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LulzSec versus FBI (We Challenge You, NATO)
- TheAmazingIdiot 15y agoOk. The internet is getting interesting. We have Julian Assange leaking secrets from nearly every country and major organisation. National governments are toppling left and right, with the internet as the tool to gather and convene. We have Anonymous who generally wreaks havoc on whomever pokes that hornets nest. We have Chinese hackers (or hackers using Chinese servers) that are whittling away on European and US servers. And we now have LulzSec hacking and publicly insulting the FBI. What a weird world we live in.
- noibl 15y agoWe should civilize this internet thing before life gets any weirder. Nah: 1. Not so much 'leaking' as 'hoarding'... the dripfeed of leaks is mainly from the single cables dump (a non-renewable resource). Nearly every major organisation? I don't think so. 2. I'm guessing you mean Egypt, where the military has indeed appointed a new cabinet. Not sure that counts as 'toppling' but we'll see, come September. That accounts for the 'right', who's left? 3. Yes we have an organised collective of vigilante hckers exposing the hypocrisy and corruption of other hckers, much as has always been done. Two differences now: (a) national governments have started outsourcing to the second group more and also hyping the word 'cyber', leading to (b) the public has started to become mildly amused by these skirmishes. 4. Interesting configuration of actors there. For those in Europe or America, the interesting part of alleged Chinese hacking is the unwanted free transfer of lucrative IP, which is to say trade secrets. But the US government already has behind-the-scenes access to a vast amount of global internet traffic so any large scale spying effort on its part wouldn't need to be so overt as would that of, say, China. And China is certainly not alone in facing these allegations.[1] 5. Aaand back to 3. [1] http://www.dbune.com/news/business/3370-france-accused-of-being-europes-worst-industrial-spy.html http://www.dbune.com/news/business/3370-france-accused-of-be...
- redthrowaway 15y ago2. Don't forget Tunisia, whose revolution was sparked at least in part by the revelations about Ben Ali in the State Dept cables, or the swing in election results in Kenya back in the stone ages from one of WikiLeaks' first releases, or the "Twitter Revolutions" (overblown though that title may be) throughout the rest of the middle east... 4. The NSA has taps on the major telecom hubs, and is actively sorting through reams of data to gather intelligence. I can't find the links right now, but the story was on HN about the project's creator and his misgivings about how it was eventually used. Yeah, China's bad, but just wait until the US finds itself toppled from economic primacy and see what information they start pulling out then.
- noibl 15y agoShame on me; I did forget Tunisia. I don't see anything to do with the internet in the events in Yemen, Syria and Bahrain. The mobile network has played some part in Libya though. In any case, none of these governments have been 'toppled' and especially have not been replaced by democratic ones. The fiber tap story, for reference: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2348156 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2348156
- kmfrk 15y agoI really dread what is going to happen, by the time Anonymous or someone else start setting their sights in Israel/Palestine. It can only be a matter of time before it happens.
- redthrowaway 15y agoDread it how? What outcome do you fear?
- pbjorklund 15y agoWell, thats a hornest nests with some bad queen bees armed with more dangerous stuff than stingers.
- kmfrk 15y agoNow is the best time ever to be a security consultant. Also, if there were a time that consumers learned to be wary of the information they hand out in public or private and how they protected it, now is the time. If LastPass has an affiliate service, it's quite possible that some quick bucks could be made from this.
- woodall 15y agoWhen, or if, any LulzSec member get caught. Well, I don't want to think about it. It's also interesting that they are using BitCoin. Say they try to cash out a block chain donated/given to them that was mined by a known IP; honeypot. Then whom ever sits in wait and watches the log waiting for that chain to get cashed out via a fiat exchange. Records are subpoenaed and it is determined who cashed out that block at what IP/PayPal/ect? I don't know if thats possible so don't trust me.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- getsat 15y agoThis is why you have a guy in Afghanistan cash it out and put the balance onto your foreign, anonymous Paypal/Liberty Reserve account. He takes a cut, but that's life. He has no idea who you are and you only access the account through compromised Windows machines in foreign countries (which you wipe when you're done).
- saulrh 15y agoIP is probably useless; these people know what they're doing, and Tor, proxies, and public wifi plus a cantenna can make you pretty anonymous. As for the bitcoins themselves, I believe that they'd be instantly anonymized by putting them through one or more bitcoin transaction before they reach real life. The FBI would have a very, very difficult time following the real-life "oh, I got them from person X" tree back to lulzsec, especially if lulzsec transactioned the bitcoins to the right person the first time around.
- MostAwesomeDude 15y agoAdditionally, people can always create new wallet IDs and self-launder the money, assuming they aren't using the Bitcoin Laundry (http://bitcoinlaundry.com/ http://bitcoinlaundry.com/) to do it for them.
- woodall 15y ago
- rdtsc 15y ago> Karim, a member of an FBI-related website, was willing to give us money and inside info in order to destroy his opponents in the whitehat world. It is worth highlighting that there is a whole ecosystem of bottom feeders in the world of government contracted 'whitehat hackers' & 'consultants'. They know as much about security as one can pick from 'Hacking Exposed IV' kind of book from your local book store. Some of them are just fakes who just have the right connection within the agencies (many are just ex-employees, friends of friends, college buddies and cousins). Then they need to know how to navigate the red tape of proposals and bids. So this all amounts to a lot of waste, stupidity (at best) and down-right maliciousness (at worst). We saw some of this with HBGary and this Karim guy, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. If you have the right connections and know how to handle the red-tape (you might have to hire a full-time professional for it), you can make quite a bit of money bullshitting the govt and selling them crap.
- plainOldText 15y agoThis is one of the reasons I don't want the government to increase the control over the internet. We sometimes get the illusion that it's all pure and butterflies, when in fact even whitehats/government agencies conduct illegal activities on the web abusing their powers. Better leave it to the people; we can handle it just the way it is.
- cheez 15y agoThe first step is an independent, free currency.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- knowtheory 15y agoyeah but the fundamental problem here is not whether the government is doing something or not. The issue is transparency and accountability. There are corporate entities who are wasting their money on nepotism, graft, and efforts that are doomed to fail in the "planning" stages too. The difference is that the way that consumers pay for it is hidden in the cost of whatever products the company produces. We can make government behavior suck less if we actually provide better transparency and metrics for success.
- sbierwagen 15y agoMirror of the smaller file, (17 KiB) for when mediafire takes it down: http://bbot.org/Fuck%20FBI%20Friday%20(FFF).rar http://bbot.org/Fuck%20FBI%20Friday%20(FFF).rar The IRC log is really damaging... assuming, of course, that Lulzsec hasn't embellished it. EDIT: The archive is actually a ZIP file, with a RAR extension, which makes some decompressors unhappy. A copy with the correct extension: http://bbot.org/fff.zip http://bbot.org/fff.zip
- redthrowaway 15y agoI'm getting a corrupted archive error... is there a password?
- sbierwagen 15y agoI didn't add one, so nope. I just downloaded it again from myself and the new copy worked fine. EDIT: Lulzsec created a ZIP file, but changed the file extension to RAR. Doh ho ho, those wacky guys. Your unrar tool is apparently more fragile than WinRAR, which decompressed it without even throwing an error. Since I want to preserve the filename, I made a copy: http://bbot.org/fff.zip http://bbot.org/fff.zip
- redthrowaway 15y agoThanks, I appreciate it. UnRarX does appear to be fragile.
- comex 15y agoOn a tangent-- the PBS NewsHour's bemused reaction to LulzSec hacking them (which they discussed in a segment on hacking) is the best I've ever seen an organization take something like that. The FBI is a much worthier target.
- dmix 15y agoThe video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH92TjV4ZM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH92TjV4ZM
- Mithrandir 15y agoHere's the IRC log: http://pastebay.com/125179 http://pastebay.com/125179 and a phone conversation: http://lulzsecurity.com/releases/Unveillance_Secret_Conference.mp3 http://lulzsecurity.com/releases/Unveillance_Secret_Conferen... Very interesting conversations. They also had a "warmup" with the Nintendo servers: http://pastebay.com/125180 http://pastebay.com/125180 The emails consist of LinkedIn confirmations and "secret data" (PowerPoints w/ PDFs) about various smallish tech/data companies. Sample PDFs in case anyone is interested: Apptap (formerly Mplayit): http://www.2shared.com/document/1Q_QkBxY/apptap-execsummary_final_22nov.html http://www.2shared.com/document/1Q_QkBxY/apptap-execsummary_... BlackRridge Technology: http://www.2shared.com/document/csuHua1e/Blackbridge_Investor_Deck_-_11.html http://www.2shared.com/document/csuHua1e/Blackbridge_Investo... CloudFusion Cconnect Business Plan: http://www.2shared.com/document/yi6bYjDC/cConnect_Business_Plan_-_Prese.html http://www.2shared.com/document/yi6bYjDC/cConnect_Business_P... Gatekeeper Security Investor Presentation: http://www.2shared.com/document/Ec3FaP0p/Gatekeeper_Investor_Presentati.html http://www.2shared.com/document/Ec3FaP0p/Gatekeeper_Investor... videoNEXT Network Solutions Inc. Corporate Qualifications and Capabilities: http://www.2shared.com/document/9OSbAgDM/videoNEXT_Investor_Briefing_2-.html http://www.2shared.com/document/9OSbAgDM/videoNEXT_Investor_...
- Mithrandir 15y agoTwo more interesting PDFs: DHS Proposal/Comprehensive Understanding of Malicious Overlay Networks: http://www.2shared.com/document/5tCGtYKK/Lee_DHS1102_TTA6.html http://www.2shared.com/document/5tCGtYKK/Lee_DHS1102_TTA6.ht... Unveillance Federal Report: http://www.2shared.com/document/7SJljKpc/Unveillance_-_Fed_10-2-10.html http://www.2shared.com/document/7SJljKpc/Unveillance_-_Fed_1...
- xdef 15y agoThis is a huge challenge for the FBI and it will be interesting to see how they handle and crack this case. I do hope they can find these bastards and put them behind bars for a very long time indeed. The FBI should start with the a court order and to get the domain registrar to reveal the identity of the person/organization, that registered the domain name lulzsecurity.com which happens to be registered in the Bahamas and can be viewed at : (http://whois.domaintools.com/lulzsecurity.com http://whois.domaintools.com/lulzsecurity.com) as c/o lulzsecurity.com N4892 Nassau Bahamas Tel: +852.81720004 Of course, most likely they used an alias/fake identity. But the hackers had to have left a financial trail when they purchased and registered that domain name, or that phone number, PO Box.
- marcamillion 15y agoHoly Crap! Yes, these guys have done it now. Goodbye anonymous internet - as we know it today. As much as I love freedom of speech and 'David' taking on 'Goliath' as the next guy, this is seriously bordering on Terrorism. This seems so unprovoked. All this is doing is challenging the government to regulate the internet. This does nobody any good. Now it seems Anon has gone too far, and has crossed over into 'psycho' territory. Once you start attacking the state, there is no coming back from that. I am sorry, but this isn't a war that Anonymous can win.
- paganel 15y ago> This seems so unprovoked. Constant citizens' surveillance and infringing of their rights by "righteous" Governments is also unprovoked.
- deepinit 15y agoExactly:). And in my mind criminals are those that plot killings, and break basic constitutional right( haha - and citizens let them... In fact they are by mean of real democracy not an citizens but idiots-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_(Athenian_democracy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_(Athenian_democracy) ).
- nakkiel 15y agoGiven that Anonymous are widely (but not exclusively) after fame, I wouldn't be that quick to attribute this act to them even though there are large similarities. In all honesty, all this is doing is challenging people who elect governments to regulate them. This now proven; government are not just bordering terrorism, they are engaging in terrorist acts through contracting fake security firms (which are then easy to point at when uncovered). THIS does nobody any good.
- intended 15y agoWtf? it wasn't even the people you are accusing who did this. It says so right on top, in the link itself. how are we getting weird comments where people didnt even read the article on HN? Astroturfing ? (I am aware that lulsec is supposedly linked with Anon, but they aren't the same)
- chrisjsmith 15y agoThis is hilarious. The main important point is that it makes a mockery of the security snake-oil salesmen and the government sponsored investigation agencies. It also demonstrates that legislation is powerless over the internet (something I think everyone quietly realises but doesn't want to admit). They've let the cat out of the bag and now it won't go back in. The Internet is an uncontrollable, resiliant, self-aware monster with a good self-preservation instinct. It's fighting back against those who wish to control it.
- weego 15y agoI'm not sure it really proves any of those things at all, but it does prove that no matter how good you are at something, chances are you will come across someone better than you at some point in your life. When you thing is security and the other person is feeling malicious I guess it can be an ugly outcome.
- chrisjsmith 15y agoIt's not about being quantifiably better - it's about perception. Security is wholly percieved. It doesn't actually exist.
- joe24pack 15y agookay, I'll bite, would you care to explain how security does not exist?
- wnight 15y agoSecure vs who? With what budget? Are you content with achieving 'security' by shredding the server or do you plan to hook it up to a network?
- joe24pack 15y agoSo security is relative compared to a threat. That's a assumption that any thoughtful person can make. Yes, the resources available to you will greatly affect your ability to achieve a particular level of security. Just because you connect your server to a network does not mean that the security of your server disappears. Whatever level of security you've managed to achieve is still there. It just may be that the attackers you face are able to overcome your security measures. If by security one means absolute security against all threats present and future, then yes security is not only illusory but also meaningless.
- dublinclontarf 15y agoKind of funny that they have a bitcoin donation address, and have recieved about $300USD worth of donations already.
- shareme 15y agoLets see : 1. Wiretaps 2. Taping Telecoms 3. Taping satellites and yet that still does not educate the FBI, CIA, NSA into having better computer specialists? That is the disadvantage of relying upon political back deals to do real work in that you get an illusion rather than reality. Note, US military for years has been advocating taking service men and women and retraining them for a counter computer security role to replace the independent whitehats. Would it be too much to assume that the profits might be great enough at risk that some whitehats might be involved with this LulzSec effort?
- woodall 15y ago>Note, US military for years has been advocating taking service men and women and retraining them for a counter computer security role to replace the independent whitehats. That is already an MOS.
- chrisjsmith 15y ago> Note, US military for years has been advocating taking service men and women and retraining them for a counter computer security role to replace the independent whitehats. You can't give them a process guide or a manual for this. It's something that requires understanding. It's idiocy. I've worked with "DoD certified NT4 administrators" (retrained administrative worker bees) who didn't know arse from elbow. I walked straight onto one of their "certified configuration" exchange boxes via IIS and read classified emails over HTTP from the mail spool folder... That got me a promotion back then in '99 but it'd probably get me shot now.
- derrida 15y agoLulzsec.com registered at Dreamhost (check whois). Stupid mistake? Diversion? Domain squatters?