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Want to highlight the most upvoted comment on the article: > At the end, their goal is that MacOS is just iPadOS with Terminal and Xcode.

by cglong 6y ago

tacker2000 6y ago
Thats basically what their long term strategy is. It makes sense from a “normal user” point of view, dumbing down everything to meet the lowest common denominator. The real question is, where are all the hardcore coders like us doing to end up? I hope there probably will be a suitable alternative when that time comes.
- ladyanita22 6y ago
  Linux and windows
  - GeekyBear 6y ago
    Windows already moved its graphics drivers from kernel mode extensions to user mode processes years ago.
    - krageon 6y ago
      You can still create kernel extensions, there's just a process to get them approved. The requirements are a little more stringent than getting a signed driver, which makes sense as the permissions are higher.
rgovostes 6y ago
Being most-upvoted doesn’t mean there is any truth to it. The “principle of least privilege” is a cornerstone of developing secure software and if you view Apple’s new security features through this lens you can see what they are doing: sandboxing and translocation, moving input processing to isolated services, requiring permission before accessing privacy-sensitive APIs, preventing privilege escalation through inter-app debugging/tracing/code injection, etc. Code running in the kernel violates this concept and the only way to put up walls is to eject it to userland. And maybe having things like huge network file system implementations in the kernel wasn’t a great idea for system stability or security in the first place. macOS will continue to be locked down but Apple has consistently built “escape hatches” for tinkerers: System Integrity Protection can be disabled; all Macs including the M1 can boot non-Apple kernels[0]; the kernel can be built from source[1]. The iPhone security research device program was in response to complaints about iOS being too opaque, and was a significant reversal in Apple’s position in locking down its crown jewel OS. You can argue they don’t go far enough with those escape hatches---I sympathize, speaking as someone who publishes a kext that patches the kernel. I hate that holding certain kinds of entitlements makes a process much more difficult to debug. And they can always change their minds later. Orthogonal to least privilege is vetting that code is trusted, which is the root of fears over an App Store-only software distribution model, but most changes regarding code signatures can similarly be viewed through the lens of malware protections, given a sharp increase in the number of attacks targeting macOS. 0: https://twitter.com/XenoKovah/status/1339914714055368704 https://twitter.com/XenoKovah/status/1339914714055368704 1: https://kernelshaman.blogspot.com/2021/02/building-xnu-for-macos-112-intel-apple.html https://kernelshaman.blogspot.com/2021/02/building-xnu-for-m...

Want to highlight the most upvoted comment on the article: > At the end, their goal is that MacOS is just iPadOS with Terminal and Xcode.

by cglong 6y ago

Want to highlight the most upvoted comment on the article: > At the end, their goal is that MacOS is just iPadOS with Terminal and Xcode.

tacker2000 6y ago

Thats basically what their long term strategy is. It makes sense from a “normal user” point of view, dumbing down everything to meet the lowest common denominator. The real question is, where are all the hardcore coders like us doing to end up? I hope there probably will be a suitable alternative when that time comes.

ladyanita22 6y ago
Linux and windows
- GeekyBear 6y ago
  Windows already moved its graphics drivers from kernel mode extensions to user mode processes years ago.
  - krageon 6y ago
    You can still create kernel extensions, there's just a process to get them approved. The requirements are a little more stringent than getting a signed driver, which makes sense as the permissions are higher.

rgovostes 6y ago

Being most-upvoted doesn’t mean there is any truth to it. The “principle of least privilege” is a cornerstone of developing secure software and if you view Apple’s new security features through this lens you can see what they are doing: sandboxing and translocation, moving input processing to isolated services, requiring permission before accessing privacy-sensitive APIs, preventing privilege escalation through inter-app debugging/tracing/code injection, etc. Code running in the kernel violates this concept and the only way to put up walls is to eject it to userland. And maybe having things like huge network file system implementations in the kernel wasn’t a great idea for system stability or security in the first place. macOS will continue to be locked down but Apple has consistently built “escape hatches” for tinkerers: System Integrity Protection can be disabled; all Macs including the M1 can boot non-Apple kernels[0]; the kernel can be built from source[1]. The iPhone security research device program was in response to complaints about iOS being too opaque, and was a significant reversal in Apple’s position in locking down its crown jewel OS. You can argue they don’t go far enough with those escape hatches---I sympathize, speaking as someone who publishes a kext that patches the kernel. I hate that holding certain kinds of entitlements makes a process much more difficult to debug. And they can always change their minds later. Orthogonal to least privilege is vetting that code is trusted, which is the root of fears over an App Store-only software distribution model, but most changes regarding code signatures can similarly be viewed through the lens of malware protections, given a sharp increase in the number of attacks targeting macOS. 0: https://twitter.com/XenoKovah/status/1339914714055368704 https://twitter.com/XenoKovah/status/1339914714055368704 1: https://kernelshaman.blogspot.com/2021/02/building-xnu-for-macos-112-intel-apple.html https://kernelshaman.blogspot.com/2021/02/building-xnu-for-m...