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I think that the bitcoin mining companies that run in China have a pretty good handle on how to get very low cost electricity, and hydro doesn't produce the CO2
by jki275 6y ago
I think that the bitcoin mining companies that run in China have a pretty good handle on how to get very low cost electricity, and hydro doesn't produce the CO2 emissions you're so concerned about.
So what's your point?
- IshKebab 6y agoHis point is that crypto mining isn't using some carbon neutral electricity that was just lying around unused. If crypto minors didn't exist that hydro electricity would have been used for something useful. So by mining crypto unless you actually build extra hydro power stations for them you are 100% adding to CO2 emissions.
- jki275 6y agoI don't think that point is accurate. At best, it makes a ton of assumptions that aren't warranted.
- cbzbc 6y agoAs does the statement that because hydro dams are being used mining is not doing environmental damage.
- jki275 6y agoBut that’s not what I said. I said the amount of CO2 being generated was probably not as high as you might expect from a naive reading of the kWh consumed.
- cbzbc 6y agoSure, but to truly avoid all naive readings would be to analyse the total impact of constructing the hydro plant in such an out of the way place for the purpose of mining. There's an emissions cost to producing the equipment required to construct the hydro plant. There's an emissions cost associated with constructing the hydro plant. This is multiplied if you are building it in an area without heavy industry (no existing demand, remember?) - because you have to construct your own support infrastructure and road network to build and service the plant. Not to mention the impact of the now flooded 'wilderness' (which is highly likely to contain carbon sinks). Or the impact to forestation and vegetation downstream.
- jki275 6y agoAll of that may be true. But none of it invalidates my initial statement. You're arguing with a discussion that didn't happen.
- cbzbc 6y agoThe wider discussion (and this particular thread) was on the environmental cost caused by bitcoin.
- jki275 6y agoAnd I gave you some input on a specific portion of that. You then proceeded to excoriate me for not addressing everything in every discussion that has ever happened in your mind about bitcoin.
- etimberg 6y agoHydro dams actually incur significant greenhouse gas emissions especially during the initial fill where all the material that's now submerged rots and produces methane. https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/nov/06/hydropower-hydroelectricity-methane-clean-climate-change-study https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/nov/06...
- philjohn 6y agoIgnoring the masses of people who mine in their own homes - e.g. pool miners on places like nicehash.
- jki275 6y agoIf you're talking about bitcoin, most btc is mined in China by Bitmain and one other company.
- PragmaticPulp 6y agoRight, which is a major problem for the decentralized currency narrative. It also creates a massive incentive for market manipulation to continue keeping prices high enough for them to get ROI on the mining investment.
- jki275 6y agoYes, that's a huge issue for btc. BTC isn't really a decentralized cryptocurrency anymore. There are others that are.
- philjohn 6y agoNo, not bitcoin, other crypto currencies, including monero, eth etc.
- jki275 6y agoWhich is a quite different discussion.
- tobasq 6y agoHow many orders of magnitude in the Bitcoin CO2 footprint estimates do you think this vague theory can account for?