun). After I got everything built, it's been maybe 40 minutes of work a week (mostly checking the nutrient levels, mixing up nutrient solution, and harvesting plants). Maybe someday I'll make an even more automated system like this [13] where I don't even have to think about pH level and nutrient solution is automatically mixed and added. [0] https://youtu.be/5z0NaYpVHMs?t=7 [1] https://youtu.be/AMlCdm_yVvc [2] http://rodsgardening.com/pH.htm [3] https://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponics-pH-Control-Kit/dp/B017XTFKE6/ [4] https://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponics-FloraDuo-Mineral-Nutrient/dp/B004PPY750 [5] https://www.amazon.com/Rockwool-Starter-Twin-Canaries-Chart/dp/B07KJVQ6T5 [6] https://youtu.be/lT8acb5WTT0 [7] https://www.amazon.com/xGarden-Lightweight-Economy-Hydroponics-Aquaponics/dp/B07W9H8ZRH [8] https://www.amazon.com/Century-Indoor-24-Hour-Mechanical-Outlet/dp/B01LPSGBZS [9] https://www.amazon.com/Spider-Farmer-Complete-Spectrum-Compatible/dp/B088R3JHHD [10] https://www.amazon.com/CK64050-Germination-Station-Listed-72-Cell/dp/B000HHO1RO/ [11] https://www.amazon.com/Century-Thermostat-Controller-Germination-40-108Â°F/dp/B01I15S6OM [12] https://youtu.be/edtYDsMthC4?t=67 [13] https://youtu.be/nyqykZK2Ev4

wainstead 6y ago

> Judging vertical farming based on the performance of wheat is not valid. When I saw the test crop was wheat, I scrolled to see if there were any other crops, saw that there weren't, and abandoned the article because wheat has among the worst yields per area (in terms of kg of edible product per sq meters). I want to stress this point. Crops like wheat, rice, and corn are not suitable for vertical farming. No vertical farms today are growing these. And claiming “vertical farming does not save land” based on a single 1msq art installation makes a tenuous argument at best. And even worse, from the article: > When wheat is planted in the ground next to each other, instead of above, the sun provides free energy and the clouds free water. No, no, no, no. Water from precipitation is a fraction of the water needed in areas like the American central plains where the Ogallala Aquifer has been pumped out for decades. Irrigation is a must for growing staple crops almost anywhere. And water is increasingly in short supply.

Armisael16 6y ago
Why not corn? My understanding is that it’s one of the most efficient crops in calories/acre terms (which is presumably what you actually care about, not kg/acre).
- yazaddaruvala 6y ago
  My guess is that counterintuitively but unsurprisingly, you actually want to use crops that were previously inefficient to grow. Low yields per acre crops are more suitable to indoor vertical farming because of the benefit climate control, and lack of pests provides.
  - Armisael16 6y ago
    I don’t understand why those would preferentially help low yield crops more than high yield crops. That would be very surprising to me.
    - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
      My thoughts: If a crop is easy to grow, that means it’s able to handle: 1. Variable sunlight conditions; 2. Variable water conditions; 3. Handle bugs, viruses; and 4. Variable climate conditions. Low yield crops are problematic because they cannot handle variability. Using an indoor facility is equally expensive if you program the conditions to be variable or to be relatively strict. Additionally, a low yield crop is typically more expensive than a high yield crop. As such, you would rather program the indoor facility’s conditions to be relatively strict and grow a typically low yield crop, get significantly better yield and compete on price.

jbm 6y ago

Hey, I was hoping you could share some resources about this subject! I always have a hard time finding any useful information about hydroponics and would love to learn more.

bastawhiz 6y ago

> When I saw the test crop was wheat, I scrolled to see if there were any other crops, saw that there weren't, and abandoned the article because wheat has among the worst yields per area (in terms of kg of edible product per sq meters). Yes, but corn, soybeans, and wheat represent an overwhelming majority of agriculture (at least in the US). If the goal is to reduce energy use, it makes sense to focus on the things that we're making the most of. In 2013 we produced 354M tonnes of corn and 58M tonnes of wheat, and only 13M tonnes of tomatoes and and 3.6M tonnes of lettuce. The fact of the matter is that wheat—despite being low-yield—accounts for an enormously huge percentage of agriculture.